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#101 Dragofer

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 10:50 AM

Yes, you would only need a decent UV map in place for simple texturing like apllying a generic material to it, say a clay surface, or stone surface.

Thanks, your words on making a unique texture for a model make good sense (basically anything inside the "others" folder of the texture browser). What I don't understand though, as someone who never got into modelling programs, is why one doesn't select the model and right-click -> "apply texture" with generic materials and trims like in DR, as the next-best solution if someone sends in a plain mesh with no UV map.

I remember Springheel saying it's best to have fewer textures loaded per model. The problem with using just one generic material could be that you don't get much detail in, but some of them come with inbuilt trims (like rtable02) and maybe an occasional model that has both a generic and a trim texture on it will be fine. This reminds me that most of this technical stuff, like vertex painting and bumpmaps, is beyond me... especially that engine development thread

Edited by Dragofer, 06 April 2015 - 11:05 AM.


#102 Gestas

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 10:00 PM

 Applying textures in editor is easy because you are mainly putting them on a flat surface like a wall or floor.

 

 On models you need to create a seam to split the model and unwrap it. Then if it is round like a pot it can distort a lot unwrapping, so custom textures are best to decrease visual distortion. If unwrapped well you can apply a generic texture and not notice the distortion much.

 Basic uv tools in 3d program can get close on some surfaces but still require manual work. If you unwrap a tin can you need to planar map the top and bottom (like texture in editor) but you need to cylindrical map the outside of can. Then move the different parts around. If you can see inside of can it gets more complicated.



#103 RPGista

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 12:30 AM

Yeah, what gesta is saying is that darkradiant can edit textures well on regular shapes, even on patches with some manual labour, but Im fairly convinced you cant aplly materials to static models inside it (you can only change skins already set up by the modeler), and even if you could, you would need to unwrapp the models in ways that simply are not there. Even if you could change materials on models, you still need to set up the unwrapped surfaces beforehand, and thats ehat the modeler has got to do.

#104 Springheel

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 09:29 AM

I remember Springheel saying it's best to have fewer textures loaded per model. The problem with using just one generic material could be that you don't get much detail in, but some of them come with inbuilt trims (like rtable02) and maybe an occasional model that has both a generic and a trim texture on it will be fine. T

 

 

You can do a great deal with the textures that already exist.  Everything on this new streetlamp model uses generic textures that already existed, for example.  I think you'd be hard pressed to describe it as lacking detail.

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#105 Dragofer

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 07:12 AM

This way of texturing in Blender sounds like a lot of hassle. In DarkRadiant, let's say there's a cylindrical patch shaped like a vase - those cylinders are like long sheets that have been bent into circles. You can apply a texture and adjust it with the surface inspector, for example with "fit" to get rid of a seam.

 

If wanted you could use the texture tool to choose which parts of the texture are used where, which is a form of UV-mapping (cylindrical? Brush-to-patch pastes would be planar). In the end you could quickly texture the vase this way in DR. Aren't there similar tools in Blender?


Edited by Dragofer, 09 April 2015 - 07:21 AM.


#106 Springheel

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 07:32 AM

Cylinders, cubes and spheres are the easiest things to texture.  As soon as you start getting more complicated than that, the required effort goes up exponentially.



#107 Noordung

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 03:11 PM

This way of texturing in Blender sounds like a lot of hassle. In DarkRadiant, let's say there's a cylindrical patch shaped like a vase - those cylinders are like long sheets that have been bent into circles. You can apply a texture and adjust it with the surface inspector, for example with "fit" to get rid of a seam.

 

If wanted you could use the texture tool to choose which parts of the texture are used where, which is a form of UV-mapping (cylindrical? Brush-to-patch pastes would be planar). In the end you could quickly texture the vase this way in DR. Aren't there similar tools in Blender?

You can smart unwrap in blender and you start painting model. It is very easy. But It wont work with all textures. I mean if you are making wall like textures seams will be disaster, if you are making street lamp with metal texture it could be made good.

But for more complicated models and textures you unwrap it on hand and that one takes more time.


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#108 Soul Tear

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 06:41 AM

Does there exist any library for models as Thief Repository? Or all new models are added to main tdm_models##.pk4? 
 
If I made a new model, then where to put it? I understand that I can leave a link in this thread, but if a couple of people download it, it's not effective and other people just may not know about it.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


#109 nbohr1more

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 01:02 PM

We currently do not have a public repo site but if a team member downloads the file and uploads it to the SVN it will be available for mappers.

Probably best to PM a team member if you want that done (and nag them). You could also upload them to Moddb as Add-ons.


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#110 Soul Tear

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 09:33 AM

I found about a dozen free hi-poly (500к-1кк faces) statues of women and animals. I want to try to adapt them for TDM. I will be guided by TDM Aphrodite, she has 4562 faces.
 
For some statues the number of faces can be reduced to 3000, but others may have to be about 7000, otherwise they will get very ugly.
I can try different numbers and tested it on my map. But it should be beautiful anyway.
 
Should I do LoD? And how many polygons should include LoDs and shadow meshes for statues? If I'm not mistaken shadow for Aphrodite - 865 polys.

The statue on the the shot include 7500 polys (original 60k). If it is critical, I think it is possible to reduce the polys in certain parts (feet, bowl, maybe hair).
 
 

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Edited by Soul Tear, 16 February 2017 - 09:35 AM.

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#111 nbohr1more

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 09:54 AM

7500 isn't too bad. Our guideline is roughly 5000 but we have models that go over that.

We would request that you create a shadow mesh at 1000 or less polys (ideally less than 500).

 

LoD models is nice if possible, our system has 7 levels of LoD including the highest detail and "no model"

So you could make up to 5 LoD models with progressively less detail but 2 low-poly LoD stages would

be splendid. It's up to you if you want to offer any LoD at all or go crazy and give us full 7-stage entities. :)


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#112 Judith

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 10:13 AM

Not sure what you mean by "found", but remember, if this is copyrighted or otherwise paid content, you can't include it in TDM. Those are really cool if you made them yourself though.



#113 Springheel

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 12:54 PM

Three levels of LOD is probably enough...a high poly (<10000) for ranges of about 200 units, and a low poly (<1000) one for ranges of >1000 would be fine.  A low poly shadowmesh is the most important thing for performance, though you can get away with not having one for the high-poly version.  You can check out the St. Lucia statue entity for examples.



#114 Obsttorte

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 12:54 PM

As nbohr said, two lower detailed models should suffice. If it makes use of LOD people with low end rigs can use the lod setting to get the performance right if the tris count is causing issues.

 

As far as my knowledge goes this is however not neccessarely the case with idtech4. It can handle quiet some tris. I guess it is more important to keep the tris count on the shadow and collision meshes as low as possible to get performance reasonable. And the lowest LOD stage might not need a shadowmesh at all as it is common use that far away objects don't cast shadows.

 

I think the left image is St. Lucia right, and the right one the statue you are referring to?! It is quiet nice indeed, but has some ugly edges on the arms for example. May be caused by the screenshot resolution, though.


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#115 Judith

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 05:16 AM

Okay, so you added "free", that's good. Just to be on the safe side, check their EULA or CC license for permission to be distributed in packages, and on what terms. TDM doesn't have locked packages (like UE .upk packages), anyone can open them and use what's inside. Some authors may not allow that kind of distribution.



#116 Soul Tear

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 06:58 AM

 

 

Not sure what you mean by "found", but remember, if this is copyrighted or otherwise paid content, you can't include it in TDM. Those are really cool if you made them yourself though.

 

This is free stuff (archive3d.net). Can be used for any purposes, including commercial. By the way, one of these statues have long been in TDM: the woman with two pitchers (it is also present in Thief 2014). As a rule, most of these models have different issues, they are unfinished and without textures. This is debris from a business perspective. But for us it is the one of good ways to get some new models I think.
 

 

 

May be caused by the screenshot resolution, though.

 

Yes, but in any case it is an unfinished version.


Edited by Soul Tear, 17 February 2017 - 06:58 AM.


#117 Judith

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 07:23 AM

I didn't find any TOS on their site, just a very general disclaimer when I tried to download one of those models. Also, no additional info in the attached text file. Which is kinda shady but... Well, let's see what others have to say on that.

 

As you see, I'm generally very cautious about doing anything with sb else's work. Typically, I don't like when someone does something with my work, without letting me know first or acknowledging authorship (which is very common in photography).



#118 Springheel

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 10:53 AM

one of these statues have long been in TDM: the woman with two pitchers (it is also present in Thief 2014).

 

 

Which one is that?  I can't picture it.



#119 Epifire

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 04:01 PM

 

 

 

 

This is free stuff (archive3d.net). Can be used for any purposes, including commercial. By the way, one of these statues have long been in TDM: the woman with two pitchers (it is also present in Thief 2014). As a rule, most of these models have different issues, they are unfinished and without textures. This is debris from a business perspective. But for us it is the one of good ways to get some new models I think.
 

 

 

Yes, but in any case it is an unfinished version.

 

 

If you need any help with retopo on those I might be able to help with getting your target poly values. Softimage and Topogun have some nice features to aid that. ALSO, if you're seeing some highres models (like a 1m polys or more) I can probably finish it up and get you a lowres that's textured. As long as I have the highres anyway. PM me if you're interested.  ;)


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#120 Soul Tear

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 06:48 AM

 

Which one is that?  I can't picture it.

 

https://www.archive3...ad&id=9c799b22#



#121 Springheel

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 11:44 AM

I don't recall seeing that one in the mod.  Maybe a mapper added it to a specific mission?  Where did you see it in TDM?



#122 Soul Tear

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 09:21 AM

Maybe. I do not remember.



#123 Soul Tear

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:16 AM

I didn't find any TOS on their site, just a very general disclaimer when I tried to download one of those models. Also, no additional info in the attached text file. Which is kinda shady but... Well, let's see what others have to say on that.

 

As you see, I'm generally very cautious about doing anything with sb else's work. Typically, I don't like when someone does something with my work, without letting me know first or acknowledging authorship (which is very common in photography).

 

Why are you worried about? The topology of these meshes changed beyond recognition (via Decimate modifier in Blender). I do not think there is a way to prove anything.


#124 Judith

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:41 AM

So, these models are from other games but modified? Well, if you want to rip off other authors, do it at your own risk. People from the industry play games and mods too. Someone will notice it eventually, and will be furious about it – and they will take action to protect their assets. Besides, it's just rude and dumb. Want to have something? Make it yourself or ask someone else to do it. As for putting it in Dark Mod model libraries, that's a hell no.


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#125 grayman

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 12:00 PM

The only model I can find in TDM that's similar to "the woman with two pitchers" is "Aphrodite" in the statues folder. I used that in In the North, as it was a standard TDM model at the time.






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