Thanks for all the replies so far.
(I answered this just so I could say the word "frobability" smile.gif )
...that would be frob-babble.
(Just couldn't resist...)
In any event; you cannot stop mappers doing it any which way they like because they can change the property or even type definitions from the default or create new ones fairly easily exclusively for their map just as they could in Thief.
I see that. Technically anything can be turned into a func_static.
I have to admit I only played very few Fan Missions, so I don't know what people are used to expect right now.
But IIRC in the original games these nice small crates were always frobs (I can say "frob", can I?).
@plasticman: I hear what you say about standards so players always know what to expect but my own view . . . is either architectural decoration else maybe opened by a lever or switch elsewhere.
I wish I had the words to make myself clearer on that(not a native speaker). I see when something is frobable it isn't necessarily meant to be used in a mission. I referred to concepts a player uses (without knowing about them) to navigate in and interact with the game world.
I didn't compare the two pallets in detail, but to me as a player they looked pretty much the same. The visual representation is the major way to identify objects in the game world (allthough sounds are also vital to a thief-like game). When you get used to such a world, you learn to connect the objects with their charecteristics.
It doesn't have to be realistic. If you knock down a builder guard for example you can pick up his hammer and do things with it, but you cannot use it as a meele weapon. It's an easy concept you get used to and forget about. Same with doors (in OMs). The bad looking ones can't be opened, the metal ones can't be smashed.
So the rule "if it highlights, it can be used" is sure simple and easy to learn. But it requires the player to activily go to a certain object and check it's characteristics. The visual representation of an object becomes neglected, you can no longer determine the behaviour of things by just looking at them.
In case of two identical looking pallets it leads you to the question "But why me can pick up the one but not them other one?" -- and the answer to the question is clearly outside the game world (immersion break).
If small crates always highlighted then in mappers would be unable to use them as decoration in places where they don't want the player to climb up.
That was my point. When I play a mission I don't want to be reminded of what the builder wants me to do and what not. I'm not much in relegion anyways. Though I admit the demo's map-layout sure is heavenly.
On topic: I'm not asking the team to simply make two sorts of small crates: one that can be frobbed and another one with a different texture that usually will be used as a static object. I'm just asking to consider it for the reasons stated.
Once the mod is released people will be able to do with it whatever they like anyhow. But maybe there could be something like general mission design guidelines, so players won't suffer from incoherencies between or in missions.
It's as yet unrealistic, and there are trade-offs in design and development. A map where everything is moveable/destructable would be great, but it would be a monumental task and a slide show if it worked at all, and then you'd hear the non-stop chorus of bitching from your downloaders.
Is that true? Are there technical limits for movables or frobables? I know there's an entity limit, but do they hit performance as long as they remain untouched?
Oh yes: I just found out that you can use carryables to cast a shadow on yourself and avoid guards. You an also use them to push guards out of the way.
I tried to cover the unextinctable light near the "unpassable" front guard with the pallet. Not high enaugh, but maybe it works when I stack some planks on it.
I agree realistic object manipulation opens up new ways in gameplay. But it also introduces new exploits. The pallet can be used to climb up to locations, that look like I wasn't supposed to be there.
I like that, but it requires extra-suspicious beta-testers who try really hard to break the map.
...that damn barrel, a rat came up and bumped it along nicely! Clearly there are lots of adjustments to be made.
Simply call them Power-Rodents!