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It's official! I got the Green Light!


pataran

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Hey guys, I finally called ransom group and got the rights to use their purchased textures with dark mod!

Here's the agreement:

 

Ransom Group hereby grants Dark Mod(a free modification) the rights to use Ransom groups purchased textures as they wish for its Dark Radiant and its corresponding texture libraries for mod level creation under permission from the purchaser "pataran"with the understanding that no reselling provisions are granted in any respect to our textures or intellectual property.

Regards,

Tim Ransom

 

Tim Ransom

 

President

 

The Ransom Group

 

3674 Canada Road

 

Lakeland, TN 38002

 

phone: 901 383 1200

 

fax: 901 383 1035

 

ransomgroup.com

 

tim@ransomgroup.com

 

Also guys, as a side note you cannot take these textures out of Dark Mod because they are confined to this mod, unless of course, you are the purchaser.

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Also guys, as a side note you cannot take these textures out of Dark Mod because they are confined to this mod, unless of course, you are the purchaser.

So we should add a message to Darkmod users that they should not use them for other things than the mod? Or should the files be locked somehow so they cannot be used for anything else?

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Cool! :) That's certainly good news. :)

 

I sent them a mail asking for confirmation and also on details that might apply. I hope you don't mind me doing this, but since this is always a sensitive issue and can cause a lot of problems I'd rather double check. Before we can add those textures to the repository we should create a list of the filenames (as used in the mod), so we can track them and make people aware that those are commercial textures.

Gerhard

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So we should add a message to Darkmod users that they should not use them for other things than the mod? Or should the files be locked somehow so they cannot be used for anything else?

 

Obviously it's technical impossible to "lock" them in any way so that they can not be used for other purposes. The only thing we can do is, to add the permission to our redistribution notes, and a list of the filenames of those textures that we are using so that poeple are aware that those are commercial textures.

Gerhard

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Are they aware that the Dark Mod is primarily a toolkit for end users to create (and distribute) their own maps? It would be worthwhile checking this because there is a possibility that they may think "Mod" means a released mission or campaign with a fixed set of used textures, rather than a toolkit full of textures that other mappers can use.

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Are they aware that the Dark Mod is primarily a toolkit for end users to create (and distribute) their own maps? It would be worthwhile checking this because there is a possibility that they may think "Mod" means a released mission or campaign with a fixed set of used textures, rather than a toolkit full of textures that other mappers can use.

 

But the other mappers are not redistributing the textures - they just distribute a text file (the map) which says "use the texture file with that name". The player has to download the mod, and the mod then contains these textures. And since we distribute the mod, we would be the ones to distribute the textures.

 

(I am not sure what happens if someone wants to put the TDM v1.0.exe on a magazin DVD, tho.)

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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But the other mappers are not redistributing the textures - they just distribute a text file (the map) which says "use the texture file with that name". The player has to download the mod, and the mod then contains these textures. And since we distribute the mod, we would be the ones to distribute the textures.

 

Yes, that's true. Mappers might, however, assume that they could modify any texture in the mod in order to produce a new texture for their own map, and presumably this would no longer be allowed for the purchased textures. I can see this being rather difficult to enforce.

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Yes, that's true. Mappers might, however, assume that they could modify any texture in the mod in order to produce a new texture for their own map, and presumably this would no longer be allowed for the purchased textures. I can see this being rather difficult to enforce.

 

According to the agreement, you can't modify the textures to sell as a commercial or competitive product. I personally talked to the guy on the phone. He said it is ok to use the textures for ANYONE who is using them for dark mod and its corresponding "texture libraries". So I think you guys have free reign to do what you please as long as you guys keep it in Dark mod and try not to profit off it. That was the owners real concern, the profit part, not really the free distribution for the tool kit.

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As for the user taking the textures and using them for other things, I don't think there is ever a solution for that, even for professional game licensees, people will do what they want to do it they really wanted to take the textures. That is really not our fault or blame if someone rips the textures because it can be done in any game or mod, it happens all the time and I'm quite sure that texture artists are aware of this. As long as its clear for "Us" to properly use them, we shouldn't get repercussions at all. As for the images themselves, the majority of them each come with a corresponding greyscale image. I was never quite sure how to use them though because I never textured before.

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Are they aware that the Dark Mod is primarily a toolkit for end users to create (and distribute) their own maps? It would be worthwhile checking this because there is a possibility that they may think "Mod" means a released mission or campaign with a fixed set of used textures, rather than a toolkit full of textures that other mappers can use.

 

"Are they aware that the Dark Mod is primarily a toolkit for end users to create (and distribute) their own maps?"

 

Yes, I fully explained this to them

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According to the agreement, you can't modify the textures to sell as a commercial or competitive product. I personally talked to the guy on the phone. He said it is ok to use the textures for ANYONE who is using them for dark mod and its corresponding "texture libraries". So I think you guys have free reign to do what you please as long as you guys keep it in Dark mod and try not to profit off it. That was the owners real concern, the profit part, not really the free distribution for the tool kit.

 

Yeah, that sounds sensible and thanx to both you (for taking the time and the money!) and for the artist to give permission :)

 

Have you bought their entire collection? :o

 

As for the greyscale images, yes, that would be the heightmaps, D3 also has an internal "make normal map from heightmap" command one can use directly in the shader, but I think it would be better to create the normal yourself. That way you have more control over it :)

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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Yeah, that sounds sensible and thanx to both you (for taking the time and the money!) and for the artist to give permission :)

 

Have you bought their entire collection? :o

 

As for the greyscale images, yes, that would be the heightmaps, D3 also has an internal "make normal map from heightmap" command one can use directly in the shader, but I think it would be better to create the normal yourself. That way you have more control over it :)

 

I bought 10 packs from them, each containing around 10-20 textures each. I have wood, european fancy tiles, a set of marble, a brick set, a cobblestone set,a set of skies, a rug set, and a set for plaster. Even with my low textures skills they still look 2x as good as our most of our default textures.

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"Are they aware that the Dark Mod is primarily a toolkit for end users to create (and distribute) their own maps?"

 

Yes, I fully explained this to them

 

Did you also raise the issue of TDM being put on DVDs (which already happened with Thief's Den)?

 

On the other hand, that might be seen just as a different way of distribution, even though a magazin profits indirectly from it, it's not their business model to sell the textures as such. IMO it would be the same category if a hoster charges per download, independent of the content.

Gerhard

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I bought 10 packs from them, each containing around 10-20 textures each. I have wood, european fancy tiles, a set of marble, a brick set, a cobblestone set,a set of skies, a rug set, and a set for plaster. Even with my low textures skills they still look 2x as good as our most of our default textures.

 

Looking good is one thing, but Spring raised the issue that the hard part is creating normalmaps. If the textures are just that and only looking good, it is not enough to put them in the mod, because they will look bad without the maps.

Gerhard

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From what I saw, the textures look like they were taken from many of the same places we already go for textures. Good photoreference images for diffusemaps are not hard to find. Hell, we were given four or five CDs full of "professional" textures a few years ago, remember? It's making good normalmaps that takes all the time; the usefulness of these particular textures will come down to how good the heightmaps are. If they're just greyscale versions of the diffusemap, then that saves us very little time.

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From what I saw, the textures look like they were taken from many of the same places we already go for textures. Good photoreference images for diffusemaps are not hard to find. Hell, we were given four or five CDs full of "professional" textures a few years ago, remember? It's making good normalmaps that takes all the time; the usefulness of these particular textures will come down to how good the heightmaps are. If they're just greyscale versions of the diffusemap, then that saves us very little time.

 

Well from my experience, even quick rushing the textures looks FAR better than nearly all the textures I've used from St. Lucia, I really don't think you guys have really tried them yet. The difference especially in the tiles and marble is huge. I don't get all the doubt, the textures nearly give off a gears of war 2 level of graphics when applied. I've tested alot and they are definetly not the same level of quality as most of the free sites or professional textures you guys used. As for the taken images, unless you were eyeing the textures on the pdf's from the site and comparing, its hard to say if they are really the same textures from other sites. The thing is, there are plenty of brick, tile, marble, and wood patterns that will always look similiar in when viewed just in the browser. The greyscaled seem pretty detailed to me, with dark for cracks and lighter hues for pocket marks and fine details. No offense, but if you were "given" all those textures for free five years ago are you even sure they are professional textures? To me most are average and flat.

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pataran, we certainly need lots of textures, esp. high quality ones. And having good diffuses is already a step ahead from not having them.

 

We certainly appreciate your work and contribution (despite all the "yeah but what if" talk above).

 

So, lets bring them in-game. How far have you gotten with them?

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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Yes, deffinately a good resource and nice to know they OK'ed it. That was my biggest concern.

 

But what everyone else says is correct too. We are at the point of trying to fine tune as much as possible, part of that is weeding out the bad textures. We all know they exist, there is a thread specifically about that issue.

 

I think the way to go about this is to not commit them all, but first to test them, possibly have several people test them out. Then vote on which ones to include. Decide which ones need better hieght/normal maps and improve them BEFORE commit.

 

Then we don't add to the problem of removing them because only the best have been included.

Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

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pataran, we certainly need lots of textures, esp. high quality ones. And having good diffuses is already a step ahead from not having them.

 

We certainly appreciate your work and contribution (despite all the "yeah but what if" talk above).

 

So, lets bring them in-game. How far have you gotten with them?

 

So far I've only been added textures as need for the HUGE map I'm working on. I have only about 7-8 in game right now and they seem fine. They def need formatting and fine tuning because I'm pretty clueless at it. But as you've seen on some shots some look really nice in game. Many have a cool 3d effect and the only thing I gotta do to fix some of it is to get rid of the spec maps. But yeah, been busy mapping so I haven't really formated them correctly etc, I did just enough to see some in game. The only bad textures or less quality ones from the packs are the rugs. They for some reason look awesome in the editor but they loss alot quality when rendered in game for reasons I'm not quite sure yet.

I've noticed a strange glitch when loading my maps from Lucia, it seems that the menu is super low rez, could it be that the mod is making me load the maps at super low quality, thus me imagining that the textures are showing lower than usual? Because in the editor they are absolutely crystal clear and shiny from the heavens =p

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Yes, deffinately a good resource and nice to know they OK'ed it. That was my biggest concern.

 

But what everyone else says is correct too. We are at the point of trying to fine tune as much as possible, part of that is weeding out the bad textures. We all know they exist, there is a thread specifically about that issue.

 

I think the way to go about this is to not commit them all, but first to test them, possibly have several people test them out. Then vote on which ones to include. Decide which ones need better hieght/normal maps and improve them BEFORE commit.

 

Then we don't add to the problem of removing them because only the best have been included.

Baddcogg, there's nothing you guys gotta commit on lol. They are just textures that I'm using for my map, if you guys wanna use some that's cool. I'm not saying use all these textures or you guys get nothing! I'm just trying to share my stuff because to me it would be massively unfair if I had textures in my map that no one could use and could possibly hurt the visual quality of other user's maps because the textures look drastically different.

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The only bad textures or less quality ones from the packs are the rugs. They for some reason look awesome in the editor but they loss alot quality when rendered in game for reasons I'm not quite sure yet.

I've noticed a strange glitch when loading my maps from Lucia, it seems that the menu is super low rez, could it be that the mod is making me load the maps at super low quality, thus me imagining that the textures are showing lower than usual? Because in the editor they are absolutely crystal clear and shiny from the heavens =p

 

I believe this entry will solve the menu issues as well as the rug texture issue :)

 

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php/...g_is_very_fuzzy

 

As for the textures, it would be cool if you could bring them properly in game, e.g. get ridof the spec, format the def, and then prepare a download with all these things so we can have a look and evaluate them :)

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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I always wondered about this article - the images to me don't really show the issue at hand. Having a really hard time to see the difference between them :(

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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I always wondered about this article - the images to me don't really show the issue at hand. Having a really hard time to see the difference between them :(

 

Unfortunately I read that as well, I could use it later to smooth some rough edges out but its not bumpiness I'm trying to solve. I mean its a minor quible for most of the textures, most still look great in game. Hey Springheel, why don't you send me a PM(tels too) and maybe you guys can look at some of the textures and help me set these up properly. I only just started using GIMP 3 days ago and I can hardly figure out how to do anything until I read alot of tutorials. Once I fully understand what I'm doing I could take the reins and bring them all in game for you guys when I have the time.

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Ok guys I think I fixed the problem. I did what Tel said and that fixed the menu. I then turned off compresstextures by setting it to 0 along with downsize to 0. Now my tiles are rendering practically perfect with no blur whatsoever. I think the problem(from a noob perspective) was that for all my texture I put in game did not use compression at all. I didn't have a dds. file either, so I think turning off compression allowed the engine to show the detail of the textures, because before the game was forcing the uncompressed textures to compress, thus causing blur when textures when looked at from an angle or enlarged slightly

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