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Newbie DarkRadiant Questions


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#7226 grayman

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 09:10 PM

I just press Shift+P, hit Enter and I have a plane, not sure what you're talking about.

 

In your context, 'plane' =  'patch'. 'patch' is the terminology used by DR, so that's how mission authors (and all the documentation) refer to it.

 

'Pressing Shift+P, hit Enter' gives you a patch that matches the size of the last object selected in the editor, as viewed in the currently active Orthoview. If a brush was selected, the default is to remove the brush (which might not be what you want, in which case you need to uncheck the 'remove brush' box). If a model was selected, the default is to simply give you the patch.

 

You then size your new patch to the opening you want to place the visportal in, texture the patch's face with the Vis Portal texture, and now you have a patch which at first glance might appear to provide you with the visportaling function you desire.

 

However:

 

1 - A patch has no depth, so it's a line in the orthoview when viewed from the side.

 

2 - A patch has no back face, so the camera view won't show it when viewed from the back.

 

3 - (And most importantly) dmap ignores it, so the visportal doesn't work.

 

You're better off creating a brush the size of the visportal you want (sealing the edge faces to worldspawn), and pressing 'Brush->Make Visportal'. 


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#7227 Destined

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:21 AM

Well, after reading, what you wrote, I would have agreed with Judith, that the patch is less work, if it weren't for point 3 in your "however". If you can simply select a door and create a patch via Shift+P, it would be much simpler than creating a brush that has the size of your door and then make it into a visportal as you would not have to manually resize it. That you cannot see it from the back and see it worse in orthoview is something I could live with. But if dmap ignores it and it, consequently, loses its function, the whole discussion is moot.



#7228 demagogue

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 04:35 AM

I think there's actually an intended logic to it because leafs are meant to be hermetically sealed from one another by brushes and patches don't seal. So it makes sense the linking point would be a special kind of brush.

I mean the entire world of leaf-making & dmapping is a world of brushes, and patches & func_stats are mere decorations thrown in after the fact, oblivious to the whole thing.

Also, fwiw, the best way to find an internal leak is to convert the VPs into solid, put the player in, and see if the pointfile red line can get out.
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#7229 Judith

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:03 AM

 

In your context, 'plane' =  'patch'. 'patch' is the terminology used by DR, so that's how mission authors (and all the documentation) refer to it.

 

'Pressing Shift+P, hit Enter' gives you a patch that matches the size of the last object selected in the editor, as viewed in the currently active Orthoview. If a brush was selected, the default is to remove the brush (which might not be what you want, in which case you need to uncheck the 'remove brush' box). If a model was selected, the default is to simply give you the patch.

 

You then size your new patch to the opening you want to place the visportal in, texture the patch's face with the Vis Portal texture, and now you have a patch which at first glance might appear to provide you with the visportaling function you desire.

 

However:

 

1 - A patch has no depth, so it's a line in the orthoview when viewed from the side.

 

2 - A patch has no back face, so the camera view won't show it when viewed from the back.

 

3 - (And most importantly) dmap ignores it, so the visportal doesn't work.

 

You're better off creating a brush the size of the visportal you want (sealing the edge faces to worldspawn), and pressing 'Brush->Make Visportal'. 

 

Yup, that makes more sense, thank you. I don't mind the lack of backfacing, that's how ZonePortals worked in UE2 as well, but if DMAP ingores it, there's no point in using it.



#7230 AluminumHaste

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:26 AM

 

I was actually a little saddened to learn that the AI only see an empty room, must be kinda boring for them. Would explain why they always seem to be able to find me when I think I'm in a nice little hiding spot!

 

Well that's not true, entities will block the vision of an AI when their eyes do a trace while looking for you.

Their pathfinding in the room won't see entities like models and such though. So while they can't see you behind a sofa, they also don't know the sofa is there unless there's monsterclip brush surrounding it.

Hence, sometimes you'll see an AI trying to run to attack you, but will get stuck running in place against a lamp post or something like that.

Building with AI in mind is kind of neat though.

 

In DR hide all entities, that's pretty much what AI know is there.


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I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

#7231 grayman

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:37 AM

Well, after reading, what you wrote, I would have agreed with Judith, that the patch is less work, if it weren't for point 3 in your "however". If you can simply select a door and create a patch via Shift+P, it would be much simpler than creating a brush that has the size of your door and then make it into a visportal as you would not have to manually resize it. That you cannot see it from the back and see it worse in orthoview is something I could live with. But if dmap ignores it and it, consequently, loses its function, the whole discussion is moot.

 

Using a door as a VP template only 'works' if the door snaps to the grid and seals the gap in the surrounding worldspawn wall.

 

We have many prefab doors and door frames available to us that don't snap to the grid, so you wouldn't be able to use this shortcut technique with them.



#7232 grayman

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:47 AM

Also, fwiw, the best way to find an internal leak is to convert the VPs into solid, put the player in, and see if the pointfile red line can get out.

 

Aye, I'd forgotten about this point, even though I found myself using it only yesterday to track down an internal leak.

 

Good point, thanks.

 

Btw, the player start might not always be the lowest-numbered entity. It's recommended to start a new map with

 

prefab->misc->StartObjectives,Shop,Tools,Ammo.pfb.

 

This provides the LeakTest entity that's guaranteed to be entity #1.



#7233 Sotha

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:02 AM

Ah, ok I see what I missed there, he lowered the mc to the height of the bed, I missed that on the first watch. I saw him raise the other mc's, and he even mentioned he did that to prevent AI from trying to walk on their top surface. Thanks, AluminumHaste and demagogue, appreciate your time!



The monsterclip does not need to be lowered to the height of the bed. I usually make all mc tall to the ceiling. The AI can use the bed just fine. The AI slides into the mc when they go to sleep, but they do not pathfind when sleeping, and they slide out from the mc when they wake up. Thst way the AI does not get stuck into the mc.

Always make mc tall to the ceiling unless you want the AI walk on the object being monsterclipped.
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#7234 Judith

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:34 AM

By the way I'll be making static meshes like stairs and floors with custom (simplified) collision shell. Should I make the monsterclip shell for the AI a part of the model too, or it's better to do that with brushes in DR?


Edited by Judith, 20 March 2017 - 10:27 AM.


#7235 grayman

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:51 AM

By the way I'll be making static meshes like stairs and floors with custom (simplified) collision shell. Should I make the monsterclip shell for the AI a part of the model too, or it's better to do that with brushes in DR?

 

Walking on m/c makes the same sound as walking on stone.

 

If the steps are made of wood, it makes more sense to use textures/common/tdm_nodrawsolid_wood, to get the wood-walking sounds.

 

The tdm_nodrawsolid_* collection is there to provide different solids mappers can use on different surfaces where AI walk. They act the same as m/c.


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#7236 grayman

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:07 AM

A couple more comments:

 

1 - If you provide the solid brushes for AI to walk on, you can't put them in the model because they then won't be worldspawn brushes, and dmap won't create the walking surfaces. If you want to provide these brushes, you need to include them and your model as a prefab. Then the mapper can drop the prefab into the map and all will work fine.

 

2 - Some mappers use ramps under stairs, so if you provide walking surfaces, be aware that sometimes they'll be deleted in favor of a ramp.



#7237 Springheel

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:13 PM

 

Aye, I'd forgotten about this point, even though I found myself using it only yesterday to track down an internal leak.

 

Good point, thanks.

 

Btw, the player start might not always be the lowest-numbered entity. It's recommended to start a new map with

 

prefab->misc->StartObjectives,Shop,Tools,Ammo.pfb.

 

This provides the LeakTest entity that's guaranteed to be entity #1.

 

 

I just use DR to filter out all entities, then copy/paste the map and save it as "visportal.map".  Then you can put the player start entity wherever you want to test, and know that it's the only entity in the map.  Not only that but it's easier to track leaks because there are no patches or func_statics in the way.


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#7238 montag

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:31 PM

The AI slides into the mc when they go to sleep, but they do not pathfind when sleeping, and they slide out from the mc when they wake up. Thst way the AI does not get stuck into the mc.

Thanks, Sotha! I rewatched the vid, and thought I was going crazy, 'cause that mc was tall! Between yours and Judiths videos, and the work that is being done to the wiki, I may have a go at a little map myself. Just for my own amusement, don't expect it will ever see the light of day.


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#7239 Sotha

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:39 PM

Excellent, montag!

Please do consider about the mission release part, though: why do it just for your own amusement, when you could give it for the community to play? A simple and short mission is better than no mission at all, right?

If you run into trouble, do not hesitate to ask for help around the forums: there are many veteran mappers who are happy to help new mappers out.
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#7240 montag

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:34 PM

Thanks for the words of support, Sotha! If I can press my luck a little, I have a bit of an odd request, would you be ok with me following your vids to copy your map? Of course, I would never release it as my own, but I feel it would be invaluable to me to learn my way around DR step by step, with a finished product to compare to. I fully understand if you would not be comfortable with this request, so don't hesitate to tell me NO! 



#7241 Sotha

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Posted Yesterday, 12:29 AM

What an unusual request. Feel free to do what you wish! :)

But would it be better if you just copied my workflow and not the map itself? You could build similar modules like I did, and then simply clone them into a different floorplan and then carry on working according to the video, but working on your own floorplan.

That way you would get the same mapping experience, while producing something new for the community to play. The value of your work would be higher than when simply recreating of The Bakery Job.

If you have trouble inventing the location or the plot, it could be as simple as "break in that local house to steal that specific item a buyer wants."

Just a proposal for you consideration.

Oh, and feel free to copy any part of my map if it makes your work easier. Modules are good building excercise, so I really recommend you do your own even if they end up looking exactly like mine. But copying stuff like window lights, the shop, etc probably speed up nicely as you do not need to spend time tweaking the settings but getting something working in immediately.

Best of luck!
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#7242 NeonsStyle

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Posted Yesterday, 10:03 AM

<I've posted this elswhere, but got no replies.>

 

http://forums.thedar...rogress/page-16

 

If you've a clue, let me know

 

Thanks

 

Neon


Edited by NeonsStyle, Yesterday, 10:04 AM.


#7243 montag

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Posted Yesterday, 08:32 PM

What an unusual request. Feel free to do what you wish! :)...Best of luck!

Thanks, Sotha! Your proposal makes a lot of sense, I'll try it, but you may be surprised at just how clue-less I can be. Will give it a shot, but I may get totally lost in DR's interface. If no one hears from me within the next 24-36 months please send in a search and rescue team!


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