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Newbie DarkRadiant Questions


demagogue

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It's not obvious which properties work with which entities and the wiki, being voluntary can be a bit confusing.

 

To delete an object when the player passes by you'll find a delete entity under targets I think so you can just target that from a normal trigger brush.

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First questions, really newbie:

  1. Where can I find a list of properties for each class? For example, it wasn't very obvious from the wiki that I could give a "solid" "0" property to a func_static to make it non-solid.

 

Answer lies in this in this post.

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/12833-sir-taffsalots-mapping-thread/page__view__findpost__p__285333

 

I'm toying around with the stim/response system. Where can I find a list describing the default stims? For example what is a "player" stim? I'm looking for a simple way to delete a nearby object when the player passes through a simple brush or func_static.

 

I don't know about the list of stims and responses. Usually you do stuff like that with triggers. Make a box, turn it into a trigger_once, that targets a func_static, so that it hides. func_statics hide if they are targeted.

 

Using S&R you do it like this:

take any func_static object and open it in the S&R editor. Add response "trigger." Give it an effect remove. Give the remove effect the entity name you want to be removed from the game.

 

Your trigger_once targets the func_static that you gave S&R. When the func_static receives the triggering, it executes the stuff you gave in the effect part, removing the entity you wanted permanently from the game.

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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Thanks for the list, it is very helpful.

Is there something particular I should know so that triggers can work? Here's my setup:

  • One model, named func_static_deleteme_33, imported as a func_static and made non-solid ;
  • One brush, named func_static_33, converted as func_static, textured with nodraw, setup with response to STIM_TRIGGER with effect_remove on func_static_deleteme_33 ;
  • One brush, named trigger_once_1, converted as trigger_once, setup with target func_static_33.

When I go near the trigger volume, or if I manually enter "trigger func_static_33" in the console, nothing happens.

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Sounds about right. No idea why it doesn't work. I made a working sample for you, here:

http://www.2shared.c...hnW/remove.html

 

When the player moves towards the girl, she disappears. (the story of my life, heh heh.. :laugh: ) Examine the trigger and the barrel, which contains the S&R stuff.

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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Thanks a lot for taking the time to make a demo map, Sotha. So apparently there were two problems, first I was using "target" instead of "target0", although I'm not sure of the difference between the two, then it seems my non-physical func_static didn't like being triggered. Using a visible model as the trigger receiver immediately solved the problem.

 

Don't fret too much over girls who disappear, they didn't have a head or a brain to begin with :P

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Hello, I'm making a thing in Blender for my beginners competition entry (don't ask).

 

My thing (this isn't it, it's a quick rehash - damn you blender for not asking if I want to save when I exited, grrr) has been converted to triangles, but I've got this faint memory from sometime around 2003 when I last tried triangling something for Unreal Tournament that I might be doing it all wrong.

 

What I've done is blend1.png. But my increasingly flaky memory seems to think that the configuration of triangles in blend2.png (even though it has more triangles) is better because it doesn't have vertices floating halfway along an edge.

 

So am I going mad?

post-31-0-07865400-1335815120_thumb.png

post-31-0-33317000-1335815366_thumb.png

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The first one is called 'floating polys' since they are floating obviously ;)

 

Sometimes it depends on the engine. In T2 having a solid hull like the bottom was best because the top one would cause a lot more tris during conversion if they even slightly crossed each other (it basically did a boleen function but didn't delete the extra tris).

 

Most modern engines (Doom3) can handle either. We don't have to worry about tris too much, so for only a few more tris #2 will give you better looking results (depending on what you want of course).

 

#1- allows the possibility of tiny gaps (we had some on a old generator model), light can shine through/player can see through if they are lined up right. So that's worst case scenario.

 

(Better for shadow meshes to keep them as low poly as possible)

 

#2- makes it easier to get rid of those possible gaps. It also allows you to have the entire edge as a smooth group (#1 would have 2 pieces to smooth).

( If you want hard edges you need to split the mesh between smooth groups btw - Doom3 only does 1 smooth group per model, so to have multiple groups the model needs to be several pieces)

  • Like 1

Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

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Seems to be a bug in my map regarding flee points. I had the problem before, all of a sudden the character (an unarmed lady) stopped going to the original flee point I had built labouriously with two guards waiting to be called upon, hidden from the player. I figured I had done something wrong with visportals or some other ellusive TDM/Doom factor, and decided before release to create a new one, also complex set up for her (this time she would aproach some neutral npcs nearby, there would be triggers along the way to make them agressive towards the player if that happened), I tested it a couple of times and it worked perfectly. Now I was testing some other thing this week (looking for bugs actually), and she wont move again, when alerted, just scream like a pathless AI. Its rare, but sometimes she'll even run aimlessly and cower, ignoring the flee point completely. Another instance of the problem is that another woman AI will not run to her flee point a room away (her husband bedroom), even though the path to there is compeltely functional (I can get the husband to follow me throughout the apartment) and the flee point node is not close to anything. There's no additional info on the wikis about flee points, I wonder what makes them malfunction? Should I place them over the ground, on the ground, sinking into the ground? Are patches on the floor a problem? How far from objects or walls?

Edited by RPGista
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The origin of the flee point is the spot she'll run to, so for the most accuracy, place the bottom of the path_flee on the ground, and at least 16 units from any surrounding worldspawn or monster_clip.

 

The code mirrors the wiki description (as one would hope), so her selection process is as described in the wiki.

 

If the woman is behaving badly, then it's either a pathfinding problem or the code task she uses to exhibit the behavior terminated prematurely.

 

I could examine her behavior if you PM me a version of the map that exhibits it, plus any required supporting materials.

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Well, you were just playing the map a week or so ago (my map)! ;) If you try to scare both ladies in there, they should flee (the lady should flee down the street and ask help from the peasants; the cooker should flee to her husband's bedroom and (hopefully) wake him up). They'll both stay put, screaming instead. That wouldnt be too much of a problem if the screams were louder, but as I pointed out earlier in another post, screaming AI seems unable to alert another AI a room away with alarm screams, even with the door between them open.

 

Sotha pointed this out: http://bugs.angua.at/view.php?id=3100

 

It seems that if there's a certain flee point that any given AI is unable to reach (inside the respective team), chances are none of them will work.

Edited by RPGista
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1. There's a check box at the top of the Entity box that says "Show Inherited Properties" (or something like that). Check it and all the properties will appear.

2. The wiki (http://wiki.thedarkm...onse_Key/Values) says to look here: See /script/darkmod_stim_response.script for a complete list of stim types. I don't know if that's what you want though.

 

Edit: lol, holy crap! That's what happens when I don't check threads regularly, the link takes me to the first unread post, and I end up responding to 3 day old posts...

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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  • 1 month later...

I thought sparklies were only caused by brushes? Only thing I would suggest is to select all patches, ungroup them, set the grid to minimum (0.125?) and snap it all to the grid. That helps with microscopic light gaps at least.

Edited by RPGista
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You mean snapping doesnt fix it, or it is not working? Because for you to be able to snap patches Im pretty sure you need to have them selected on vertex editting mode (select all vertices and then snap them to the grid). It might also help to, while having them selected, just assign a degree of tesselation to all of them at once, this should also close any gaps that come from intersecting patches that might have had different tessalation levels assigned by the engine.

 

Again, these are just things you can do to make groups of patches work efficiently, Im not sure this would have an impact on your specific case.

Edited by RPGista
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Sparklies aren't gaps. They come from a rounding flub by the engine IIRC allowing points of light to pass through (the location of those points often have long decimals), so that's why snapping doesn't do anything and moving it fixes it, since that changes the value of those locations.

 

Patches do have sparklies. I had this same issue, and I believe the technique I used to fix it IIRC was given in this very thread somewhere down there. Offhand, moving it a bit might get rid of them, or changing the geometry slightly, or using a little cleaner geometry (more square than weird angles)...

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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I'm playing around with this and trying to figure out a way to build this cleanly per the recommendations here...

 

http://www.quake3world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4114

 

I've concluded that I don't care for patch meshes. It seems like you have no choice but to stack control points on top of one another and clip surfaces into each other. The resulting topology is a god damn mess where I'd never have these issues in a modeling package. I honestly don't know how you guys manage.

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It's not that hard rich, yes vertex points end up getting stacked which makes re-selecting them a pain, but hiding a brush/patch that overlaps makes it easier. I haven't encountered sparklies in a long time during my mapping expeditions and I'm not sure why. Even my cathedral maps have 0 sparklies.

Have you tried converting all of that to func_static then dmapping?

I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

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Don't think I've ever had sparklies in stuff I've created myself. Maybe I've forgot. I know I've tried to fix some in others maps.

 

btw does the Quake editor have an ase exporter? Just wondering if so if it does not have the normal map glitch as with DR.

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I've actually used patches extensively and didnt find any problems either, even when I thought for sure there would be glitches. My chapel interiors/structure, a derelict building full of debris that is composed of a million overlapping boards, wood beams, terrain masses, rocks, and more... I found them to be quite forgiving actually and found myself having to remodel several sections of the map from brushes to patches as they are a lot less problematic for creating anything really that is not a partition wall or floor slab.

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(Copied this over from the 'What are you working on now?' thread as this is more where it belongs. Looks like I've joined the patch mesh debate at just the right time.)

 

I'm (slowly and painfully) working on the first part of a possible FM, which I'd like to start with a fairly long tunnel approach as a secret entrance to an underground mission (so the tunnel would be the first, fairly small part of a larger map). I'm going for mostly tight & claustrophobic with some jumping & climbing challenges, with maybe one or two wider areas with the space for some AI interaction before reaching the main mission area.

 

I'd appreciate any comments on whether my approach to constructing tunnels is (1) fine; (2) OK but there's a much easier way; (3) seriously flawed and just going to cause problems down the line. I have no background in this type of thing at all - I'm just using DR in a point/click/make-something-pretty way, and I seriously don't understand any of the technicalities of what I'm doing.

 

Construction method:

(1) created an 11x11 Simple Patch Mesh

(2) vertice-wrapped it into a rough asymmetrical tube

(3) duplicated it four times and placed them end-to-end. (I did put them altogether as a Selection Set, but this doesn't seem to get saved once DR closes. Is there a way of grouping/welding them together to make one object?)

(4) pulled and bent them around, again moving vertices.

 

A couple of screenshots if they're of any use - this is in its very early stages, so everything's still pretty smoothed out and slapped on ATM. Just wanted to get some feedback on whether this approach is OK before I really went to town on it! (NB: The endless brick wall in the background of the first shot won't be part of the eventual map :P .)

post-9265-0-90855000-1340122869_thumb.jpg

post-9265-0-85685600-1340122916_thumb.jpg

 

AluminiumHaste replied to my original post suggesting I use a patch cylinder. I did try that but can't work out how to get the texture on the inside.

 

EDIT: AH has pointed me toward the wonder of 'Invert' (ctrl-I) :) . So next newbie question - the cylinder patch doesn't seem to have many vertices (vertex points?) on it to play around with. Is there a way of either (1) adding more vertices to it, or (2) stitching together several short cylinders to make a long cylinder with more vertices I can bend and stretch?

Edited by simplen00b
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Rather than creating a simple cylinder, you could use Patch->More Cylinders->Create Very Dense Cylinder.

 

That will give you more vertices to play with.

 

Also, you can select a simple cylinder and use Patch->Append->Append 2 Rows ... or Patch->Insert->Insert 2 rows ..., and do this as many times as you need to get the number of vertices you want.

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Hehe, nice to see you are working on a map, SN!

 

Here we go:

 

It would be indeed easier to go with a long or a series of cilindrical patches. You can add control points rows but going to patch -> insert -> 2 columns or rows (vertical and horizontal, forgot which ones). If you choose append, it will add a row to the shape of the existing patch (like an extrusion).

 

Patches are "stiched together" if they share all control point positions on a shared edge - the shared edge also has to have the same number of points/rows, or there will be gaps between the two curved planes (Im not sure if you can literally merge two patches, would be interested in that too). To make sure all the edge points are overlapping, just select by pairs and snap to grid.

 

The only thing you need to keep in mind when connecting two different patches is tangency - I believe patches in DR alternate between a row of points (where the plane must go through) and a row of control points (the points that "attract" the plane, creating the curvature). They are like the top curve on the left:

 

curvature.png

 

This means that in order for two patches to be tangent to each other, the pair of control points around them should be perpendicular (on the same line) - exactly like the same top curve on the left, or the two top curves in the middle (above picture). If you dont do that, you'll be able to see a clear seam, like this:

 

91.jpg

 

So when joining two different cilinders, be sure to:

 

1- Only join patch edges that have the exact same number of control points/rows.

2- Overlap all the points over the shared edge(s) (where both cilinders meet).

3- Make sure both rows of control points around the shared edge are tangent to it - just take a look at the example below:

 

post-8474-0-15869800-1340128364_thumb.jpg

 

These are two "3 row" cilinders connected with tangent continuity.

 

Dont forget to select all the patches after you modeled them and shit+s to call up Patch inspector -> Patch Tessalation -> Fixed Subdivisions -> input the level of tessalation for both axis, so you can control the level of detail of the whole thing.

 

PS: Is that a new texture? Either way, I like the look of it. ;)

Edited by RPGista
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