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Hi all, We are an indie developer currently working on a stealth game called Winter Ember. Winter Ember is heavily inspired by the Thief series. I would love to see my fellow stealth fans check out it out and let me know what you think! The Steam page has gone live, please check it out! https://store.steampowered.com/app/1417880/Winter_Ember/ Cheers, Rob

This is exactly what I mean when I say the patrols are randomized. Not that guards will randomly walk around and all congregate in one spot sometimes, nor that they walk along super strict paths like robots. The happy medium where gameplay and immersion is at it's best is when the guards follow a patrol route, but random, unpredictable things can happen within discreet areas. Say that the guard walks in a room, and then proceeds to do one or more of these things randomly; studies a painting, sits in a chair, stands by the window looking out or scanning a bookshelf, causing him to criss-cross the room a bit in the process. He then leaves the room and walks to the next where the process repeats. This keeps the player on their toes if they are in the room, since they can't know with precision what the guard will do next. It also seems like a realistic scenario for a bored guard. Since these paths don't overlap too much you also won't have the scenario you mentioned above where suddenly there are 6 guards in the kitchen.

Guys we already had the same discussion https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/16601-some-questions-about-the-ais-patrol-paths/

I'm surprised there's no existing thread for this game. I've not progressed far yet (a few hours) but most of my time has been spent sneaking. There have been only a few places where I had to shoot to survive - though that might be because I missed a stealthy way round mech crawlers and flying drones etc. I finally reached a section where there are really humanoid terminators and currently these are unkillable so you HAVE to use stealth. The game reminds you more than once that a shotgun blast might temporarily stun them (for how long I dunno as I never tried) but otherwise you need to creep. The game is first person and I just found a way to 'holster' my gun which had become annoying when you had to walk around all the time with a thumping great weapon right in front. The way is to set no weapons on the weapon wheel selector. When you need a gun, hit the key that lets you set it (the game pauses so no frantic hurry) and just set the single one you want. With practice that only takes three quick clicks and you're armed. But if you're playing stealthy that is not needed very often anyway. Crouch is REAL low! Behind an average family car I noticed my eyeline was slightly below the top of the tyres! That is a crawl! Level design often has feeble 'rubble corridors' but there have been some decent wider, open areas. No climbing sadly, only the 'ministry of silly jumps' but I manage to get on top of a couple of crates and find a broken window out of which to lob an explosive to blow up a quest item. I was quite pleased with that because I was sure it wasn't contrived by the developer. Hacking is horrible - much like Prey with having to quick side step threw the moving lines on the monitor display. Maybe you'll like it but I hate QTE or quick reflex subgames. You take a hit each time you fail and I had to use quite a few medikits (and that was on 'very easy'!) I shall only do those on criticals in future as it's not worth the hassle just to open a chest to get a few scrap parts. Fallout 4 is much better where you have to work out an actual password not play a ruddy Frogger game. Lockpicking is tolerable and similar to Fallout 4 and others like that. There are chapter saves, checkpoint saves, and occasionally manual game save points. Not perfect but better than games with only checkpoints. Enjoying it so far.

TDM 2.08 Released! We are proud to announce the release of The Dark Mod 2.08! Long in development, many fixes related to Multi-Core, Uncapped FPS, and the 64-bit migration are now available. TDM 2.08 goes further with the process to modernize coding standards in TDM, replacing legacy OpenGL functions and ARB Assembly shaders with modern techniques. Mappers will be pleased to see many new quality assets as well as enhancements to rain, fog, skylight, AIs and visportal diagnostics. For the eye-candy crowd, new Bloom, 64-bit color mode, and SSAO options have been added! For Linux users, the project can now be compiled via CMake. A full changelog can be viewed here, but some highlights include: Better Visuals: Cabalistic has finally added the much requested SSAO feature to TDM. Using a method called Scalable Ambient Obscurance, now areas with flat ambient lighting come alive with new detail! He’s also implemented a new Bloom method, and brightness and gamma will no longer interfere with desktop brightness. Better AI: Grayman has refined the AI yet again, for instance ensuring that sitting and lying aren't thwarted by obstacles. Better Gameplay: The player’s ability to move and interact with the environment has been improved thanks to fixes to mantling as well as climbing ropes and ladders. Ragdolls are easier to handle and shouldering them is accompanied by an animation. Better Mapping: The mapper’s toolkit has seen several enhancements. A new X-ray surface and new spectrum spawnargs modify how objects are perceived. Rain is much less taxing and uses static collision detection to limit its fall. New visportal diagnostics make it easier than ever to track down notorious internal leaks. Better Performance: The dev team has as always been hard at work making improvements to performance and laying the groundwork for even more improvements in the future. Multi-Core’s stability has been enhanced and is no longer listed as an “Experimental” setting. New Assets: Many quality textures and models were added by both Team members and community contributors. Especially of note is the inclusion of Kingsal’s manbeasts and Springheel’s new zombies, and expect to catch glimpses of the werebeast. If you are a mission author, please take a look here. New Sounds: The player’s movement is now accompanied by new sounds when mantling, swimming and sliding down ropes and ladders. To update, simply run the tdm_update.exe file in your darkmod folder. Please be aware that old saved games will not be compatible with 2.08, so finish any missions you might be in the middle of first!

Closed the game and restarted from scratch this morning but found I hadn't missed anything at the start - there really is very little info. There's a scene with an argument but no context. In fact, that defines everything I've seen so far - no context. From within the game I don't know who or what I am or why I am doing anything. So the game is of the type which I call a game of blunders. By that I mean I learned some time ago in this type of game it's not worth trying to understand - just click everything and keep trying to blunder forward blindly. Compare that to Thief and Dark Mod where you pretty much know what your ultimate objectives are; the challenge is how to accomplish them. So, as I progress I discover that some handwritten notes on a large memo I've got apparently my own handwriting - notes I'm writing as I go along. Later I discover that the building I've entered into through a window is not some unknown enemy's lair but is where I work myself! This is blind blundering and for me breaks a major rule of video games: nothing should be harder than it would be in real life and nothing should be unknown that you'd expect to know in real life. Like how can this character I'm playing not even know who she is or why she's there or what she's supposed to be doing except as she goes along? I didn't even know I was the woman in the argument scene until I'd been playing for a few minutes. None of this may bother some players like it does me but if it does bug you, the way to play is, as said, to resign to click stuff and blunder on and let it unfold. But it lacks feeling because I don't feel desperate or scared or anything really because it's all just an abstract void. That said, the presentation and game movement is not bad. Leaning needs two keys/buttons which is why I never found it at first: it's one shift-type plus the move left right (and I think forward but forget to check that again.) I think the only game saves are probably check points. Forget climbing as we know it in Thief and Dark Mod - it's special-point climbing like onto a window ledge or over a desk. You can't climb over any desk except one special desk sort of thing. Stealth includes crouch but my first experience of any interaction with an enemy was an alarm that I think now is bound to be triggered. I was trapped in an office. The guard had a torch. I hid behind a partition. He came in and eventually went out but it's all glass partitioned offices. I had nowhere to go except out past him which seemed impossible. At his furthest distance I quietly opened the door which immediately alerted him. I back away and hid again. No solution that I could see. I eventually just walked out and he simply took me to the security head who had me evicted. So the so-called stealth seemed choreographed (even though there was a 'quest' to escape the building. Dunno if anyone got out without being seen or even if it matters.) Mixed feelings then. There is enough interest to keep me going for now but no passionate involvement yet, if ever. Sheesh... when I recall how excited I was when I first played Thief! Maybe I'm just getting old. Textures are moderate to poor. Dark Mod bookshelves are vastly better - the books spines in this bland and blank without even a blurred title! Oh well, maybe the developers don't have the time and resources and dedication of Dark Mod developers - but it shows. Seriously, the graphics are not a big issue with me; gameplay is king - but here it's more... queenish.

Not an issue with the engine though, just the amount of detail the devs decided to pack into the game. If you take a look at their former games, they look much worse even.