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There's something fairly unique in TDM, at least as far as I've seen in a user-made game. I remember when grayman passed away last year, it wasn't long before we started seeing missions that had memorials dedicated to him implemented somewhere within the missions themselves. I can't remember the exact missions I've seen with grayman memorials of some sort, but I've definitely seen at least three. Just small things, in most cases requiring a little extra work from the player to find them always tastefully done. Well I was recently replaying a bunch of missions and came across this within a recessed area in a mission called The Warrens, an area I hadn't discovered in previous playthroughs: Sir Taffaslot was another mission creator who made a handful of missions who also tragically died a few years ago. The amazing thing is not only is it a nice little memorial to just randomly find when playing, but the author of this particular map (The Warrens)? grayman. Hell the guy even made a dedicated mission as a tribute to Sir Taffaslot. So yeah. We may just be "nothing more than a cult posing as a game development project", but it does bring a tear to my eyes sometimes in way most other games don't.

Very fun! And I didn't cheat!! Though I was tempted to, at times. But there's something about the FM that invites the player to continue searching instead of spoiling the whole thing. Thanks for brightening my day! Time: 1:06 Difficulty level: medium Times saved: 13 Damage dealt: 28 Received: 0 Pockets picked: 1 Loot Acquired: 3774 out of 4184 Killed by player: 0 KOed by player: 5 Bodies found: 0 Secrets found: 0 Alerts: 22 suspicious, 2 searches, 0 sightings Stealth score: 6

'ello! As you may be aware I spent the first week of this month remaking La Banque Bienveillante, the first mission of my Quinn Co. campaign I started almost a decade ago. Well, with the help of a bunch of lovely beta testers over a month of feature creep, it's now done! I've made a new topic rather than necroing the old one, because I feel it's come along enough now that it is, essentially, a whole new mission made in the spirit of the original. The goal is to eventually make the existing missions obsolete and put this new campaign in its place, but when that happens I'll include a link to the old .pk4 in here for posterity, since I don't believe in deleting work entirely no matter how mediocre it was! To that end, can this please be entered into the mission downloader as a standalone mission? It can then replace the existing Quinn Co. once the second mission is out, thanks! This is a small, short and sweet bank heist that sets the stage for the larger--and much more difficult--campaign in the works. It's mechanically stripped back a little from the initial release, since I feel I got a bit carried away. It is, however, far prettier as well! Your objective is, of course, the vault, but you can take on extra jobs for people to make money on the side; while the vault gives you money to spend in the next mission's shop, it doesn't count towards your overall loot objective whereas optional jobs do, so it's up to you if you'd rather almost empty the place to make ends meet, or take on extra work if you're less inclined to go hunting for shinies! Screenshots Thanks Big thanks to all the lovely beta testers without whom the mission would probably fail to run! Acolytesix, Datiswous, jaxa, madtaffer, Shadow, thebigh, The Black Arrow, Wellingtoncrab & wesp5 And thanks to everyone who's continued to contribute to the project over the years - I've come back and there's so much more fantastic content to play with! And thanks to you! For playing! I'd love to hear what you think, and feel free to notify me of any issues - provided they're not game-breaking, they'll be fixed when Quinn Co 2 comes out soon! (tm) Download (.pk4)

I'm not sure what claim you're making--that in real life, someone couldn't dodge at the last second to turn a potentially lethal hit into a nonlethal one, or that TDM AI should have some animation to indicate that this is happening. The first one is rather obviously incorrect, so I assume it's the second one. In which case...ok? It would be great if every tiny detail of reality were included, but we're talking about a game where AI spin around 360 without lifting their feet off the ground and where arrows disappear after hitting someone.

Thanks, I found it. I just finished the mission. Wow. I understand the high ratings now. Epic mission. The story was top notch, and reminded me quite a bit of Thief 3's main story line. Gameplay and visuals on a similarly high level. Perfect.

It's all those damn Social Clubbers ruining everything... I remember finding the memorial in The Warrens. I figured Sir Taffsalot was some kind of musician based on the banjo, but never worked out if the glowing egg was significant or just a decoration.

Hello frens, i managed to do my own speedrun of the demo! I hope you like it, it was my first time and i struggled hard.

Thanks for your comment, @Obsttorte . I find all your posts constructive and thoughtful. Compromises vs determination. What a subject! Determination can reinforce the gameplay for your target audience and well intended compromises can leave a game in a status where neither your target audience nor casual players are fully satisfied. Geez, did I just open a can of worms? @kingsal, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. Feedback, observations, or suggestions can be perceived as criticism. And leave the impression that a reviewer didn't like unrelated aspects of a mission, or the whole mission. Far from it in my case, I think your mission could perfectly be found, as is, in any commercial game of the genre. Once again, congratulations. One more thought or suggestion on the topic, that could be applied to this mission or others to challenge the way (some) players assess and approach a situation. Players make their way through the first stages of the mission killing Zombies if they like, nothing wrong with that. You can even use some tricks and encourage players to do it. But upon entering the main area, the player finds out Zombies are just poor miners gone wrong and, perhaps, there's hope and order can be somehow restored. Conflict is served.

Not at all! Like I said in the OP, I'll attach the old pk4 when I replace it on the downloader. All the puzzles and whatnot are coming back: the missions will get exponentially bigger, complicated and rewarding, just starting smaller than I did initially so that I don't write myself into a corner! Thanks for playing, past and present!

To be technical about it, "nosound" is a script function to stop a speaker. "Silence" is an actual sound .wav file that plays nothing, so you can still have the speaker "play" an arbitrary .wav file, e.g., for the ambient system, then use that to easily not get a sound, as you might do in the popping case as mentioned... Or that was the theory. (The popping problem was fixed after I added that, but I was never 100% sure that was the fix that did it.) But the issue in any event now is that now countless maps already use "silence" references in their location_settings spawnargs, and it's dicey changing things that mappers add themselves because they won't update with TDM changes, e.g, as opposed to using stock resources that automatically carry TDM changes with them into new versions.

Haha, I would say that's definitely not the intended experience, but its a valid one no doubt. I for sure fumble my way through building these missions, so its not always crystal clear what my *exact* intentions are despite all the effort. Maybe ill do a kind of post mortem write up on this mission. The deadline forced me to streamline my process a bit and have slightly more concrete goals up front. With regards to how I intend a mission to play out- I definitely have some idea of a loose fantasy I'm trying to sell (in this case some mix of Indiana Jones, Resident Evil and DnD dungeon crawling). However, I try not to be overly controlling in how players experience that fantasy. Its a weird dance; it feels like being a hopeful shepherd sometimes; "Please find this key, please use a rope arrow here, please sneak around this guard " There are definitely tools in the author's toolbox for wrangling a player, but in the spirit of Thief, I think a lot of TDM missions try to obscure the author's hand. They strive to showcase the player's actions, creativity, or skills while funneling the player towards a goal. This is a good reason for why I wouldn't spawn more monsters in this particular mission. I want to keep the player focused and feeling like they're making progress. Not saying spawning monsters is bad by itself. I actually think it would support parts of the fantasy in Hazard, but I suspect it would require reworking huge parts of the mission to make it work. Like changing the main objective to kill all the zombies vs collect all the loot. You know what I mean? All that being said, I actually love watching people play missions in crazy ways I never expected. The mission still needs to *work* on some level which is a whole other topic, but I love that a mission can be approached in so many different and even whacky ways. Once again, thanks for playing and making suggestions. I'm taking away a lot of thoughts and ideas from this.

It would, but they require different properties in the sound shader and therefore need unique names. The ambient tracks need a silent "buffer" sound played when the player transitions from one location to the next. This prevents audio popping.

I guess I shouldn't have read that..

Wouldn't it be better if only one "word" would be used for both? So "nosound" also for ambiant tracks? Hopefully it helps someone else, but usually people ask these kind of questions in

I don't understand any of this. It's all so self-contradictory and inconsistent. The player is employing the "best strategy" and "exploiting the mechanic", but he ends up getting killed. There's "no risk" (he dies) and "no chance of failure" (he wastes numerous arrows then dies) but at the same time it's "constant trial and error"? So this strategy which is supposed to be too easy but at the same time gets this player killed, is going to be made more fun and satisfying by imposing randomness and arbitrary restrictions to make it more difficult and unpredictable? Is there some evidence for this beyond the ideologically-driven belief that making a game more difficult automatically makes it more fun? Sorry, I'm just not getting it. Most missions have some combination of helmeted guards and/or no-kill objectives which would make a Sniper Elite headshot-based strategy impossible, even if it were as easy as you claim (and the video disproves).

This was always my favorite episode of the game because of the artwork, and it felt like you were actually in space because of the exteriors through the windows. I always referred to the slimer enemies as "eggies" when I was young. lol

Well the feature is not. I head-shotted an entire pub full of people in mission COS 0 and had a lot of fun with it. I don't do this often, but it can be fun and is just one of the playstyles. Head-shooting can be made better maybe, but not by restriction. Well, I'm fine if somebody (you?) will implement this and other great ideas in new missions, but they should not be part of core. So less control and more restriction means more fun?