Jump to content
The Dark Mod Forums

saxmeister

Member
  • Posts

    151
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by saxmeister

  1. blackjack=stealth

     

    blackjack all the way.... Splinter Cell and Hitman are entirely different genres of gaming. The thief's main focus isn't murder, it's getting in and out with the goods without being detected. Once we stray from this formula we lose the character of the Thief series.

     

    If you ahve never played Thief, go and get Thief:TDP... the original started it all and hasn't been topped (IMO). I reloaded Thief:TDP the other day and have been playing it with fresh new eyes and ears. One word comes to mind.... PERFECTION! I cannot believe just how perfect the overall experience was in this old game. It's amazingly immersive and the cutscenes and storyline are second to almost none.

     

    Once you've played (and subsequently gotten addicted to) Thief:TDP your opinions of what the game should have/should be will, more than likely, drastically change. Try it, then come up with more ideas.... :)

  2. If any of you guys have seen the 1984 David Lynch movie "Dune" which was based on Frank Herbert's novel of the same name you will understand that some of the visuals in the movie were absolutely incredible. I just wish that the movie tranlsation from the book was equally as stunning.... :rolleyes:

     

    Anyway, the design of everything in that world was great. There was a group of good guys (clan Atreides), a group of bad guys (House Harkonnen), and in between were people like the Mapes, the Navigators and the Bene Gesserit witches. So, many different factions, like in Thief.

     

    I thought that maybe some of the costume and set designs (especially from the palace interiors) might be helpful or fit the style. Strangely enough, I was researching some of the info on the movie and came across some stills that I hadn't seen in many years. They had that strange futuristic medieval feel that the Thief universe seems to have.

     

    Here's at least one link...

    Dune costumes

    post-4-1107682278.jpg

  3. Very cool! Nice to know the weather can have an affect on the sound. Just being a sound geek! ;)

     

    I hope any of those articles helps. I'm no mathematician but basically understand most of the formulaic equations. Better you than I! ;) But, from what I read direct would be better for outdoors and diffuse for indoors. See if it seems the same way for you as well....

  4. The official definitions I found of the two are as follows....

     

    Diffuse field-a sound field in which the sound pressure level is the same everywhere and the flow of energy is equally probable in all directions

     

    OR

     

    Sound field in which the time average of the mean-square sound pressure is everywhere the same and the flow of acoustic energy in all directions is equally probable.

     

    Although, I liked this definition best....

     

    The area in a room with multiple reflections equally probable in all directions.

     

    So, it sounds like it's kind of diffused in a way that almost makes it impossible to hear from exactly which direction the sound is propogated. The sound could be just as loud in one corner of the room as in the center.

     

    Direct sound field-the portion of a sound field, in an enclosure, which arrives from the sound source without having undergone any reflection.

     

    So, as far as what the AI hears I don't know if we should consider a dead room where very little reflections get back to them (seems like it would take less processing but may be "cheating")

     

    Here are some sites and a couple of .pdf files on sound field diffusion that might help....

     

    Reverb and room acoustics

     

    sound waves study indoors and outdoors

     

    beam tracing for modeling sound diffraction

     

    propgation of the diffuse sound field document

     

    another propogation of the sound diffuse field document-might be the same as above

     

    sound propgation in ducts

     

    I hope that *any* of these help out!

     

    Also, is phase cancellation taken into effect with the sound engine? Just curious as to how that might figure into gameplay. Are we going to take into consideration weather effects on sound (atmospheric absorption) such as fog, rain, dampness, etc.?

  5. Alright, just throwin' my two bits worth in here....

     

    Granted, the Steam thing is a pain in the ass and many people were disappointed by the game itself. Who wouldn't be after all of the hype that was published and built up over the past few years waiting for it. But, you must realize that making a warez version of HL2 is still stealing. If we want to teach them a lesson simply sit this one out and don't buy it.... If it's so terrible then don't play the game and, at the same time, let your conscience sleep well at night.

     

    I say this because I know what it feels like to have work stolen from me. You pour your heart and soul into something, whether it be artwork, coding, music, anything, and someone says, "you know, I don't think it's very good, so I'm going to just steal it...." Where is the sense in that? Why is it worth the risk of stealing it if it isn't a good experience?

     

    That's about as intelligent as the idiots who boycotted French winemakers when the whole American war in Iraq started. "We're going to boycott French wine by buying it and pouring it all down the drain in front of a cameraman." Hmmm, nice point. The winemakers still got their money and all the protest did was make fools out of those people as they were trying to make their point heard. Even if they had stolen it instead of buying it originally, the insurance companies would have recovered the price of the wine and more would have been shipped. (Granted, not exactly the same for a software company)

     

    Then, the real boycott happened and everyone just quit buying the wine. Guess what? That actually worked... The French winemakers are now having to convert their wine stock into industrial grade alcohol to try to limit supplies enough so that there might actually be a demand for it. Now they can't give it away..... Australian and Californian wines have taken over now. They offered a better product (again, general opinions.... which is better? HL2 or D3? general opinion) for the same or less cost and the customers were more satisfied.

     

    Take a lesson from what happened here (believe me, *nothing* meant against the French at all, just using a fresh example for demonstration) and see that money talks, not piracy. It is plain and simple business.

     

    Which would affect a person more? Stealing their clothes so that they simply miss them and then go buy more while you get stuck with used clothes, or walking up to them and telling them how incredibly stupid they look in their choice of clothing and having all of their friends boycott them? One is a short term solution that only causes more business in other areas: i.e. person doesn't have clothes so person goes and buys more clothes. And the other is a personal attack that the person would actually have to listen to if they wanted to stay "in the game." Change or die!

     

    The same thing for a software manufacturer.... Steal the games and you will eventually have to buy CDs onto which you can burn the games.... keep up the piracy and the taxes on CD-R & DVD blanks will increase so that software manufacturers may recoup some of their money.... the music industry is already doing this!!! (If it can be recorded on it *must* be used for piracy!!!) The other method tells the company *exactly* what it needs to hear. "We want a better product! If it's not worth stealing then it's not worth making..." Right???? But, if everyone is so keen to illegally download it then Valve *must* be doing something right, so they will continue to do exactly the same thing.....

     

    Enough jabbering... Just my two bits worth.... take them for what they are worth...

     

    But, I must agree that Valve must make good on its customer support and do away with Steam distribution system and go back to good old CD/DVD distros with no extra hidden software or fees. Give the consumer back their rights. If you pay for it, IT'S YOURS!!!!! and you have every right to complain or bitch if it doesn't get fixed. In this case I'd say buy the game and then get the patch for it. There is nothing illegal in that unless there is some statement in the EULA tha forbids this patching system.

  6. Hey Rottenberry (love the name!)

     

    I'm Saxmeister, people usually just call me Sax. But, welcome to the forums! If you are trying to reply to someone else's post make sure of a few things....

     

    1. you are correctly logged in, which it looks like you are since your name is showing up and it allows you to post

     

    2. make sure you are actually in the forum thread you want to respond to

     

    3. look at the very top and very bottom of the displayed threads. There are two buttons that do exactly the same thing that say "ADD REPLY" and at the bottom is one called "QUICK REPLY". You can use either. QUICK REPLY is a quick and dirty version that won't allow you to add images or anything like that but it works great for simple text posting.

     

    See if these ideas don't help you out. We'd love to have input on the forums from fans such as yourself....

     

    Again, welcome to the club! :)

     

    -sax

     

    Addition: If you still don't have contributor's status you may not be able to reply to certain sections of the forum... I'm not sure how this works... but check and see if you can post in the top areas of the forum

     

    P.S. Sorry for the fanaticism of this group of people. We love our game and our hero so you can't really blame us for wanting everything perfect! ;) Seriously, we like to discuss as you have already noticed.

  7. I like the "hanging from a string" idea. I was leaning toward doing that with the legs but wasn't sure how it would look. Verl cool idea... :)

     

    Now, if we had to have fighter versions of these guys (kind of like the Keeper Enforcers in Thief:DS) then they could look a bit more like the warriors they are. I was thinking of different "classes" within their guild or group.... like the first sketch would be a leader or boss like Orland was in the Keepers in T:DS and the second sketch (here) could be an assassin of some sort....

     

    I still like the idea of them only controlling from the background and not really being fighters though. Just thoughts. Ignore me.. I'm just the sound guy who found some inspiration to do some sketching.... ;)

     

    -sax

    post-4-1107060806.jpg

  8. Here is a sketch of my take on what could be a leader from "The Order". Definitely a darker and moodier bunch than the wimpy Keepers... ;) I do like the idea of a dark mafia that isn't really involved in a hands-on way, but moves the story line along by shifting balances in the background...

     

    Possibly someone who floats and can cast spells like the shamens and priests of T:DS but not one you would actually fight.. remember, we don't fight with The Order.... they just control us!!!! I couldn't decide whether to have solid white eyes or almost black shiny eyes.....

    post-4-1107051512.jpg

  9. Okay, now try the link... I edited the last post I did and fixed it there as well... sorry! :(

     

    This one I wasn't sure what to use it for... city ambient sound when you first start?  maybe when player gets killed?  I'm not sure... listen and you decide. :)

     

    trippystring2.ogg

     

    Also, here's something for The Scary Place possibly. The loop has a little click at the end that I'm in the proces of fixing right now, but I wanted to get feedback before I finalized it....

     

    l7lowambient_loop.ogg

     

    Hawk, I'll process the chain sounds mor eheavily.. sorry... I'm such a wimp when it comes to special effects.. I never use enough... ;)

  10. Okay, more junk I'm doing right now.....

     

    Clock ticks for the mansion and other misc. places....

     

    Bells, bells, bells.... Clock tower bells, church bells, clock bells, etc.

     

    Loot pickup, new objective

     

    Ambient music for The Scary Place, The City, and Underground/Caverns/Sewers

     

    Wind sfx

     

    and revisions on previous samples....

  11. Gregorian

    Great stuff. I'm thinking of breaking it up into three files, much like they did in Thief with the SINGING1/2 files. They could then play randomly with a shader or similar.

     

    Sounds good to me..... Do you want me to do it or can you handle it easily enough right now?

     

    New objective

    Not bad, but keep experimenting. Also, I get some distortion the first instant of the sound. Maximised too much?

    Still working on it.... :)

     

    Waterdrips

    Also great. Maybe a tad longer than it needs to be, but don't bother with that, it's great.

    I can make it shorter if you'd like.... no problem!

     

    Machinehum

    Okey, that's it. No more machinehums people, we've got like 200 already.

    Oops! Sorry.... got a little excited there.... ;)

     

    Growl

    I don't know about this one. It just doesn't sound very intimidating to me. Go crazy with effects and see what you come up with!

    Ah, I was just messin' around and it sounded sort of neat. I didn't even think we had any creature growls in the game, but thought I'd share.... :)

     

    Ambient haunt

    Now that's more like it.  Pretty freeky in some spots. You could try to lower the background hum a little, especially if it's intended for looping, since it's kinda naggin.

     

    I'm on it... I'll post when I get that tweaked....

     

    About the tension loops, is there any reason to have the sound engine handle the fadein/fadeouts? Anyway:

     

    Sorry, wasn't sure if we should design a longer loop or if the sound engine did a lot of the looping. I think T1/T2 did that and used shorter loops that were pieced together... at least that's what it sound slike from the samples I've been studying... whatever you want I'll do! :)

     

    Ambloop 7

    Great. Feels very Thiefy.

    Ambsubstr

    Same goes for this one. Very Thief 2.

    That's what I was hoping for... ;)

     

    Amb underground

    This one is frickin awsome. Great job! Only thing is that it doesn't loop perfectly. But I dig the sounds. Reminds me of the bonehoard.

     

    Glad you like it. I was in the process of fixing the loop problem as you wrote, so I'm getting that fixed.... I'll post it when I've got it done..

     

    The wind sounds

    The first one is ok, but the second one is better.

    I can do more, but I wanted to have different types of wind.... some fast, outside, you-can-really-hear-it wind and some in-the-distance-not-so-easy-to-hear-and-somewhat-creepy wind. How's that for a long filename ;)

     

    The bell sounds

    Bell_01 and bells_02 are great. The deep one sounds.. weird. Sounds like a stereo effect gone wrong or something. The bell sound comes out of the right channel, and the bass sound from the left.

     

    Yeah, the deep one was an experiment to see what that would sound like. Sometimes experiments just don't go the way they ought to... ;)

     

    I'm in the process of making a larger bell for maybe the cathedral/church and some smaller bell sounds for the clocks in the mansion, etc.

     

    Thanks for the input!

  12. A few more sound samples for review....

    I've been working on some of the loop samples that could be used for a mood setting when entering an area of danger or interest. These smaller samples are looped but faded in and out by the sound engine.

    [url="http://www.myersmedia.net/darkmod/amb_loopL7.ogg"]ambient loop - amb_loopL7.ogg[/url]
    [url="http://www.myersmedia.net/darkmod/amb_substr01_loop.ogg"]ambient loop - amb_substr01_loop.ogg[/url]
    [url="http://www.myersmedia.net/darkmod/amb_underground.ogg"]ambient - underground[/url]
    [url="http://www.myersmedia.net/darkmod/amb_wind.ogg"]ambient - amb_wind.ogg[/url]
    [url="http://www.myersmedia.net/darkmod/amb_wind_lo.ogg"]ambient - amb_wind_lo.ogg[/url]

    Now, for some different bell sounds....
    [url="http://www.myersmedia.net/darkmod/bells_01.ogg"]bells_01.ogg[/url]
    [url="http://www.myersmedia.net/darkmod/bells_01_deep.ogg"]bells_01_deep.ogg[/url]
    [url="http://www.myersmedia.net/darkmod/bells_02.ogg"]bells_02.ogg[/url]
  13. Hey Dark,

     

    Very cool about the different levels of high airy stuff on the waves. That would work out great for being at different distances from the water! Another option would be to muffle it more through EQ and do the "underwater" effect cranking up the bass and low mids while sloping off the highs. Just another way of doing it, I guess. It's always good to have options! And I'm open to learning because we are always students of our art!

     

    The example file I posted in the T1/T2 Sound thread was actually a bit weird to show, sorry! It was a similar sound on both channels but with a delay so that's what made it look like it was off by a bit. Next time I'll pick better reference stuff! :)

     

    I did the same exact thing you did reversing one of the channels, but when I do it it sounds reversed... GoldWave seems to add some shimmer or sparkle to the sound when it does that. Maybe I'm just hearing things in a strange way, but that's what it sounds like on my machine???? But, it sounds like GoldWave and Sound Forge are extremely similar interface and featurewise so I wouldn't feel at a loss for not having a "professional" program. :)

     

    I have only used the Cakewalk Home Studio and Sonar apps. Many moons ago I used the Cakewalk basic sequencer that came with my old sound card on Windows 3.1, but it was terrible. The other products are excellent. Even the Home Studio version is extremely versatile and powerful. I actually do most of my sound design within the sequencer and layer different plug-ins/virtual instruments and recorded effects together to create the sounds I'm trying to get.

     

    I really like the sound you get in GoldWave, though. Have you tried Audacity as well? I've got it downloaded but haven't had time to try it yet. :(

     

    -sax

  14. The swirl tests really do add a certain "sparkle" to the sound fx. Using Sound Forge I don't get the same effect?!?!? :( Weird. What software do you use for sound editing, Dark?

     

    I really enjoyed all of the sfx, especially the ambient hum sounds. Great stuff! Nice sparkle to them and really warm sounding.

     

    The machine sounds are good as well. The only thing I can say about them is to make the file sizes smaller. I know you were probably making the files loop so that we could all hear what they would sound like in-game, but sounds like the machine_pump_1.ogg could probably do with cutting it down ot just one iteration of the pump and letting the sound engine loop it so you get a sound file at like 3KB instead of 46KB. I keep having to remind myself of these memory tricks as well and maybe we should all have some forum post that discusses this more.

     

    Some of the ambient loops could be the same way. The sounds are great! :) Just smaller file sizes to make the sound engine use less memory!

     

    I love the new harp sounds.... just right!!! Yeah! Perfect!

     

    Ocean sound.... is there anyway to add more "air" on the top of the sound? The sound itself is nice but it seems to be missing a bit of organic "splash". That's the only thing I could say about it.

     

    Great work! Keep it up!!!!! :) More, more, more.... ;)

  15. Agreed that sound should have different volume levels, but with the footsteps there hasn't been much difference in volume between "walking on carpet" and " walking on tile". Of course, the tile is heard more clearly simply because of the nature of the sound... more high-end transient sounds that carry much better.... but it would have a slight raise in volume level. This could be a good indicator to the player that they are walking loudly. But, on carpet the volume woul dhave to be louder simply so the player could hear their own footsteps.

     

    Again, it all comes down to what feels "right" in the game.

     

    As far as environmental things go, the general sound of a room is decided probably most likely by the sound engine itself. I was reading through some of hte docs on the Doom 3 sound engine and noticed the use of reverb. This reverb setting for each room will probably decided what the room will sound like. Presets could be made for each style of room.

     

    cathedral_01: lots of reverb, large room size, moderately fast early reflections, no damping

    bedroom_07: no reverb, small room size, extremely quick early reflections, 100% damping

    sewers_03: tons of reverb, medium room size, fast early reflections, 35% damping

     

    and so on, and so on....

     

    Does this seem like the answer to the question of sound environments?

×
×
  • Create New...