Elentarien

Thanks. That got it. All in all, fun mission, and the cathedral design inside was well done.

A bit stuck on this one. I've got all the objectives, and could end the mission, but it seems kind of unfinished if I do.

Ok, that works. *happily cheats her way through the haunted maps* lol Yeah, I know. . pathetic. But hey, even just damping the lights and sneaking through helps! I DID try - really try - to get a grip on the fighting. But after spending two hours just trying to get through it in the training mission, I got too frustrated, and my stress level went way too high for playing a game. Pfft. Then again, I was *HORRIBLE* fighting in Thief itself, too. I'm much better at the sneaking/waiting/listening then darting around than I am with fighting. (Even playing something like Skyrim that has a huge amount of fighting. . .I had to boost myself enough so 'my' method of fighting works. . .first find a mod to remove the blood textures. I really don't need to be grossed out, thank you! We know what really happens when something is stabbed, we don't need to see it. . . .then whack things until they fall down and stay down. Or, better, get a bow, sneak around and snipe them from far. . .far away. Though, my favourite method was getting two dogs, making them immortal, and letting THEM kill anything that bothered me while I continued to explore! ) I think thats one reason I liked Thief in the first place - was killing/fighting was NOT on the top of the list. Even fighting nasties like undead. Anyway, I do agree that Thief itself isn't that hard. Even new maps are, generally, only challenging in so far as the author makes it puzzle-wise. Or that hidden key/switch. The enemies are pretty mild, once you know how they work its fairly easy to avoid them/disable them and pull risks and stunts you wouldn't normally. You can - usually - get through using minimal equipment, as well. Few water arrows and not much else. Mostly. TDM has been fun too, in so far as that there are plenty of really challenging areas - sometimes even sneaking through can be hard when it seems the AI has eyes (or ears) in the back of its head and any move you make they zero in on. But at least with most enemies, if they are *TOO* difficult, you can work on taking them out entirely. Whereas the undead. . .yeah. Not so easy. Might be partly cringe-factor. They're nasty, they're ugly, they're creepy. . .and I'd rather run than face them or touch them. lol

Stealth is the way I've dealt with them in the past - though this current one I'm trying to do is making that difficult too, because of the flaming skeletons. . .which light you up and make everything see you. Bah. (Playing "The Rift" - only on the middle difficulty but as far as I've found there's a whole 1 water arrow for the whole game. Did buy some holy water at the loadout screen on the second attempt, but without more water arrows, thats not helpful!) Can't remember the other one I was playing where they seemed to hear me if I made the slightest move and kept trapping me in a tower because I couldn't move silent enough for them. lol Was really hoping I could just blow them up and make life easier. (Pity there's no cheat to let you give yourself a bit of equipment. . .)

Bah. Not nice for those of us who hate dealing with undead. Worse when the map only offers the sword and nothing else. *sniffs* After spending an hour trying to sneak up on one of these skeletons and knock its block off. . .yeah. . .isn't really happening. Never have been very good in fighting - neither in Thief nor in here. (very good? Thats an understatment. Have never won. )

Ok, I've done a search on the forums and come up with a couple threads, but none of them contained any clear, definitive answers, so I've got to ask again, for those of us who are to fog-headed to make it out. How does one deal with the various types of undead in the Dark Mod? To date, I have avoided any and all missions dealing with the undead. After trying one, with disastrous results one evening, and finding nothing I tried seemed to effect them, I went through and played all NON-Undead missions I could find. However, with a bunch of Halloween missions out now, my list of unplayed missions is starting to outweigh my played missions, so its time to start tackling those. But I still have NO idea how to efficiently deal with those nasty things. Need I mention, I'm in the 'I hate undead' camp? Last night I picked up a (seemingly) normal mission, only to discover it was a haunted one again. -sigh- Not sure what all is in there, since I can't get passed the skeletons - or, worse, flaming skeleton. Nor do I have any holy water. So, what does one do to have to remove: skeletons flaming skeletons haunts zombies <any others>? Flashbombs used to be my favourite device, but since those don't work here. . .and I'm not *THAT* good at ghosting. . .

beyondthesun, I had a bit of trouble finding how to get down the well too. Once I found the room I was missing, it was easy. But finding that took a bit of work. heh Still can't find out how to get out of the tunnels. I've run all over and have not found a key to unlock the darned doors.

Kinda stuck in a dumb place on this one. In the tunnels. . .and I can't find a way out. I mean. . .I SEE the way out - the cellar doors, but I can't figure out how to get them open. I have not found a key, and they're locked from both sides, and unpickable. Nor do I seem to be able to go back up the way I came. Where'd I miss the key? Thanks

Ok, got it finished. The fix worked. Key was in the same place, but I picked it up with no problems. . .no fancy climbing around. Found a few things I didn't find the first time through. Had a bit of trouble the second night. I chased the horse off while I was outside initially, and apparently EVERYONE decided that meant there was an intruder about. Did they go chase the horse or try to retrieve it? NOOOOO They all drew swords and stomped around inside making threats. pfft .Sometimes you really have to wonder about their intelligence. lol I did feel guilty about the poor horse, though. As a horse lover that was just mean and unacceptable! Had a bit of trouble with loot that night. The cash box area was too well lit and they kept catching me in there. Pfft.Eventually made up the difference by picking pockets. Pretty much ended up ghosting that night. Third night was fun, and pretty easy. Followed the other thief around a bit. Thought there should be an objective for stopping her, but even after dropping her in various places, nothing ticked off. I probably should have just left her awake. Not like she could steal much after I'd been through three times! I did find an 'extra' objective after . Completing that was obviously easy at that point. Was a bit curious about the whole 'mage mark' thing. A sequel, perhaps? I also got an 'extra' objective the objective just disappeared. Did not 'complete', it just. . .went away.All in all a great set of missions. I really liked the ending too. Great job.

Thank you for the patch. I'll pop it in and restart the mission sometime today. No worries. At least it was a bug you already knew about, even if it was rare. Oddly, its the first time I've actually hit a bug in the missions, apart from the whole rat-blocking-the-door thing in one other mission. lol At least you knew how to fix it! The key, I mean, not the rat. I did go exploring for other possible hidden objectives. . .tried to saddle the horse. I got it on him loosely, but after it thunking around noisily for a while, he bucked it off again and it sat there uselessly at his feet. lol Guess he didn't want to be ridden. Ok, off to try the mission again, and hopefully get that key. Thank you, again, for the fix!

Bit of a bug? In the first mission while trying to find the skeleton key. . .I found it But after jumping around like a mad thing, climbing up from the side, and finally running upstairs to get a bundle of something from the storeroom to stand on. . . the key isn't frobable? No highlight, clicking around like crazy won't let me pick it up. . .its just. . .stuck there. Or am I missing something obvious? Having lots of fun so far. I've found one 'hidden' objective - which was easy to complete. Cute! The candles in the

Just finished this one. LOVED it. It was not only fun to play - very Thiefy - but the story was interesting. Loved all the optional objectives (though I accidentally ended the mission on myself at one point by running out of the abandoned house to explore. Reloaded and got a 'closed but open' glitch. heh) and I liked being able to help people. Squeal on the warden, find the map for this historian, free the prisoner, NOT freeing the dangerous prisoners (though that took some experimentation!). And all the little 'sub-stories' going on. Made it alive and interesting. The Well was rather interesting too. Odd, but interesting. It was a nice switch not to have to sneak around. I DID miss the sword also. Reloaded and looked for it again today and finally found it. Duh. If it had teeth it probably would have bit me. *coughs* All in all, it was great fun. Thank you!

Thanks, grayman. Probably the one direction I didn't try. Heh Even with a nudge it took me a couple of tries to figure out what I could actually walk on. Not everything *LOOKS* like you can. All in all, I thoroughly enjoyed this one too. It was fun being able to run around randomly breaking into people's places as I went, and the various 'stories' of people along the way. I was a little disappointed with the end, though. After the strong story-coverage of the first mission, this one felt like a bit of a let down. We learn of several people, but aren't able to do anything about them. IE. . . .even something like planting his diary and the letters on Bier's desk or something. And the corrupt who was clearly doing *something*, and favouring the lazy cop instead of the one who was actually trying to do some good. It would have been nice to leave some evidence against him with Bier as well. Unless this is planned for the next mission, perhaps? : ) But yeah, this was fun to play. Lots of places to explore, plenty of loot - lots of screaming and plunging to our deaths. . .even some tight-rope walking and daring jumps!

Wow, another great FM and I'm not even that far in! Love the over all atmosphere, and general 'feel' of the city. It really does feel like a cramped part of town where people are stacked together. . .the well-to-do along with the 'poor' apartments of people just trying to get by. I have to say I liked hearing that baby crying too. . .it added a nice 'background' to the area thats often missing. (Though some of the newer FMs have dogs barking, or cats meowing, helping lend a little more 'unseen life' to the city.) I suppose children in general would be sleeping, but the baby was a nice touch. Now all we need are folks arguing in the background. My only 'complaint' so far is that its a bit easy to drop to street level without realizing you're doing so. Open stairs that are all inviting and poof, you're on street level and mission is ending. Or drop off this building onto the upper terrace there and. . .oops, I guess thats part of the 'street' too. Not that it makes much difference. I'm doing a fair bit to send the character screaming to his demise anyway, at least the street-fail is quiet! But. .yes. I'm stuck. Already. I can't figure out where to go. I've reached the clock tower area or the area with the crying baby and the statue and the archery range. . .and can't figure out how to proceed from there. I've backtracked a few times trying to find somewhere I missed, or a window that opens, or a place to put a rope arrow. . .and. . .I haven't found anything. Just more places to slip and splatter! A little nudge, please? Thanks.

Oh yeah. . .thank you! I'd completely forgotten about that entry. I had in my head that it referred to opening the catacombs - not a single tomb. Then I guess I forgot about it once I actually got in there. Doh. The irony was, I'd actually stopped at that point and was attempting to stab haunts in the back (didn't work, btw. heh) or KO them or something and apparently completely missed the . On the good side, I finished the remaining objectives without a problem. I enjoyed the mission thoroughly! I solved the rat problem by figuring out how to kill it. (Then felt exceedingly guilty and cruel when it squealed, got a bloody muzzle and went all limp and quivery. WAHHHHHH Even knowing its a game doesn't make me feel any better. Poor rat! I *LIKE* rats. . .and mice and small furry beasties. And these ones are rather cute. I should have taken the long way around!) Nice reward Its so nice to actually have a reward that FELT like you were being rewarded, rather than making you wonder why they thought that was actually a reward. ("Reward? You tell me one measly pair of candlesticks is the best you can do?!") Loved being able to help Trimble and his daughter. Made a good story better when you don't just take and can't DO much about the stories you see. Nice follow up on that too. It was sort of a 'reward' for helping, by being able to see what happens. Looking forward to playing the next mission now. Awesome job.

Ok, I think I'm being a bit dense. I've found - and since its the ONLY alternative one I can find, I'm going to assume its the right one. However, I'm supposed to put it and so help me, I can't seem to find *those*! lol Probably a bit backwards, I know. I did try dropping them on the altar/coffin/thingy in the middle of the chapel, but it just rolled off and didn't do anything, so apparently that's the wrong place. Also not having a ton of luck finding that I'm supposed to find. All in all, I'm really enjoying this mission. The extra stories, the atmosphere, the optional objectives. . .very thiefy. I'm actually even ghosting it for the most part (have KO'd a few that got in my way and I couldn't figure out how to get past, but most of them I'm leaving.) Having fun running around snuffing out candles, then throwing them across the room so that they won't be relit. lol I have run across a small bug. . .in that the gets 'blocked'. . .by a rat! Stupid rat is right in front of the door and try as I might I could not get the silly thing to move. Door won't open from either side because its blocked and the rat won't move on its own.(it sort of opens, but only a fraction, then the rat REALLY gets stuck, until I close the door again, then it goes back to scrabbling at the door. uh huh. . .) All I can say is that I hope I'm done down there. . .

Sounds interesting RJFerret. : ) I'll look forward to it. Yeah, sometimes I get a bit caught between what you're doing to people. . .and the fact that it IS just a game. (And, in that type of society, I think people actually did end up having to steal just to survive. Doesn't make it right, but sort of understandable in the world we're playing in.) But you feel kind of bad for getting other people in trouble while you sneak around. Then I get frustrated because they keep getting in my way and end up whacking them upside the head anyway. rotflol I do like Thief and this one, though. . .how you have the option to mostly leave people alone. I'll be interested to see how you handle things!

Its a good way to play. : ) Its kind of fun to imagine their reactions when they wake up. . .or what they'll think when they find you've just swiped something from under their noses. Of course, then you get to deal with feeling guilty at the end of a job. . .because you've probably just cost all those people their jobs. . .But apparently not too guilty, because we do it again in the very next FM!

Heh I've been doing that too - playing things on a lower difficulty because of that KO limit. I'm NOT a good ghoster. I mean, I can do it, but if I get stuck, or miss something, I get really frustrated having to criss-cross the same area a billion times and avoid the same guards dozens of times trying to find whatever I missed. I end up knocking them out, just to get them out of my way. Or, in a case like this FM I just finished. . .the routes were too short for me to work with and there wasn't enough places to hide without going back a fairly long way. It was easier to get them all out of the way. And, yeah, now I know that the drawn sword basically means I screwed up, I can be a bit more careful about my saves and paying attention to whether or not they put those swords away. And, Matoro. . .I don't stand and fight. I always run away. General policy of not killing anything - though if I get really frustrated I might try sniping an irritating guard from afar, but that rarely works (specially not in here where they can throw rocks at you!! Eeek!) Its easier to just whack them upside the head, or run away. But apparently in here, running away isn't a terribly good tactic. So. . ..I guess they all get headaches. Thats actually one thing I have always loved about Thief. . .the killing is unnecessary. I always get so frustrated with games that make you kill your way across a map . . and if you have to criss-cross it, its even more tiresome. (Sure, I play them a little, but they do get tiresome!) With Thief. . .and with TDM. . .killing is not generally part of the plan. And its a nice change. Less violence, more stealth. . .more story. Yay!

Yeah. . .two against an entire squadron of guards doesn't go very far. . .unless you get really clever. But, in my experience, even in Thief itself, to do that, you had to have a 'high point' or somewhere you could lure them all out safely, then flash/gas them when they all got there. And yeah, I think New Horizon is right. I spent two hours working on blackjacking a guard (with a helmet) with his sword out on that first mission I was stuck on. Before I caught on to the fact that he was on high alert already. NOTHING I tried worked (didn't have any equipment, either, except the BJ). But he did have a helmet on, too. So far, the missions I've played, I haven't seen many guards without helmets. pfft. I'll just restart and keep this in mind for the future. I'm glad I"m not glitched. I think it takes me a while to 'clue in' to the fact their swords are out and they're different. We're so used to seeing guards in Thief with their swords already drawn, it doesn't always click right away that these ones are different and you need to fall back a bit.

So much for that 'thrill' of escaping and being able to go back in to finish the job. *sniffs* Oh well, I guess those insane dashes through an area when you're threatened is never a great idea anyway.

Mrrfff! So you literally have to restart if you want things to be quiet again. -sigh- Ok Is there a way to BJ them if they are on that high alert? I tried killing one, but he just stood there and threw rocks at me instead of dying. Hah! (why he didn't chase me is anyone's guess. There was nothing stopping him!) Thanks for explaining that to me.

Ok, so I've been playing the standalone version for a bit now and for awhile there, I had a LOT of trouble with blackjacking. After watching the videos here about it, and taking the trainer, etc. I finally realized its because the mission I was so stuck on ALL the guards had their swords out. Every last one of them. Grrrr. So I restarted the mission - and got through it much better. Now I'm playing another - and am running into the same difficulty. I ran face first into a guard, and the whole place got alerted as I went tearing through there trying to find a place to hide. Finally got away by leaving the building entirely, waiting awhile and creeping back in. But, now - once again - every single guard in the place is on high alert, their swords drawn and even though they have no idea I"m there, they are not 'settling down' and going back to their jobs. IE, they are not resheathing their swords at all. If I could ghost the mission, I'd be ok, but there are some parts I can't dawdle in long enough to pick locks becasue they're too brightly lit and the patrol routes are too short. (A Thief's Vengeance, Pt 2, in case you're wondering. Some of those exhibits and corridors are too well lit. ) I thought if I let the game run for awhile, the guards would eventually forget about me and simmer down. But. . .despite letting it run in the background for a few hours, they are still stalking around waving their swords at every shadow. So, I guess, the question is. . .am I glitched or is this part of the programming and do I have to restart the mission *again* to get them to calm down? I even looked through the options to see if there was a way to shorten their alert times. . .but I didn't see anything. Pfft. Thanks!

Kinda sounds like a useless edition then, IMO. Makes you wonder why they released it in the first place - unless they didn't want people using mods. But yeah, a disclaimer, or a note up on the mod-download page where it tells people how to get started - or both - would be good. Oh well. I guess I'll guess I"ll have to wait on the stand alone. Which, I'm extremely glad is being worked on. I just. . .had hoped I could do the whole DarkMod thing *NOW*. But what can you do? Looks good, anyway, for the most part.

. . . ok. . .well that stinks. Especially as nothing I read said anything about that. It just said 'Doom 3'. Seems odd, too, when everything *ELSE* seems to work fine. Just those. . .odd spots. Well, I'll see if I can put up playing with black blobs. And if not, I guess the whole mess can go in the trash and I'll hope you all can get the stand-alone version going sometime so I can try again. How disappointing.