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peter_spy

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Everything posted by peter_spy

  1. There is no point in investing time in a feature which is doubtful to begin with, just because one person on the forums refuses to acknowledge that LOD refers to models, as it stands for Level Of Detail, and not Lights Off, Dumbass.
  2. I think it's kinda the other way around; if the level is samey, labyrinthine and it's too late to change it, auto-map can be added as an afterthought. Better level design is of course much better alternative. TPW is a great example that automap doesn't automatically make things better, since walking a few meters, checking the map, walking another few meters, checking the map, etc. isn't particularly interesting gameplay loop.
  3. Still waiting for an example where hiding a light both makes a meaningful difference and doesn't change visuals.
  4. That was written in 2010: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=LOD#Performance Given how many CPU generations we've seen since, I'd hazard a guess that you'll have a hard time creating a substantial CPU load, even if you had 16k thinking entities (which is the current limit IIRC).
  5. Yup. If you place IdMoveables on a model with LOD that is hidden at map start, they will fall on the floor. If the model is visible and you move away beyond the hide distance, they stay where they are.
  6. Have you tried making a beam with wood material, shooting a broadhead or rope arrow into it and then moving away beyond the hide distance? That seems like more practical example to me. Edit: to answer my own question, they appear and disappear along with the wood beam, nice! It seems like you found a corner case @Dragofer.
  7. You could either change AI health or arrow damage to kill these monsters faster, and/or use level design to teach the player that there's a certain hierarchy here. But yeah, 4 seems much, especially without any context.
  8. Opting for mini-maps and accurate maps in general is either forgetting or not knowing the long-time tradition of Thief games having inaccurate maps, so players can make a mental map out what they explored themselves. In this context in game maps are just a template.
  9. Yeah, and I think there is this quirk with hide 0/1 as well. If you set an entity to hide 1, it will go invisible on map start, but it will be solid. Set it to 0 and change it to 1 during gameplay, e.g. via trigger, the result will be nonsolid. Is it because of how .cm or .proc files are calculated?
  10. Smaller font looks good, on a 24" screen it could be even smaller, but if it's tweakable, that's great. I don't mind the current color (that saturation though...). If anything, it has to be versatile enough to work on both light and dark backgrounds, so white and black are off the table by default.
  11. Yup, the above makes sense. If you have an ambient + foglight + one regular light hitting those objects, they are already drawn 4 times. So hiding a light has the least impact, because you just remove one light pass + shadows (vs hiding objects, which removes all light passes and shadows). Perhaps one other thing to note is that the savings might look high, even with hiding just a light, because of the high material count and complexity stock TDM models can have (e.g. 5-8 materials per model). That much less of a gain with models typically optimized for games (using 1-2 materials max).
  12. Please stop derailing this discussion from what it was about.
  13. Oh god, please stop. This is embarrassing.
  14. Please stop pushing this nonsense, LOD system in TDM is and was a complete functionality already; it does what all other engines in the world do in that department. Your refusal / inability to understand the concept, and the context this system works in (proven by the wrong test maps you provided, despite several people giving you instructions), is your problem. Let others provide examples or test maps.
  15. That's a good practical example you can analyze. If it isn't too much to ask, you can try taking stats screnshots from the same spot and camera angle with: 1) both light and objects visible 2) light entity hidden and objects visible 3) light visible and objects hidden 4) all hidden The biggest stat difference will be between 1 and 4 obviously, but you should observe much bigger performance gain between 1 and 3, than from 1 and 2 or 3 and 4.
  16. Not really alternative, more like "historically established" and widely known If you take a look at various descriptions and definitions from other engines, all LOD systems are about the same thing: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/17283-hide_distance-broken-again/page/4/&tab=comments#comment-463315 and TDM follows that. You can argue that it's a bit broken here and there, or it has some quirks (like with absolute distances from the model instead of relative ones, like everywhere else), but otherwise it's there And in your example, you could simply hide stuff these lanterns light, because, as proven in the last screenshot in this post, the cost of your lights will be minimal: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/17283-hide_distance-broken-again/page/4/&tab=comments#comment-463272 That's the thing, and I'm really curious to see this looking good and giving meaningful performance boost at the same time. Since other engines have been around for so many years, and none of them is doing that, I think it's pretty safe to assume that other developers already tried it and it wasn't worth it / looked awful. As I said, it would be great to see a meaningful example, but so far we've got a lot of talking and examples that had nothing to do with the subject matter, despite explaining the thing several times over. Let's hope Kingsal comes up with something nice
  17. You don't see a reason because you lack experience and knowledge, you're so focused on "me me me, I want this, gimme!". I'm focused on the big picture, i.e. not being in a bubble, using the common knowledge and language, and working with what has already been established in gamedev, so the engine uses known workflows and isn't weird and insular for anyone coming here from outside. Not sure, but if you use hide 1 on an AI, it stops patrolling. It is there e.g. playing random barks, although it does not appear on the showtris view
  18. Lol, performance has nothing to do with feelings, it's about hard data And since you've been so stubborn in pushing your agenda, you should at least show that it was worth the effort and make an example scene where this looks good. Also, hide distance worked for AI for ages, but if you took more than a few seconds to examine how this works, it makes AI stop patrolling. If you use timing in your AI patrols to influence player pacing, and create interesting gameplay, this option is completely useless. It's only slightly above the feature that makes AI stop thinking when it's outside player view.
  19. Lately it's mostly level design stuff and trying to find interative workflow that is good for me. After hours of blocking out and discarding stuff, I finally got the first draft of a hub location that may actually work. Just finished gluing one of the other locations to it. Now onto designing the third one.
  20. That plan is good; if possible, I'd probably move the lighting phase onto the first place. If you focus on placing shadow casters so they don't overlap, and using noshadows lights as often as possible, you should have fewer performance problems down the line while adding more objects and geometry (you should be less restricted in doing so). That said, it's worth noting is that with stock TDM objects achieving good performance is an uphill battle, as they're not optimized like they typically are in games.
  21. Stuff like load map file preference is something you probably set once and forget about it. Wouldn't it be more convenient to have most of such options in a Preferences section instead of a widget? This way you could have just a minimal set of buttons/icons over the perspective window.
  22. @HMart you should be able to have detail textures with certain material keywords. You can do this by e.g. stacking normalmaps with addnormals, or by using gl blend modes. I'm using something a la detail noise texture in Rage, since one of the gl blend modes seems to work like Overlay mode in photoshop: Edit: sorry, you can't really make detail normalmaps with addnormals, since this is image programs territory and there is no option to tile the second normalmap there. It's quite confusing, because there's a scale keyword for image stage, which is responsible for tiling, and there's a scale image program function, which acts as a multiplier for image RGBA values. Two completely different things.
  23. By the way, I guess you'll see that in the code, but the way the lod_fadeout_range works right now makes it unusable with anything but LOD 0 models. Maybe it's because it uses hide_distance as a starting point instead of fading out to hide_distance? In any case, you can have a model with e.g. LOD 0 that is 3k tris and cast shadows, then LOD 1 that is 1k tris and noshadows, and when you reach the hide_distance, the model switches to LOD 0 again. Not only can this look bad, with shadows suddenly popping in before the model fades out, but I guess it can also generate unnecessary performance spikes, going from properly optimized models to full quality in the last stage.
  24. Note that mipmapping still applies here, although that still means keeping the base (highest resolution) texture in memory. Otherwise you can set different materials for different LOD levels, so they could use lower resolution textures, but IIUC, TDM would need to have texture streaming to use that effectively.
  25. I'm only mean because my god you're annoying To be fair, I much rather see such proof of concept from @kingsal who also showed interest in this feature; he's in touch with modern gamedev, and he knows the proper level design tips and tricks. Plus he already has experience with making such lights in his maps, so this way we'd be sure we're on the same page and his example is relevant.
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