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Nico A.

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Nico A. last won the day on March 27 2016

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About Nico A.

  • Birthday 12/18/1990

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    Lucid Dreaming, Space Colonization, Qualia, Game Programming, Daydreaming. Actually mostly daydreaming.

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  1. Ok, I see. So you mean there is no linear relationship between "player aptitude" and "loot collected", but for example logarithmic, or a step function, ... (or sth more complicated). However, I think that in any case it is almost always a positively ascending function: Finding a really precious piece of loot, however nonlinearly distributed, should usually be due to player aptitude. Sure, something really valuable could be randomly placed somewhere and only 5% of players are lucky to find it by chance, but why not reward them also? Well, not necessarily. Loot carryover could be made optional. Missions could start with the same amount of gold available irrespective of the previous' missions loot collection. In other words, this issue of loot carryover could be ignored completely (by setting the gold at the shop stage to fixed values) and there would still be a benefit IMHO regarding the thrill/immersion of playing a string of thematically associated missions (where seeing the next and progressing the story depends on the successful completion of the prior mission). So, in this case, there would be almost no change to the missions at all. (The savestate issue still remains tbh.) So rather than considering the loot issues a showstopper, I think it doesn't need to be considered an issue at all. That's true. I'd consider CMP as a irregularly updated "snapshot" for new players. Something along the lines of the unoffical TDM downloader - offered on the page to make life for new players easier. As a new player, I'd find it superweird to see the column with S and C on the mission downloads page - and C barely used even though there are clearly campaigns. I was confused at first and still am a little bit tbh. Definitely. I think it should be up to the campaign creators whether they want this or not. As for the benefit I'd like to disagree. I think it makes playing the missions way more attractive for new players. Again, I don't know if there are any right now and what the overall state of TDM is.
  2. I don't quite follow regarding the balancing difficulty. Wouldn't this be solved by following the below suggestions? - offer a separate Core Mission Pack ("CMP") (for new players mostly, if there are any RN), which include ready-mapped campaigns, .pk4-zipped together retrospectively. - a Development Mission Pack (DMP), including unzipped, uncompleted campaigns, for TDM enthusiasts (arguably >95% of all players ). So this is the default one that already exists. As the name suggests, this offers the most up-to-date mission list, with unzipped and incomplete campaigns. - this zipping-together for the CMP campaigns could be done almost automatically, except the loot balancing. For that, mission authors would first need specify an easy amount and a near-impossible amount of pre-shop gold available for successul mission completion. The more narrow this range, the easier it would be to specify. These min-max values are then transformed based on the possible min/max loot from the previous mission via variables and/or described in this section. Watcha think? I had a quick look at the 146 entries and it looks like they are rather easily discernible, mostly with the syntax "[campaign name] [number] [mission name]". What did I miss and/or what do you suggest?
  3. How time flies... I just spent an hour looking a bit into things to get a rough overview. Here's the "progress": - read the thread again to re-aquaint myself with the state of affairs - downloaded No Honor Among Thieves and compared the files with the campaign tutorial I think the tutorial is rather straightforward and seems to include most of the functionality discussed here. Next I will try to set up some dummy missions myself and play with the values. Also I'd like to get an overview over campaigns that are completed and could be bundled together retrospectively.
  4. @Darkpixel I might have a look into that, since that's a feature I'd like to see in TDM. My programming experience is medium at best, but I can give it a try. I'd give it 20% that there'll be a useful end result, my time and concentration levels is also not super high. It could help with motivation if we could team up and chat about some milestones. In my opinion, that would also be something for newcomers who want to have a better overview and want more immersion in the sense of a completed game. Nevertheless there should still be an option to download the missions individually, as demagogue said.
  5. Seems fascinating to me... It sounds like this individual is not really "known" in the TDM community? Did anyone talk to him/her about intention of this game? Do you know whether this person would accept help from an accomplished community building a medieval stealth game (the TDM community, that is ) - and if so, would some of you consider splitting your workload between TDM and this new stealth game project? edit: I just watched the first demo video. Apart from the running speed, which is hilariously off (way too fast), I freaking love what I see here... edit 2: The menu style seems heavily TDM-inspired (though really unpolished still from an arty perspective - I think menus / GUIs are still placeholders)
  6. So, here's another round of chronological talk about MP (I selected between and within posts, so this is no exhaustive or even objective representation of the discussion). Some themes that come up multiple times are: 1. Implementing MP is very difficult but not impossible, maybe an independent party could have a crack at it. 2. the theme of "frobbing" comes up several times (but I'm sure it's only one example of a lot of things that'd need tweaking) 3. "Thievious" seems to be (have been?) another Mod project in the style of Thief with MP in mind, although at least the link above seems to be dead. I didn't search further about this yet.
  7. The earliest MP-related posts in this forum. I only did a quick search and might missed important discussion points, but hopefully not. Will search for newer posts later (Disclaimer: selected for relevance IMHO and edited for conciseness - click on the quote's link to find the original posts) (... lot of talk about Nightblade so far. I don't know it, maybe I should also look into this.)
  8. Agree. My point above was not to point out a short-coming, but rather a positive point (i.e. no need to offer just one mode). Anyway, I might as well get started forking (not even sure if that's the right term, that's how noob I am) TDM and start crafting about. Don't imagine I ever finish, but I'll try to keep it orderly in case anyone wants to ship in/take over.
  9. I agree with your post almost 100% except for this point. I think your falsely equating coop/comp with friends/strangers-over-servers. How about you make an appointment with friends and still have a competitive mode - namely when it is not shown/known who plays which character in the game? Think the werewolf game, for example (or any semi-cooperative game for that matter).
  10. Good point! I guess when tackling on such a task, one needs to find different rewards whilst doing it. Like, completing a project that has taught a lot of programming/server/... lessons on the way. So then, even when it becomes a ghosttown, it was not all for nothing. Also, the way I imagine is not that people meet randomly on servers. Rather, I think a few people make an "appointment" in these forums here and then 5-15 people play a map maybe once a month or so. That's how I imagine it, again, I could be completely off (I have no experience on which to base my estimates on).
  11. What specific technical aspects make TDM most feasible for a TDM MP version? This questions sounds strange I guess. But as OrbWeaver pointed out, TDM is optimized for AI and visibility depending on static/dynamic light (reflections). So of course, that's needed in your coop description. But in your competitive style MP idea, is there also AI? (Again, I have no MP experience in general ^^) And on a related note, how ensure that real-player guards experience the same visibility that the thieves' light gem indicates? I guess light settings in the game have to be really low? Or should the thieves in complete shadows be actually invisible until the player guard comes close enough - event though player guards don't see complete darkness but ambient lights? Without much knowledge about game engines and the TDM structure in particular, it's impossible for me to say if TDM is the correct platform. But it seems so, if: maps do include AI the MP mode should be seen as an extension of TDM rather than a semi-related side project. See my last bullet point above. In order to get a quicker version of MP in place, one should not start with unconventional, harder to implement ideas. However, IF there is a MP in place sometime with TDM, esp. a competitive mode, I'd love attempting to implement the idea above as another possibility Alternatively of course, I might have a look into OS game engines - and how to export assets from TMD and import these to the new engine in a streamlined process. In the unlikely case of ever finishing such a mammoth project, I think the TDM should decide if it should carry a "TDM" label then.
  12. @OrbWeaver this makes a lot of sense, thanks! I heard about Thievery before, don't know why I never tried it... let's give it a shot! Ok then, since I agree that the TDM engine is not the most suitable for a MP project, this thread can be moved elsewhere I guess. But please don't delete it
  13. Okay, I'd like to throw in one idea. Open the spoilers for several disclaimers. Imagine 1. a real-time, online Multiplayer for Dark Mod (or similar 3D-first-person-medieval-theft-style game inspired by thief) 2. every real person has an account with a virtual money balance as acquired by playing the game 3 however, if one's virtual character dies, so does the account, and then the money is gone. One can decide to start fresh with a new account though. 4. top players and their accounts are listed somewhere on the games central website, bla bla bla, so there is motivation to have a long-lived character with a lot of money So far so good (?). Now for some gameplay specifics: 5. there are maps, of course. Everyone is free to design Maps. (since availability of maps is certainly one of the bigger bottlenecks, the initiative for someone to submit a map should be rewarded, or at least not made difficult). 6. There is an official entrance for the map, where the guards enter. And then there is a (or several?) inoffical entrance(s). There thieves might enter. The map creator is responsible for making sure both types of entrances (official and inoffical) exist. (As with single-player maps, the map creator should make sure there are official and inofficial routes throughout - in other words, an interesting, explorable, thief-style map). 7. The map creator is also responsible for making some riddles, which potential thiefs must solve in order to get into the map. Riddles should be hard (only solvable with a "hacker-mentality" - think of the cognitive tasks thieves face when trying to get entrance to a complicated system) (or, metaphorically speaking - the thieves play out their own version of a cutscene before a heist - of course only in their mind, not with a video ) 8. The goal of the guards is to, well, guard a specific object (or keep thieves from achieving a certain objective) for a certain amount of time. If they succeed, they will be paid accordingly (or rather the player's accounts)). 9. Per map, there is a maximum number of guards. This number is defined by the map creator. Also, the map creator equips each guard. Before a map starts, each guard position must be filled. If more people are interested than open positions exist, there will be a competitive selection procedure (maybe one-on-one fights in a "sandbox" mode against contestants? Or a quiz how well they are familiar with the map they want to guard?) 10. Importantly, the map creator CANNOT specify routes of guards. This is up to the players playing the guards. 11. Even more importantly - the group of guards do not know when of even if thieves will appear. This should encourage patrolling-style behaviors automatically. 12. The entrance riddle of thieves should be difficult. This is the main trade-off for the lucrative prize, together with the high guards:thieves ratio. 13. Within the map, there is no chat. People (guards and thieves) should only be allowed to cooperate via game-play elements. Therefore, guards writing letters should be possible, but thieves might steal this information within the map. (maybe talking is also possible, but this should be audible in a realistic way - thieves should be careful to not raise their voices and were they want to speak) 14. When the set time for a map is done, the players may decide each time if they want to play for the guards or the thieves next time. All in all, I believe this gameplay style would offer trade-offs for each party (guards, thieves) to make it difficult for both but balanced. Going back to the disclaimer: I'm aware that the online, real-time nature of my suggestion is difficult to implement at best, impossible at worst. But then, why these specific ideas? I believe such an approach could circumvent several dangers Dark Mod is facing: - rather unrealistic/easy AI --> not an issue here, because there is no AI, only natural human intelligence. - small ratio between map playing time : map creation time (not so much an issue as maps may be reused, but the feel for the mission is kinda new each time) - this might inspire some opening up of the community to new players, or encourage people to hand in maps, with the prospect that they might be used in a real-time, MP, higher-stakes scenario. So! I think I'm ready now being torn apart by you guys
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