Mik James

I've owned amd cards and Nvidia cards throughout a few generations. On the amd side: Hd4670, Hd6950, Hd7970, R9 290. On the Nvidia side: Gtx 460, Gtx 780, Gtx 980 (current). The one sticking point that pushes me towards Nvidia is opengl performance. It's been a problem for as long as I can remember and I'm not sure Amd has actually done anything about it beyond a few placating words to gamers. The most recent game I had trouble with was Trine Enchanted Edition, which I believe runs on Opengl much like the dark mod. Going from the R9 290 to the Gtx 980 was a night and day difference, far more than the average difference in fps in Directx games. It basically went from an unplayable 30 fps at lowest settings on the R9 to nearly 60fps on high settings on the Gtx980. All the while the improvement in other games was marginal at best. I haven't played the Dark mod in awhile (Thief fm backlog), so I'm curious to hear the experience of other users with Amd cards. I think the last time I played tdm was with the Hd7970, and I had to turn down a few settings (mainly AA) to get a smooth 40+ fps, I seem to remember maxing it out on the Gtx 460 back in the day. Let's get a discussion going here and if I'm not crazy/other people are having similar issues, maybe we can sticky it this time to let Amd know it isn't appreciated.

Hmm, I didn't time it. I only have an fx 4350 though so it may have something to do with single thread performance. I patiently await the improvements though

Had to check "disable scaling at high dpi" in the compatibility section of the darkmod.exe. Worked like a charm.

Indeed I noticed little if any realworld difference on a ram disk myself. Maybe i've become spoiled by ssd's and better optimized engines but I just can't get into Dark Mod as it is. It also doesn't help that the dark engine games have received so many improvements over the last few years. Probably best to wait until the Crucible campaign is complete anyways

As Tdm missions have become more complex and larger the load times have continued to increase. This would be alright if they were reasonable to begin with. Playing Crucible of Omens running off a Samsung 850 evo ssd I get about 1 minute of loading time. My best uneducated guess is too many assets are loaded at mission start rather than dynamically loading them in over time? My other thought is this engine may not be suitable for dynamically loading assets and by extension large in game areas? I suppose it was originally running Doom 3, a corridor style shooter from what I've seen. Just speculation but it definitely negatively impacts the experience for me. Most of my games load up missions within 10-20 seconds. Seems like the only way to enjoy Dark mod will be to fire up the ram disk.

I think were probably just grasping at straws here. No worries it looks fine at 1600x900 and it's not worth the trouble. For what it's worth I had the same issue last time with an amd 6950. I'll be switching to an Nvidia card soon for better opengl performance and less driver headaches. I'll keep this thread in mind and try to report back. Thanks for trying Now off to play crucible, never thought it would see the light of day!

51f5300b. No luck with those settings. Never had this issue before, my desktop is definitely set at 1080p and windowed or fullscreen both show the same issue.

That just sends an input of 800x600 to my display.

unbindall bind "ENTER" "_impulse51" bind "ESCAPE" "togglemenu" bind "SPACE" "_moveup" bind "-" "_impulse50" bind "0" "_impulse10" bind "1" "_impulse1" bind "2" "_impulse2" bind "3" "_impulse3" bind "4" "_impulse4" bind "5" "_impulse5" bind "6" "_impulse6" bind "7" "_impulse7" bind "8" "_impulse8" bind "9" "_impulse9" bind "=" "_impulse49" bind "[" "_impulse48" bind "\" "_mlook" bind "]" "_impulse47" bind "^" "_impulse0" bind "a" "_moveleft" bind "c" "_impulse24" bind "d" "_moveright" bind "e" "_impulse46" bind "f" "_impulse44" bind "g" "inventory_use '#str_02396'" bind "i" "inventory_cycle_group '#str_02391'" bind "k" "inventory_cycle_group '#str_02392'" bind "l" "inventory_use '#str_02395'" bind "m" "inventory_cycle_maps" bind "o" "_impulse19" bind "p" "inventory_cycle_group '#str_02389'" bind "q" "_impulse45" bind "r" "_impulse52" bind "s" "_back" bind "u" "_impulse51" bind "v" "inventory_hotkey '#str_02397'" bind "w" "_forward" bind "x" "_impulse23" bind "y" "clientMessageMode 1" bind "z" "_zoom" bind "BACKSPACE" "inventory_hotkey" bind "PAUSE" "pause" bind "UPARROW" "_forward" bind "DOWNARROW" "_back" bind "LEFTARROW" "_left" bind "RIGHTARROW" "_right" bind "ALT" "_strafe" bind "CTRL" "_button5" bind "SHIFT" "_speed" bind "DEL" "_lookdown" bind "PGDN" "_lookup" bind "END" "_impulse18" bind "F3" "_impulse17" bind "F4" "savegame quick" bind "F5" "loadgame" bind "F6" "_impulse20" bind "F7" "_impulse22" bind "F9" "loadgame quick" bind "F12" "screenshot" bind "MOUSE1" "_attack" bind "MOUSE2" "_impulse41" bind "MOUSE3" "_zoom" bind "MWHEELDOWN" "_impulse14" bind "MWHEELUP" "_impulse15" seta gui_mediumFontLimit "0.30" seta gui_smallFontLimit "0.15" seta radiant_entityMode "0" seta net_socksPassword "" seta net_socksUsername "" seta net_socksPort "1080" seta net_socksServer "" seta net_socksEnabled "0" seta win_ypos "0" seta win_xpos "0" seta sys_lang "english" seta s_decompressionLimit "6" seta s_useEAXReverb "0" seta s_useOpenAL "0" seta s_libOpenAL "openal32.dll" seta s_numberOfSpeakers "2" seta s_doorDistanceAdd "450" seta s_globalFraction "0.8" seta s_subFraction "0.75" seta s_playDefaultSound "1" seta s_volume_dB "0" seta s_meterTopTime "2000" seta s_reverse "0" seta s_spatializationDecay "2" seta s_maxSoundsPerShader "0" seta r_screenshot_format "jpg" seta r_debugArrowStep "120" seta r_debugLineWidth "1" seta r_debugLineDepthTest "0" seta r_cgFragmentProfile "best" seta r_cgVertexProfile "best" seta r_forceLoadImages "0" seta r_shadows "1" seta r_skipBump "0" seta r_skipSpecular "0" seta r_skipNewAmbient "0" seta r_renderer "best" seta r_brightness "1" seta r_gamma "1" seta r_swapInterval "0" seta r_useIndexBuffers "1" seta r_customHeight "1080" seta r_customWidth "1920" seta r_fullscreen "0" seta r_mode "-1" seta r_multiSamples "0" seta image_downSizeLimit "256" seta image_ignoreHighQuality "0" seta image_downSizeBumpLimit "128" seta image_downSizeSpecularLimit "64" seta image_downSizeBump "0" seta image_downSizeSpecular "0" seta image_useCache "0" seta image_cacheMegs "20" seta image_cacheMinK "200" seta image_usePrecompressedTextures "1" seta image_useNormalCompression "2" seta image_useAllFormats "1" seta image_useCompression "1" seta image_preload "1" seta image_roundDown "1" seta image_forceDownSize "0" seta image_downSize "0" seta image_lodbias "0" seta image_anisotropy "1" seta image_filter "GL_LINEAR_MIPMAP_LINEAR" seta gui_filter_game "0" seta gui_filter_idle "0" seta gui_filter_gameType "0" seta gui_filter_players "0" seta gui_filter_password "0" seta net_clientDownload "1" seta net_master4 "" seta net_master3 "" seta net_master2 "" seta net_master1 "" seta net_clientMaxRate "16000" seta net_serverMaxClientRate "16000" seta m_strafeSmooth "4" seta m_smooth "1" seta m_strafeScale "6.25" seta m_yaw "0.022" seta m_pitch "0.022" seta sensitivity "5" seta in_toggleZoom "0" seta in_toggleCrouch "0" seta in_toggleRun "0" seta in_alwaysRun "0" seta in_freeLook "1" seta in_anglespeedkey "1.5" seta in_pitchspeed "140" seta in_yawspeed "140" seta gui_configServerRate "0" seta com_guid "" seta com_preloadDemos "0" seta com_compressDemos "1" seta com_product_lang_ext "1" seta com_videoRam "128" seta com_showFPS "0" seta com_purgeAll "0" seta com_machineSpec "-1" seta g_spectatorChat "0" seta net_clientLagOMeter "1" seta r_postprocess_bloomKernelSize "2" seta r_postprocess_bloomIntensity "0" seta r_postprocess "0" seta net_serverDlTable "" seta net_serverDlBaseURL "" seta net_serverDownload "0" seta mod_validSkins "skins/characters/player/marine_mp;skins/characters/player/marine_mp_green;skins/characters/player/marine_mp_blue;skins/characters/player/marine_mp_red;skins/characters/player/marine_mp_yellow" seta g_mapCycle "mapcycle" seta g_voteFlags "0" seta g_gameReviewPause "10" seta g_countDown "10" seta g_password "" seta g_testModelHeadJoint "Spine2" seta g_testModelHead "atdm:ai_head_citywatch" seta g_showBrass "1" seta g_showProjectilePct "0" seta g_showHud "1" seta g_showPlayerShadow "0" seta pm_walkspeed "70" seta g_showcamerainfo "0" seta g_damageScale "1" seta g_decals "1" seta g_doubleVision "1" seta g_bloodEffects "1" seta g_projectileLights "1" seta g_muzzleFlash "1" seta gui_CenterY "0.5" seta gui_CenterX "0.5" seta gui_Height "1.0" seta gui_Width "1.0" seta r_fovRatio "0" seta r_aspectRatio "1" seta ui_showGun "1" seta ui_autoSwitch "1" seta ui_team "Red" seta ui_skin "skins/characters/player/marine_mp" seta ui_name "Player" seta si_serverURL "" seta si_spectators "1" seta si_usePass "0" seta si_warmup "0" seta si_teamDamage "0" seta si_timeLimit "10" seta si_fragLimit "10" seta si_maxPlayers "4" seta si_map "game/mp/d3dm1" seta si_gameType "singleplayer" seta si_name "DOOM Server" seta tdm_lod_bias "1.0" seta tdm_voice_from_off_volume "0" seta tdm_voice_player_volume "0" seta tdm_music_volume "0" seta tdm_ambient_method "0" seta tdm_door_auto_open_on_unlock "1" seta tdm_bow_aimer "0" seta tdm_lp_debug_hud "0" seta tdm_lp_pawlow "0" seta tdm_lp_randomize "1" seta tdm_lp_auto_pick "0" seta tdm_lp_autopick_attempts "3" seta tdm_lp_pick_timeout "500" seta tdm_lp_sample_delay "10" seta tdm_lp_base_count "5" seta tdm_empty_model "models/darkmod/misc/system/empty.lwo" seta tdm_lg_split "0" seta tdm_lg_model "models/darkmod/misc/system/lightgem.lwo" seta tdm_lg_weak "0" seta tdm_lg_interleave "1" seta pm_rope_snd_rep_dist "32" seta pm_min_stepsound_interval "200" seta pm_stepvol_crouch_creep "-7" seta pm_stepvol_crouch_run "4" seta pm_stepvol_crouch_walk "-2" seta pm_stepvol_creep "-5" seta pm_stepvol_run "8" seta pm_stepvol_walk "0" seta tdm_underwater_blur "3" seta tdm_rope_pull_force_factor "140" seta tdm_inv_use_visual_feedback "1" seta tdm_door_control "0" seta tdm_inv_use_on_frob "1" seta tdm_inv_loot_sound "frob_loot" seta tdm_inv_hud_pickupmessages "1" seta tdm_hud_hide_lightgem "0" seta tdm_hud_opacity "0.7" seta tdm_grabber_reverse_control "0" seta tdm_bounce_sound_min_vel "80" seta tdm_bounce_sound_max_vel "400" seta tdm_throw_max_vel "900" seta tdm_throw_time "1200" seta tdm_throw_max "3500" seta tdm_throw_min "600" seta tdm_phys_show_momentum "0" seta tdm_ai_hearing_hardcore "1.5" seta tdm_ai_hearing_challenging "1.0" seta tdm_ai_hearing_forgiving "0.6" seta tdm_ai_hearing_nearly_deaf "0.2" seta tdm_ai_hearing "2" seta tdm_ai_vision_hardcore "1.5" seta tdm_ai_vision_challenging "1.2" seta tdm_ai_vision_forgiving "0.6" seta tdm_ai_vision_nearly_blind "0.2" seta tdm_ai_vision "1" seta tdm_melee_difficulty "normal" seta tdm_melee_max_particles "10" seta tdm_melee_forbid_auto_parry "0" seta tdm_melee_auto_parry "0" seta tdm_melee_invert_parry "0" seta tdm_melee_invert_attack "0" seta tdm_melee_mouse_thresh_ "0" seta tdm_dragged_item_highlight "1" seta tdm_drag_encumber_max "0.4" seta tdm_drag_encumber_maxmass "55" seta tdm_drag_encumber_minmass "10" seta tdm_drag_jump_masslimit "20" seta tdm_drag_af_free "0" seta tdm_drag_af_ground_timer "800" seta tdm_drag_damping_af "0.4" seta tdm_drag_damping "0.0" seta tdm_drag_stuck_dist "38.0" seta tdm_drag_force_max "100000" seta tdm_drag_limit_force "1" seta tdm_collision_damage_scale_horiz "0.5" seta tdm_collision_damage_scale_vert "1" seta tdm_frob_fadetime "100" seta tdm_frob_width "10.0" seta tdm_frob_distance_default "63" seta pm_lean_toggle "0" seta pm_lean_door_bounds_exp "8.0" seta pm_lean_door_max "40" seta pm_lean_door_increments "10" seta pm_lean_to_valid_increments "25" seta pm_lean_forward_stretch "15" seta pm_lean_forward_height "0.4" seta pm_lean_forward_time "400.0" seta pm_lean_forward_angle "2" seta pm_lean_stretch "2" seta pm_lean_height "0.4" seta pm_lean_time "400.0" seta pm_lean_angle "15.0" seta tdm_reattach_delay "100" seta tdm_crouch_toggle_hold_time "400" seta tdm_toggle_crouch "1" seta tdm_footfall_sounds_movetype_specific "1" seta pm_mantle_minflatness "0.707" seta pm_mantle_height "0.2" seta pm_mantle_reach "0.5" seta pm_weightmod "1" seta pm_push_max_mass "200" seta pm_push_heavy_threshold "0.15" seta pm_push_accel_time "1000" seta pm_push_start_delay "1000" seta pm_push_maximpulse "300" seta pm_pushmod "0.15" seta pm_max_swimspeed_mod "1.4" seta pm_crouchmod "0.54" seta pm_creepmod "0.44" seta pm_runmod "2.12" seta tdm_savegame_compress "1" seta tdm_force_savegame_load "0" seta tdm_mainmenu_confirmquit "1" seta tdm_debug_aastype "aas32" seta tdm_allow_http_access "1" seta tdm_proxy_pass "" seta tdm_proxy_user "" seta tdm_proxy "" seta tdm_fm_restart_delay "0" seta tdm_default_relations_def "atdm:team_relations_default" seta tdm_show_trainer_messages "1" seta tdm_menu_music "1" seta tdm_wideScreenMode "7" seta tdm_interaction_vfp_type "1" seta tdm_ai_show_aasfuncobstacle_state "0" seta tdm_show_health "0" seta tdm_ai_debug_greetings "0" seta tdm_ai_debug_transition_barks "0" seta tdm_ai_opt_update_enemypos_interleave "48" seta tdm_ai_opt_interleavethinkframes "0" seta tdm_ai_opt_interleavethinkskipPVS "0" seta tdm_ai_opt_interleavethinkmaxdist "0" seta tdm_ai_opt_interleavethinkmindist "0" seta tdm_ai_visdist_show "0.0" seta tdm_ai_search_show "0.0" seta tdm_showko "0" seta tdm_showsprop_radius "0" seta tdm_showsprop "0" seta tdm_spr_debug "0" seta tdm_sndprop_disable "0" seta tdm_ai_acuity_susp "1.2" seta tdm_ai_acuity_L5 "1.5" seta tdm_ai_acuity_L4 "1.3" seta tdm_ai_acuity_L3 "1.1" seta tdm_ai_show_conversationstate "0" seta tdm_ai_show_enemy_visibility "0" seta tdm_ai_sight_scale "1000.0" seta tdm_ai_sight_thresh "1.0" seta tdm_ai_showelevator "0" seta tdm_ai_showdoor "0" seta tdm_ai_debug_blocked "0" seta tdm_ai_showAASarea "0" seta tdm_ai_showgoalpos "0" seta tdm_ai_showdest "0" seta tdm_ai_showalert "0" seta tdm_ai_showtasks "0" seta tdm_ai_showanimstate "0" seta tdm_ai_showko "0" seta tdm_ai_showfov "0" seta tdm_ai_debug "0" seta tdm_ai_bumpobject_impulse "250" seta tdm_ai_tact "20.0" seta tdm_ai_sight_combat_cutoff "20.0" seta tdm_ai_sightmin "15.0" seta tdm_ai_sightmax "40.0" seta tdm_ai_sight_mag "1.0" seta tdm_ai_sight_prob "0.7" seta tdm_ai_showname "0" seta tdm_ai_showbark "0" seta tdm_ai_sndvol "0.0" seta tdm_player_wait_until_ready "1"

It's currently set at 1 by default.

I have a 1080p Samsung plasma set for 1:1 pixel mapping at 1080p. When I boot up tdm at 16:9 1080p only 2/3 of the game is displayed, scaled to cover the entirety of my screen. Amd 7970 with latest driver.

Trust me I would like nothing more than for lcds to be good enough for me. The largest roadblocks to lcd that i've encountered in the past were color/shade switch motion performance/ghosting and price (I haven't read anything to indicate this is fixed by refresh rate/strobing) The only plasmas really worth having in my opinion are the 2012-2013 Panasonics, 2nd gen Kuros and 2014 Samsungs. The Samsungs are less desirable though as they have trouble holding the (much better than Lg) black level/mll in brighter mixed scenes (low ansi) and I feel like a local dimming lcd like the Vizios would provide better performance in that area as well as much better brightness. In short I would love to have an Lcd that does not show ghosting, has a good local dimming implementation and performs well in ambient light. Unfortunately only 2/3 are covered at the moment as far as I know.

Where was this comparison made? Hopefully not in a brightly lit big box store with a few uncalibrated torch mode displays. You'll also see that I didnt mention lg plasmas, this is due to the poor contrast on lg plasmas in comparison to Samsung and especially Panasonic.

Plasma Sets made after 2012 by Panasonic or Samsung if you can find them. They provide very good motion performance and rediculously good contrast compared to lcds. Local dimming lcd sets. Sharp Elite (Pricey), Vizio P series (More affordable) or other local dimming full array backlight sets in between. The problem with buying a small monitor or tv and expecting quality is the fact that there is far less profit for the manufacturer in smaller sets. That's not to say that anything edge lit led/lcd isn't completely worthless as a display technology, regardless of size. Edge lit lcds are the enemy of picture quality RUN (don't walk) away from them as fast as you can, always go for a full array backlight ideally with local dimming. On the cheap you can drag in a 200+ pound behemoth of a hd widescreen crt rear projection set and take the time to restore the picture quality by following the guides over at avs forum. Expect to put about 30 hours of work in for a good image with tweaks and mods, and don't forget about the risk of death from electric shock when adjusting the crt focus controls . I went this route but I sure as heck wouldn't reccomend it unless your very nostalgic about crt, plasmas have surpassed the image quality for the most part anyways. You may also find some crt front projectors as well or smaller direct view crt sets.

The valve vive should be out by the end of the year. I would also keep an eye out for the totem vr headset, and the razer vr headset. The totem specs a 1440p screen and the razer should make for a low cost vr solution.

Figured out very little, bought a f5300b plasma on sale for 460$ taxes in My opinion on the picopro is it just doesn't deliver for image quality, but I did pay an extra 200$ for it in Canada so it might be worth it to those who can easily return it.

The pico pro has no adjustments. Ill play around with it some more and see what I can figure out though.

Didn't actually get to playing the dark mod with this. I haven't had anything thief installed lately due to the lack of a suitable display. This does not appear to fill that niche. I watched Star Trek Into Darkness and played some elder scrolls 4 and 5 as well as Styx master of shadows. Let's start with the bad, unfortunately there's plenty of it 1) Dark scenes appear to exhibit a lot of posterization on the pico pro, it makes everything look like the good old software mode back in the original thief game for those who didn't have 3d acceleration on their gpu. I tried both rgb full and rgb limited in the and graphics settings and the effect is still there. 2) The contrast and sharpness are not comparable to oled. Their is a softness to the image, which I believe is due to low ansi contrast. Fine dark details in brighter areas of a displayed image are not as pronounced as they should be. 3) Laser speckle is noticeable if you look for within brighter parts of the image. A finer screen texture appears to help along with a pure white surface to project on, however this will limit contrast on screen in an untreated room. 4) The lasers require alignment, similar to crt, except with the pico pro there are 2 red beams and 2 green beams that need to be aligned as well as the blue beam. A pain to get excellent alignment to say the least. 5) The laser light aperture is rated 3r, which makes me a little uneasy about accidentally looking into the beam. The good: 1) The image is plenty bright for me in a dark room at about 50-60" with a white surface. 2) Motion clarity is very good as far as I can tell 3) It's portable and silent. 4) No color trailing/phosphor lag/rainbows. 5) No visible pixel structure The verdict: I really hope someone can prove me wrong about the posterization, as that was the final nail in the coffin for me. Even if the posterization can be worked around, you shouldn't buy this expecting a pocketable oled screen. It is no where near as sharp, and front projection requires a treated dark walled room to achieve the same sort of contrast a flat panel or rear projection setup can offer, especially on the white surface this requires for reasonable brightness.

Just arrived today. Ill wait until nightfall to commence with my thievery under the cover of darkness

Plasma was very close. If I could find a 2013 Panasonic around here on the used market i'd probably have bought it instead of the PicoPro. The entry level 42st60 was only ~600$ when it was selling new. Some worry of image retention if precautions weren't taken though. There was also the Pioneer elite models back in 2009, much pricier though Or the Jvc projectors that hit the market around the same time. Or even high end local dimming Lcd's. Lot's of options for rich people, I dragged in a Hitachi 51uwx20b crt rear projection for a awhile. It wasn't great for high contrast detail though, to many stray reflections.

Things i''l be looking for: Perfect mll with shadow detail. Any signs of Ghosting due to pixel transitions in high contrast areas. Color breakup (similar to phosphor trails/dlp rainbows) Input Lag Noise in dark scenes. (Noticed this a lot on the Oc Rift) Ability to maintain contrast in mixed scenes (a street lamp in a dark night for example Feel free to clue me into anything else.

A 720p direct laser display with many of the characteristics of CRT. Mines arrives in a ~week, i'll be sure to fire up Thief and/or Dark Mod and comment on the performance Here is a link to the thread on AVS for the non hdmi version: https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-digital-projectors-under-3-000-usd-msrp/1928497-celluon-picoair-any-experiences-yet.html&sa=U&ei=h6svVb-jAqfmsASi7IGQCg&ved=0CAUQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNHkK1-6rhRj52HxzO5mthxSM6jVyg

Let me clarify. By pixel noise I am referring to a shifting pixels effect visible in dark scenes. A similar effect can be seen on plasma displays when viewed up close. This is different from the corectable (for the most part) chromatic aberration created by the lenses. I did not encounter any image retention that I was aware of (I have seen image retention when viewing plasma displays) The ghosting is very similar to the type of transitional ghosting that can be seen on LCD panels (especially older and or vertical alignment panels). This may only be apparent when switching from the pixel off state, it was difficult to gauge this in my testing with thief because I was unable to get a satisfactory black level without interspersed pixels shutting off completely. This may point to an issue with the oled in the rift crushing very dark areas to black. This ghosting issue is well documented on the oculus forums as "black smear".

I wouldn't get too excited just yet. I tried the original thief games in the dk2 and while headtracking is an amazing experience, the oled display has some serious quirks for dark content, pixel noise and LCD transition style ghosting. That's not saying that can't be worked out in future headsets, more pixels should get rid of pixel noise. However the ghosting was an issue with these displays when the ps vita hit the market and apparently hasn't been fixed (aside from top of the line oled tv's perhaps). Hopefully they work all this out, but I won't be a day one buyer until I read some reviews. Another promising tech is the celluon picopro. Info on the laser light engine within can be found here: http://www.microvision.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/OPN_Article.pdf It sounds a lot like a crt crammed into an iPhone sized space, but im not a display engineer and didn't understand all of the details in the whitepaper.

Is this project still alive, or is it just being kept quiet?