Weasel

You make a lot of good points. I think the feature would only be worth adding if it was based completely on whether or not an object would go into the "Loot" category when frobbed (whatever variable specifies that), and was not dependent on materials being set up correctly for every object. I do also think it should be optional if implemented. If that implementation is not easy to do, it's probably not worth the effort.

Yeah, this would be a good thing to make optional. In current missions that use familiar loot, most players wouldn't need it. Conversely, if a mission designer wants to use a lot of non-standard loot, they could specifically suggest that players turn the option on. As a long-time Thief player, it would admittedly take time for me to get used to this feature, even though I'm advocating for it.

Ah, if the engine doesn't know whether the highlighted item is loot or not, that does complicate things. However, it doesn't have to be done through shaders and materials. It doesn't have to effect the rendering of the object. An alternative that may be easier to implement would be to have some small indicator attached to the light gem. Or just have a little icon show up in the corner of the screen. This would be enough for a proof-of-concept, at least, to see how it influences the feel of the gameplay.

The point of this is to allow for new and more varied bits of loot that can still be distinguished without being made out of gold. It helps make it feasible for any mapper to use new loot objects that are not already familiar to the player. This would also be very different functionally from the loot glint in Thief 3. I understand the team being against that kind of loot glint (I hated it too). Essentially, this is addressing the fact that the character knows somethings that the player does not. The character knows definitively what is loot and what is not, and communicates this to the player when the player frobs something by either putting it in the loot stash or making it hang in mid-air. This does work pretty well, but is not necessarily the most elegant way to communicate the information, especially when the player has to be very careful not to make noise when moving the object or setting it down again.

This problem is a realistic one to have, though. It's hard to judge the material composition or craftsmanship of a small object without getting close to it. Prop doors are a little different, as they are "fake" in a way that non-valuable objects on a table are not. Plus, a prop door has to either be obviously a prop or else it has the potential to mislead the player from a distance (without some other identifying mechanism, which I would not advocate). There are more nuanced ways to use non-obvious loot. It doesn't have to be in a place that is hard for the player to reach, or that the player wouldn't go otherwise. It can be used for realism and variety, such as the examples Fidcal started this thread with. It would still be up to the mission designer to use well. Putting a visible but non-obvious bit of valuable loot in a dangerous or hard-to-reach place (without good reason) would be bad design.

Ah, I haven't tried that mod. I agree that it should be something subtle. It doesn't even have to be a "glint" per se, just some kind of indicator that doesn't distract.

Thief 3 ruined the idea of loot glint by making things sparkle from the other side of a dark room. TDM should certainly not have that. Has the team considered a different type of loot glint, that only appears when the player has the object highlighted in the center of their screen, ready to be frobbed? It would represent a sort of "appraisal" ability. Even considering just the existing loot, for new a player (or a forgetful one) who doesn't know what is loot and what isn't, it's more realistic than making them pick every item up to see if it makes a "cha-ching" sound or just hovers in front of them.

I don't know why that happened, but it was not the recording set up I'll be using to do the real thing. As a matter of fact, I just got a quick lesson on the setup I will be using and did a few test recordings. Springheel, should I send you my test so you can tell me if the sound quality and file format are ok? I saved as a wav, 24 bit, mono, 44 kHz. For some reason, Media Player played it too fast when I tried that just now, but it was ok in Quicktime. I also have a FLAC version. I just need to know where to send it...

It seems that another solution would be: any line that uses a name (and it would still be used in a generic way) has lots of other versions without a name. In other words, if "Esmerelda, is that you?" is a sound for to_alert2, there would be 9 others for to_alert2 without names, to make it come up less often. Would that work? That leads me to my next question: is there an upper limit on the number of sounds that can share the same slot? I'm up to 17 idle sayings for my noble, and I can probably keep going. I'm hoping to record my noble for real tomorrow. If we can get her script finished, my gf might record her wench as well!

I see what you mean about the Jeffries ones, as they could interfere with stories. I think a little bit of name-dropping is nice, as long as it's generic enough. Maybe having more vocals sets will help with the repetition issue, too. Here are some samples of my gf's voice for your approval. She's still not sure if she wants to do a whole set, but I'm trying to convince her. Oh_who_are_you.mp3 Saw_something.mp3 Someone_sneaking_around.mp3 That_you_Esmerelda.mp3 Theres_someone_here.mp3 Wonder_what.mp3 Youre_not_Esmerelda.mp3 I_hear_you_over_there.mp3 I_just_hear.mp3

Here's the latest version of my script, if people want to check it out and give feedback. I do intend to do the ones that are currently left blank (some of them will just be grunts and similar utterances), and I'll also add more lines if I feel inspired! Additionally, my girlfriend has been working on lines and a voice for a wench character. I might upload some samples tonight, to see if you guys like where she's going with it. I think it's very good, myself. Maybe we'll eventually record some extra lines that could be used to make the two converse with each other! noble script updated.txt

I played Heart a few days ago (awesome mission) and encountered an interesting bug: when I returned to areas I hadn't been to in awhile, KOed bodies were all twisted around like balloon animals, as if some of the angles had been inverted or something. I don't recall if I ever saw it without having saved and loaded the game some time (since the KO), so it may have happened during saving or loading. I also ran into one stuck AI: a noble was stuck on the door to the left of the great staircase. I actually went up the stairs and dropped onto the top of the door so I could frob it and move it out of his way. It worked, and he was none the wiser! Oh, one more thing while I'm on the topic of Heart: When I was standing on the rampart with the archer at the beginning of the mission, standing up in the light for even a split-second would cause the bald guy guarding the back door of the manor down in the courtyard would come running up to get me, presumably at alert level 4. While it may not be entirely unrealistic (if you ignore the fog, which the AI do, right?), it wasn't much fun, game-play wise. I've read on here about a change already made to the top of the AIs' vision cone to make them less sensitive to things above them, and I've read about potential plans to add a delay to AI reaction-time. Maybe the combination of those things would make all the difference. It would be nice to at least be able to peek down at a fairly distant guard without alerting him so much.

Thanks for all the info! I just need clarification on this part. If the "3 per character" guidelines are out of date, how many of each specific type should be included? Should I match the number of examples given for Average Jack (which is the same in many cases)? Would it be ok if I sent you separate files for each bark, all zipped up? Or if I do send you one file with all the barks, will you be deciding how to use them, or will you follow my script? The reason I ask is, some of the lines I've written deviate a little bit from the guidelines, to add personality to the character. For example, level 1 alerts are supposed to be subtle enough that he doesn't know whether or not there's a person there, but he's arrogant and assertive and sometimes assumes the disturbance is caused by a servant or guard who's not good at following orders.

Ok, I'm not sure exactly how to pose these questions, but I'm a little unsure as to exactly what needs to be included in the script... I'll just rattle off a bunch of things. If I'm doing a noble, would I include the merchant and cook idle sayings? Which greetings would I include? I'm looking at the Average Jack example, and I don't see any greeting types that would apply to nobles. Are the "3 per character" things minimums, maximums, exact numbers, or suggestions? What about lines that say (x2) or (x3) at the end--in the idle phrases and in some other places? Should phrases related to attacking be included for all characters, even those that usually would not (such as servants and wenches)? I'm sure I'll think of more questions, but that's enough for now. I don't know how I didn't think of it sooner, but I remembered that my company has booths for recording voice-overs, and I can probably sneak into one of those some time soon to do some recording, instead of trying to get into the recording studio my friend works in.

In the last one, is it just the accent that's off? Maybe the wording is not aristocratic enough? I was trying to keep the same accent, but with a little more force behind it. Anyway, I did most of these in just one or two takes, but I'll hopefully be spending a little more time on them if I get into the studio (and I should mention that it likely won't be for a few more weeks, at least). You want one file with all the clips in it, eh? I assume you'll want a script, too?