Subjective Effect

No, I don't have it yet. I'm going to map with it so I don't need it yet as all assets aren't complete. Besides, I've no time atm.

Screens look very nice. Have to get D3, have to get D3. . .

Really? The Hammerite Imperium is considering switching to TDM? Wowzers! Is this good or bad news? I'm sure it would look even more awesome in TDM, and it would certainly mean that upon release there is a lot to play, but are they ready for this? There are certain elements within the Thief community that will pour hella pots of scorn on the HI team if they do this. Me? I say go for it. I just hate that fact that TDM is so far away.

I'd just like to point something out regarding T3Ed and crashing. It is temperamental, yes, but it doesn't crash for no reason, it is bugged. And you can get around those bugs easily. The 2 big things are making sure you work with BSPs in wireframe mode and building geometry straight after and add/subtract actions, and not using the undo button to correct a complex piece of messed up brushwork.

They look great!! I especially like the concept art in the background. Perhaps grime them up a bit more and put some other detail in the bottom or top left corner though, it looks just a little sparse there.

How do you tell which threads you've read already? And what do the different keyhole types signify?

I had this idea about the elemental crystals. Fire crystals should look slightly "flamey". The one you did was perfect oDDity. Water crystals should be smoother and look like a drop of water. Gas crystals should have a bubbley surface with bubbles inside them to represent the gas pockets. Moss arrows should have that iron filings on a magnet look. Spikey but organic. Similar to this: http://www.cumberlandadventures.com/cave/cede2.html Thoughts people?

No oDDity, I wasn't just saying that they would be useful in outside missions but that they would be useful there as well. If you are on any level that has a sewer or underground water sources or even just pools of water you can leave water crystals there. Same with any plantlife and moss crystals, or fires and fire crystals. It just means you have much more flexibility regarding in-mission finding of arrows. The reason to put them in now is that they can then be used for the campaign. And that is the only reason. Other people will put them in for FM creation afterwards anyway. Believe me, if it weren't for this flexibility I'd say mechanical 100%. I thought the explanation of why the mechanical versions exist by Springheel were perfect and should be slipped into some random guard speech or notes lying around in the campaign. Yes sparhawk, that is a TDS rope arrow. All the components are there in T3Ed for it, the animation, the object, everything. They seem to be having trouble getting it to work though.

One of the things that we haven't seen yet in a Thief mission, in either of the 3 official games, is a proper outdoors mission. I'm talking country sneaking, a forest, a camp, perhaps a hamlet, perhaps a solitary ruin on the top of a hill. But with the sneaking really all going on outside. I always thought a mission where you have to sneak into some nomadic warlord's camp would be nice. Or the edges of a the camp of some large army. You cannot do this in T3Ed. My FM was originally set outside. Obviously I wanted to simulate the outside since T3Ed cannot handle huge open spaces. But even then in order to make it look like the outside you have to use some relatively large open spaces that make T3 choke. Original screen: http://www.thiefpetition.com/images/thief/towerbase.jpg See that draw distance behind the tower? It's a choker. So it's been completely redesigned and the entire structure altered to fit the constraints of the editor. My point? TDM has the potential to provide this untapped area for FM settings. Or so I understand from the way the editor works. And in such a setting arrows of a mechanical nature cannot be just found. Hence we would need crytstals. It's not just for pagan missions. I think this is pretty important but then it could just be my ideas about FMs. PS. Talking of arrows, check out the animation on this. Not bad, not amazing. - http://home.comcast.net/~ascottk/files/mov/T3RopeArrow.wmv

People will DEFINITELy notice. Cripes! That's why I think it is important. If we have some really cool looking heads you just know we will get props for it. If they are direct copies, or not different enough, we'll get "Oh, lame. At least you could have made them different." You know it.

As much as I hate the idea of having to use the Thief crystal arrows I think we will have to just so you can find arrows "in the field". Would it be possible to set it up so that when you use a crystal arrow the number of broadheads drops by one to indicate the use of that broadhead's shaft and flight?

I agree with you on priciple 100% oDDity. But the fact that you can find crystals within a level is appealing. I don't quite know how you could have the same thing with the practical (what is with this "mechanical"? they aren't all mechanical - only 1 is really) ones. One thing that really annoyed me in Thief was when you found a crystal you automatically got an arrow of that type. Where did the arrow shaft and flight come from? I always thought that you should lose a broadhead since you'd take the head off and replace it with the crystal. Or have the option to use the crystal and only lose the broadhead when you made the decision to use it.

It only matters if you want to find fire crystals in fire and so on. I was nice but not essential. I'm against both arrow types being included for the reasons I've already stated.

Actually, oDDity does have a point. This isn't Thief, this is The Dark Mod, and the crystal arrows are very iconic to the Thief series. In fact the mechanics of them are too but since they actually make sense I think it's fair to use the functions. The models oDDity offered were all pretty cool and would work. Personally I don't like the fire or gas arrows but that's because they use too much metal and it could be done in a different and better way. I think the water arrow concept is great and could be modified for the gas. Fire arrows should be molotov cocktail style as I've said before. That would look gritty as hell and be much cooler than some magic thing. But realise this: - creation of new arrows that are not crytal arrows will make TDM different and original. It will remove it from being a copy of Thief that much more, just like everything else that has been altered does. Finally - anyone who really, really wants crystal arrows will just add them. But it will not be the responsibility of TDM and Eidos will have no ground to stand on.

Why can't some be crystal and others not?

Sounds great Springhell. The clockwork thing is old now.

Untrue. Totally depends on the type of weapon. Bombs can be blast weapons, shrapnel weapons or incendary weapons. I'm proposing a blast weapon since that is what the fire arrows are in Thief. Some fire but mostly blast damage. I said LIKE a petrol bomb. I'm talking about the mechanism - a "fuse" that is on fire so that when the arrow hits and spills it's explosive the explosive ignites. You could have a chemical reaction that does the same of course - when the arrow hits and the two chambers break the chemicals mix and violently react.

I think the one on the left should be the gas arrow. It's the water arrow, correct? You could store gas in that and it would burst on impact. The fire arrow looks nice but it's too complex. Why not make it out of some chemical that explodes on impact? Or similar to a petrol bomb - you light it, fire it and when it smashes the fire sets of the released explosive.

That would be great actually.

I'm just going to pick you up on this because it IS Nintendo. They have been responsible for every console controller innovation you care to think of. Think of it. It was their idea first, oh yes it was. There are plenty of objective tests. Some of them are critical of certain aspects of the controller even. And I wish everyone would remember that a. there is going to be a standard type controller that you can dock the gyro controller with and b. GameCube controllers will work with the Revolution.

You know, I love innovation. I think this looks like a good idea. But I've also no idea how precise or not it will be. And niether do you. So please, please, please can you not spout stuff like "I think it is waay too imprecise for FPS games" when you have no idea, and know that you have no idea, whether it will be suitable or not. However - if you see the whole video of the announcement you will know that FPS games are precisely PRECISELY what Saturo Iwata was saying the controller will be good for. And there is ALREADY a retro-fitted Metroid Prime 2 that has been playtested. It's discussed on the net somewhere (Google) it. Apparently... awesome. Actually, I realise that you haven't read about properly BlackThief. Go read the tests, then tell me it's just a lightgun.

Google it. Lookes awesome. Imagine Thief with it and using it to blackjack or draw the bowstring back.

I vote for the simple. Perhaps the thin rope magically gets fat when it's away form the "thinning" power of the spindle?

Looks just right. Can we have a close up on the head and spindle?

I mean a triangular drill bit spar. It doesn't have to be a very large slope but a sharper point would look like it would take to the wood better. Any explosive would be noisy though wouldn't it?