wesp5

Very funny thread , but speaking of the tutorial: The problem I have with it, is that it is very uninspiring and I can hardly remember it. I think the outside section was okay, but the main hall with branching off corridors was completely boring. It may be much better to create an actual mission in which all important features are needed and just interrupt that at the right time with some explanations! Maybe this would even be possible with an existing one... P.S.: Just for fun I played the training mission again and I found two issues: 1) It's never mentioned that food can be consumed to get health by pressing the use key when holding it. 2) I got stuck when I tried to mantle the first bed in the room with the food and had to restart the mission.

Yes, that sounds like a good suggestion. If there isn't already I will file a bugtracker for it...

Ah, and another thing i didn't know. It's certainly time for some ingame info page or loading tips !

I often run all the way back to the starting point to quickly end a mission and this works good on even the largest city maps right now. And I agree with you that the guards should be affected as well. BTW, the player does run faster than any guards wearing armor, yes?

I really like the idea and of course I'm not a least bit surprised the veterans here don't like it because it does not belong in TDM! So I will continue sprinting like hell with sword and blackjack and bow and dozends of arrows and tons of loot until I find a high place to mantle over where the guards can't follow ...

I read somewhere else that blackjacking AI can be made a lot easier, which changes gameplay much more than any extinguishable lights would do. Also while you experts have no problem lockpicking everything in one go, I myself and probably a lot of other players need at least two goes on normal setting to get the pattern which changes the strategic approach and difficulty a lot too!

Hm, so what effect do they have on gameplay? They make the game easier in a few missions where oil lamps are in a critical place and must not be extinguished. So how does trainer lockpicking, or even worse, AI difficulty settings, affect the gameplay? They make the game easier in all missions! The latter is allowed to be in the hand of the player, the former not. I still don't get why...

You want to start me again on that ? I was only amazed that some things don't seem to be important after all, although they are considered to be the heart of the mod. While other more minor ones get the whole crew up fighting to not change them one bit...

Wow, there really is an option like this, but an option for extinguishable oil lamps is just not thinkable? Weird...

I don't know. For a sneaker like TDM, firing whatever special projectiles with guns makes no sense because it would be loud and alert everyone! But I like the idea of a modern setting and immediately thought of Hawkeye from the Avengers and his automatic special arrow delivering quiver. Why not use something like this with a high tech composite bow? And then add special modern arrows like EMP...

Speaking of sounds, maybe you could find some alternatives for the wood chests because right now they sound exactly like wooden doors when opening.

I would see the main issue with forks besides splitting the community in that you have to recompile and redo all your changes once the core game has some issues fixed. Isn't there a lot of stuff possible without compiling the source just by editing e.g. the def files? Like the extinguishable oil lamps that were discussed recently. That way we could create a mod or a patch that would just work on top of the current game without being a real fork...

This would always be a last solution, but then again, mappers and developers could think their work was used the wrong way with their effort wasted.

I know about that and don't do it. Still the formatting often changes just when deleting large sections of a quote...

Ah, thanks for the explanation. Now how can I avoid that editing the quoted text suddenly removes the quotation setup?

I would be happy with the current mod, but developers and mappers fear that this solution could change gameplay to much in some old missions. So the solution above would be on the safe side and could make everyone happy ! Also apologies if any developers or mappers felt insulted, maybe I do indeed underestimate the gameplay consequences...

Good question! This board has a very strange quoting system. Is there a way to use the common html way?

No, I already have this mod installed on my setup . We are almost there for a global solution, that would make all sides happy: 1) new models for the current oil lamps that have a glass front stopping the player from a quick snuff out and 2) the current models for mappers to use if they want exstinguishable oil lamps in possible future missions.

Well, a direct hit with a water arrow would probably shatter the glass and if I understand it correctly direct hits don't work at the moment anyway !

The poll is confusing because other options were suggested after it was started and I added them later on. Still the people who have voted the new options surely thought they knew what they voted for and did not just vote no. Anyway, I'm really tired of this. I already yielded to the pressure here some posts ago and suggested to add new lamps and retrofit the old ones to do what you suggest. Nobody reacted to that but kept attacking me instead ! So stop it and tell me what you think about this: http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium/under-the-oil-lamp-light-richard-mitchell.jpg

Yeah, blah, blah, we don't need to change anything ever, our mod is so brilliant, better we close the whole improvement thread down.

Oh, just forget it! You don't want to change anything, fine, I get it. Forget about the 7+1 people who want to have this feature or the others that might want it in new maps. They are not developers or mappers, so they don't really count anyway! There is another thread going on here right now to the same extend. Someone posted what he is missing in TDM and he gets jumped all over too because TDM is great exactly like it is and anything new would break all the old missions and you are really bad at taking critism: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/17373-blackjacking-what-the-hell/page-3 If I would have the same view about Bloodlines, there never would have been a plus patch with restored content and the game would have died years ago!

Well, before I brought it up, people weren't even thinking about it so of course I count these votes on my side ! People wanting no changes surely voted no, because this is the status quo right now. Also as far as I understand it, there is still need to change the def files of the static oil lamps. At least this is how I had to implement it myself!

You do realize that there are 8 more votes for extinguishable oil lamps options- or mapper-dependent, which make it an 16:10 ratio, quite more than half the people, for an implementation of some kind? So either you didn't understand the last two poll options I added later on or you ignored them on purpose! Or is the poll "communicating poorly" too ?

This is why I suggested the other solution right above your post...