GameDevGoro

I have also noted the AI to display better acuity and is generally more persistent. For example, a few times I have been watching an alerted AI from the shadows, knowing that there's no real chance the AI would see me. But to my surprise it suddenly does, and I get my arse handed to me on a plate, or I get nailed between the eyes with a rock. I guess it's possible that maps with an ambient value above some threshold never produce shadows that are dark enough to completely conceal you? Is this another issue with physical darkness and virtual darkness?

Oh yeah, they are effectively stripping away any and all "trial and error" from games like these. What they think is easier on the players is in fact slowly deteriorating what I, and many others, love about stealth games, I love being able to make mistakes because, you know, it's OK. I can run and hide, wait for a while and try again. Even though that didn't work so great in Hitman: Blood Money. That was more tactical in, if you missed an opportunity to make a hit- Too bad, buddy, find another one! If you messed up too many times- Too bad, buddy, they'll be suspicious of your bald ass! I like the Hitman games, but this just seems like a step in the wrong direction to me. I don't like having a game tell me what to do, especially not by telling me where my opponents are going to go next. Could they have made it more obvious that it's just a game and avoid any immersion? Edit: Further more, part of what's fun in Thief and TDM (actually) is to be able to learn how the people in the world move, so you can time yourself against them! Why does anyone feel compelled in taking away something as perfect as this? I'm sure the Hitman people still have some form of patrol route, or something that maybe repeats after a while. But I really liked watching the people move from a dark corner and learn about when I could make a move. In saying this, I understand nothing's stopping me from doing that. But it sorta feels like the game is pressuring me in displaying information on screen that was at one point hidden knowledge.

Wow. Just what I was typing out. xD

Hehe. Guys, I noticed something rather peculiar just now, "playing" through the Builder warehouse in the training mission. I don't exactly know what happened, but I think one of the builders accidentally hit another builder and the two of them got into a ridiculous fight which, of course, ended in one of them getting killed. I'm just sitting there in the shadows chuckling at how these two just tore into eachother like wild animals! This is definiely something I've never seen before!

Yeah, but wouldn't that create pretty annoying situations where you'd pick the lock to a door, have it swing open only to find a guard looking straight at you because he was alarmed by the fiddling of the lock? I think that would be a pretty big WTH factor for people who don't exactly know why that happens?

My main character is on about 40 hours now, and I know what you're referring to. I'm saying I didn't get what was so funny. But since you told me just now I guess it's a "chuckle chuckle" kind of funny, but not nearly as funny as the rest of the world makes it out to be. The way we've all heard about it iterated through and through it sounds like it would be the best thing since sliced bread. Also, I'm sure there's a better way to find out about this but... Do bow & arrow guards work correctly now? Anybody want to tell me, or yell at me to look it up elsewhere?

I'm soooooo pumped to see this, you have no clue!!! There's too little Thief-esque art going around! ... Super cool stuff!

So, the head of an arrow punching through the kneecap and a person wailing in agony? (... I honestly don't know what that joke is all about.) But the arrow flyby is something that totally went over my head (no pun intended). I never noticed it before now... But I'm happy it's getting added!

@Shadowhide: I really shouldn't engage in this, knowing that arguing about opinions is one of the dumbest things one can do. But damn it, I'm feeling kinda dumb today so let's do it anyway! A lot of your "questions" are the type of questions one would ask when their not capable of playing a non-linear game. Why on earth would the thieves guild quests require you to sneak? It's not a game based on failure in that sense like thief would be, I'm not saying Garrett can't fight, but face it, if you aggro the entire castle you're going to get a new asshole pretty quick. So I can't understand why you would think that the game would somehow force you to sneak? I played through the thieves guild quest-line and I avoided a lot of trouble for my character because I was able to sneak. Sound familiar? It's because it's the same functionality as in Thief, sneak and you won't be detected. And really? You can't see it on medium settings? Really? When did it ever get to the point where you can't run a game on your computer and you blame the game for it? Makes absolutely no sense. And don't give me that whiny story about how you can run Crysis this and Crysis that on what settings, every game isn't optimized the same way. That's something that should be obvious to people who've been around games before. I've also played Gothic, Gothic II, Gothic III (I won't play Gothic 4 or whatever it's called, I have on good authority that it sucks), Deus Ex, Deus Ex 2 and Deus Ex:HR and I fail to see how they are any different in "roleplay", as you said it, than Skyrim. You're free to point it out, I'm just saying they work the exakt same way: Dialog, Q&A and you go do the quest to further the storyline. So all I can say is: Enjoy "The Bitcher".

Yeah, that's what I meant. I know it is, but it sounds just as bad. I mean, it's a pretty jarring hearing that in a movie that otherwise has great audio. It's like: Was the joke really worth it?

Oh my god. The Wilhelm scream is THE WORST GODDAMN SOUND EFFECT in the history of the world. I'm not kidding how pissed I get whenever I hear that same whiny scream in some movie and I immediately think less of it. I know in some movies it classifies as sort of a tribute to the dude in question, but I think it's, more often than not, just plain stupid and insulting to the viewer. It doesn't sound right, it just doesn't. In closing: IT DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT, JUST STOP USING IT! In fact, if there's one thing I would change in the world of movie-making, it's to abolish that sound. Just throw it into a pit of boiling acid and forget it ever existed. And yes, it's also shocking how we all seem to sit on one common source of sounds for games, movies and other auditory media. You'll also notice this if you ever somehow end up watching one of those incredibly dumb shows on TV that depict like- "close call" events where some animal mauls a person and they just get away in the nick of time, and they plaster these clips with, what I guess is, "Hollywood SFX CD 2" or something.

I'd say it's a damn good attempt and should be taken as such.

True. There's no real end-game, it just keeps going. There's a real chance that the quests will seem repetitive after a while, but we're talking about 50 or 60+ hours later. I've played it for like 40 hours and I haven't noticed the radiant story telling giving me the same quest again and again. Of course it will vary from experience to experience, but me and some people I know have been playing it for extensive periods of time and we haven't noticed that much repetition. It does happen, however, that a similar quest happens and it sort of feels weird, but not often. Seriously. I guess it depends on how much time you want to spend on this. I mean, if you're hell bent on finding every nook and cranny of this game, then yes, you will probably start noticing the borders of the world. Either way, enjoy it if you want to. I fully recommend it. Nah, it doesn't. The game is wide in what you can do, but not that wide...

@Vadrosaul: Hi there. I'd just like to address your "hectic pace" example. I'll just add that there is nothing even remotely hectic about Skyrim, you can pretty much dilly-dally around forever, it's a very slow game if that's how you wish to play it. And as you may know it does feature a storyline with the thieves guild that I, myself, found extremely much like playing the Thief games, except you can just run off into the opposite direction if you get bored for some reason. So, I think so. I think you could play this game and enjoy it as a Thief series fan. I did. Edit: Also I'll just add some stuff I have to say about Skyrim in general: Since I, as much as anyone on this forum, like the Thief games. I must say that I especially like Skyrim just because the thieving and the shady business is well accentuated. (In comparison to the other TES games) Ever since Morrowind I wanted to be able to play as a thief character and have that feeling, that special Thief-esque feeling which I, up until now, only saw in Thief games. But now Skyrim is able to fit that bill in my experience, so I am extra infatuated with this game. (And yes, Stephen Russell as a voice actor for some thieves made me as giddy as a schoolgirl.) So compared to the other games in this series this actually takes the price in many ways, even though I still think Morrowind is the best TES game experience I've had. In short: Love it, just like the other Elder Scrolls games.

So, "dumb people" = people who don't agree with you? Also: Skyrim is amazing. First game in forever that properly surprises me from time to time.

Hahaha, nice!

Yeah the game feels a bit stiff now and again... And as for missing secrets. I doubt it. Don't secrets in this game make that weird tinkling noise when you're near them? Edit: And there are times when I all but ran past that freaking ghoul because the player is so much faster and better at climbing than the scripted ghoul is...

Yes. It's one of my favorite games of all time. Played through it probably 4-5 times to date. Edit: And not surprising at all, I played it like a Thief at least half the times.

Very, very cool! (And I'm so 'watching' you, hehe. xD)

I still don't get why the hell they would make Thi4f third person to begin with. Like what's wrong with them? They turn games like Syndicate and Fallout into first person games and they turn first person games into third person games? This can't possibly be what people mean when they say "development"... It's fucking backwards is what it is...

Games are definitely getting flat these days, I'm afraid. They are also getting shorter and shorter since high-end cinematic graphics takes far more resources and time to produce than in the past.... Uh.. For slightly less advanced graphics so to say...

Well, yeah. Could be either really, but I perceived it to be a girl at the time. Could also be their "open door" so it could be interpreted as either in the next game. But that it would indicate some other person as the main character I have no reason to deny, just because it "ends" the way it all "started". So I think it's valid to expect that Garrett is not the main character in Thi4f (which everyone is allowed to praise or moan about as they see fit), but that he probably has something to do with the story still. Wild speculations are fun, but just that- speculations.

Yeah, but if the character was to be female in the release, it would make sense as a continuation to where TDS left off. Something that might come as a slightly larger shock to the "die hard" Thief fans that never bothered playing through TDS... I even once had the fear of Thief 4 being in modern day, so those storyboard drawings are at least a little assuring in my eyes as to what the setting will be like. O_O Now there's the gameplay issue, and that will most likely be a thorny path to anyone keen on how Thief 1, 2 and (kinda) 3 played...

@7upMan: Thanks for posting those images here, man. I saw them over at TTLG or something and there's an interesting point on that storyboard thing. The first few people mentioned an "emo garrett" (or some other derivative of the same thing), and it got me thinking. Could the main character of Thi4f actually be a female? My brother then reminded me of how Thief: Deadly Shadows ended. Anyone remember? What do you guys think?

I'm sorry for just chiming in without reason but I find this particularly interesting, what is that? Where does it come from?