Petike the Taffer
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Posts posted by Petike the Taffer
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I've listened to your tracks and I like quite many of them, but you would probably have to practice more ambient stuff at first. Your tracks are usually closer to more orchestral or instrument-heavy music. You seem to know your stuff, though, so feel free to offer us help if you start work on something that could fit TDM.
- More themes for the builders.
- Themes for the pagans.
- As we have Moors now, it would be nice to have ambient music for them, although Springheel or so would have to point out their background so you get an idea what they are about (didn't follow the related discussions too closely).
- Something for our inventors. Steampunk like, but not too futuristic.
- Anything else.
Seconded.
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While the criticism of flash mines is IMHO fairly sound, I think gas bombs and gas mines should be incorporated in addition to gas arrows and flash bombs.
Particularly a gas bomb. I think it could be useful for reflexive self-defence or for non-lethal KOs where a long-distance weapon like a gas arrow would be a bit of an overkill. Mines, whether they go kaboom, create a flash or release gas, have, to me, always seemed like little more than an excuse to set up a trap.
Nevertheless, I find non-lethal mines appealing. Though as Springheel said, the flash mine is relatively less realistic than a flashbomb. Still, setting either a gas mine or a flash mine could be an interesting trap, or perhaps could work as a guard KO-ing puzzle. But as with all explosives in TDM, they should be rare and come in very low numbers.
The only major use I ever found for explosive mines in either Thief or TDM was in undead missions, where they were a weapon of last resort if I ran out of holy water, water arrows or fire arrows. As TDM undead are invulnerable to flashes and gas and take a while to kill in melee, using a mine on them can be an occassional life saver.
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Modifying animated meshes is the most difficult job there is, so I don't know how much response you're likely to get. You might get somewhere def-attaching a furry sleeve model to an existing AI though.
I understand that, but what I meant was that we wouldn't need an entirely new set of animations for the NPC. The "winter edition" with the coat would obviously be a bit different on the outside (in the torso area), but we wouldn't require rigging up the whole mesh for a modified animation set of the usual maid AI model.
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Well, I guess this thread is my best bet.
A reworked, "winter edition" of the maids' and other female servants' model. One in which the AI is wearing a simple, plain-looking fur coat, roughly like this one (the front can include either historically plausible buttons or lacing, depending on what might look better).
As the heads of the AIs seem modular from the DR screenshots I've seen so far (haven't worked with it yet, so I'm basing it off of those), I think the only real thing in need of editing would be the existing meshes and textures for those characters.
I have a particular interest in this AI model because the FM I plan to develop takes place at winter time and includes a major lower-class female character who's going to be spending a lot of time outside. I don't find it plausible that she would be strolling around in that sort of cold with her usual "barmaid cleavage" clothes.
Looking at some of the furniture and decorations included in the latest TDM update, I'm actually not that worried about props in general. But if I come across something during the building and writing of the mission, I'll remember to ask here.
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Owls eh? Reverse pick-pocket a dead rat onto a guards belt. Problem solved.
LMAO !
Interesting gameplay concept... 
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My, my, this thread has taken off.
I'm glad it's successful.
On 2/8/2015 at 10:59 AM, Sotha said:Using the elements contained here could be used to craft plotlines of varying complexity.
A really good read for anyone who wants to make stories.
The problem is, once you have read it, you start mechanically identifying the story elements in the entertainment you consume.
http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/blueroom/plots.htmThis is a great find, Sotha.
I've already bookmarked it.
On 2/8/2015 at 4:51 PM, Moonbo said:snippetThis can be tricky to pull off well at times, if the author just decides to go for the "megalomaniac" approach to designing a mission. Back in the day, I've played several Thief FMs that just went on and on and on and kept piling up story element upon story element to the point of complete tedium or as if deliberately trying to confuse or dazzle the player. I prefer a mission's story - even a very carefully paced, slowly developing one - to not be too overwhelming in one go. Sometimes, it's better to keep things relatively simple (read: non-convoluted) and save part of it for later missions (especially if the whole narrative warrants a campaign), rather than trying to cram in every possible plot twist and extention to a story of a single mission.
On 2/9/2015 at 9:36 AM, demagogue said:That's what I wrote about too. I distinguished storytelling and plot.
- Storytelling or story elements include readables, VOs, interior design, visual storytelling things, etc, and are just the pieces you can make a story or just give flavor, or anything in between. They don't have to add up to anything deeper, but they can. And I think it's totally valid to make an impressionistic FM that doesn't have a real story, but just soaks with atmosphere or a cool gameplay flow.
- Plot is the actual engine that drives action when you're going through an FM, that pushes a flow through a beginning, middle, climax, to a denoument, and it uses storytelling elements in a specific order and way to do it.
I like Moonbo's take too. It reminds me of the old Egyptian temples. The outskirts are big and public information, but as you get deeper, you unlock progressive stages where things get smaller and more intimate (i.e., more exclusive access), until you reach the holy of holies, which is the climax.
The other common model I see is the hub and spokes model. After winning over a safe hub, you go down a number of spokes off of it to complete sub-goals in any order. Then the story emerges when all the pieces add up, so different players get the story in different orders but it's the same story in the end. Probably after you get all the pieces, then you can enter the climactic scene. So it's not entirely inconsistent with the Egyptian temple model either.
I enjoy your definitions, particularly the metaphores used for those two common types of approach to a mission's narrative.
And that sentence I bolded in the quote ? I completely agree. One of the strengths of Thief and TDM is using the very environment and locale as not just a setting for a story, but as the story, however mundane it might seem at face value.
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I'm just your meek, unremarkable freelance translator from rural Slovakia. I also did some volunteer work on castle ruin research and conservation, if anyone finds that interesting. Otherwise nothing particularly peculiar about me.
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I am nearly finished with this mission on the highest difficulty. Compared to your newer mission, Briarwood Cathedral, which I found frustrating by the end and not finished yet, I really, really, really enjoyed this mission.
It has some good variety, a good portrayal of a small chunk of the city, lots of fine little details. And it was just... fun.I agree with some of the mansion criticisms, but I found the place interesting and the interiors felt appropriate to me. I haven't played much TDM FMs where you can switch the lights on/off, so seeing this as an available option was a pleasant treat. I often dislike hunting for secrets, but finding the secret switch was fun and fairly straightforward this time around.
And unlike others, I didn't mind the glass lampshades projecting patterns onto the ceiling - I actually found it rather cool.The barmaid in the second inn gave me a surprisingly tough challenge, as I had to figure out a way to lure her from her spot and avoid the strong sources of light in that area. It didn't help she was armed. Finding the sewers was a nice surprise, I didn't even realise there are any at first, and that those things are frobbable sewer hatches. Nice.
I really liked what you did with the gas arrows in this mission.
Let's just say I put them to good use on certain guards. In short, this is one mission I'll certainly replay in the future.
However, I do have one question:
The "sock drawer note" mentions that the two guards use that key on top of said dresser for some secret chest they have. I tried that key on multiple chests, but it didn't fit any. Have I looked around well enough or am I missing something ?
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Yeah, old topic, but I've just remembered the whole base soundtrack is also available for download on ModDB:
http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-dark-mod/addons/official-soundtrack-vol-1
Well, at least Volume 1. I think the main menu's "Nocturne" (including the newer, music box arrangement) and the ambient track for the Briefing are not on it and people will have to find and unpack them manually from the game files (like I did it), but other than that, most of the commonest music tracks are available in that one zip.
Oh, and I'm editing this thread to [sOLVED], just for future reference.
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On 2/7/2015 at 2:50 PM, demagogue said:
For the record the link to that wiki page is http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Story_and_Plot_Design
It's already linked in the FAQ, I didn't just put it in italics, you know.
And thanks for all the contributions. Speaking for myself, though I have heard a lot about the quality of Rowena's missions, I haven't played any up until now, whether for TMA or TDM. Did she create any for the latter ?
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Quick FAQ:
What is this thread for ?
It is for discussing the narrative elements of a fan mission you're working on, and how they tie into the gameplay and technical aspects of the mission. If you're stuck with developing the plot for your FM, or are unsure of how to continue, or have the feeling your writing is not up to snuff, you can always seek advice in this thread.
Why did you start this in the Editor's Guild ?
Truth be told, I was seriously considering starting this thread in the I Want to Help subforum, but then I noticed (and realised) that most of the FM development threads are in the Editor's Guild anyway. So, I decided to rather start this discussion over here, in order to avoid making it "orphaned".
But I have a really minor storytelling question... Is it still okay to ask about it here ?
Of course it is ! This is practically the only "official" thread on narrative design we have now, so feel free to ask about anything that's primarily related to the storytelling or characters of your FM, and so on...
Do we already have any useful resources on narrative and storytelling design ?
Oh, certainly. The Story and Plot Design article on our wiki, contributed by demagogue. You should definitely give it a read.
Any other threads or articles you might recommend ?
Sotha's Mission Design Tips article is also just as helpful as demagogue's (and quite entertaining in places).
There's also the Inspiration Thread, providing mostly visual inspiration for FM building, and the Historical resources article, providing links and bibliography for topics related to period living and social history that could influence an FM's design and events.
If you find any more in that vein, feel free to recommend them here, and I'll add them to an impromptu list.
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Ladies and gentlemen, the thread is your's.
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(Last updated: 18 April 2018)
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I'd love to contribute to a thread on fm storytelling if it was started :-).
OK then, your wish is my command.
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A bit confused right now. If I want to uninstall the previous version and install this one, where do I find the User settings folder that I need to delete ? I'm on Windows 7 and only know where to get rid of it on Windows XP.
A smaller question: Does DR still need the fs folder to be set exactly to "darkmod" ? I've set it to a different name and though DR ran, it couldn't find or open any maps.
EDIT: To be more specific, where exactly does DR create new folders in Windows 7 ? I want to be sure whether I need to delete some remnants manually.
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I don't know of one. I think it'd be fine if you started your own thead.
BTW, I wrote a wiki page on plot design. It's long and more like a treatise than a tutorial, but it might help your thinking.
http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Story_and_Plot_Design
Oh, this is wonderful !
Thank you so much for all the work put into this. I'll be sure to use it as a general guideline in case I'm stuck or have a feeling that the plotting for my FM isn't developing well.
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BTW, as I'm still a bit of a newbie on this forum, I'd like to ask : Do we have a thread (or threads) where we can discuss writing and plotting for FMs ? While it's obvious everyone prefers to keep the story of their FM a surprise to others, I would personally like to discuss some decisions with others, just so I could avoid elements of hack writing in my FM and so on...
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Some of my own photos of medieval and early modern housing.
The first four images are from Levoča, the fifth is from Košice, the last one is from Nitra. The fifth one is technically a reconstruction of an existing early modern building, and was based on some Turkish or general Ottoman urban architecture from the 17th century or thereabouts. (It's always reminded me of some of the mansions from Thief II, TBH.
)These are some of the photos I've already posted a few years ago over at TTLG.
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If I may ask, is the Training Mission and The Tears of Saint Lucia fair game for translators, seeing as it's part of the base install of TDM ?
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Not sure if this could be helpful, but I guess it would be OK as a simple practice tool:
I'd personally use the more usual methods instead.
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Too bad Thievery isn't standalone like TDM. I haven't played any multiplayer Thief mods yet (not even the TMA one), but I would love to, provided there's enough people for a worthwhile little match.
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Here is a commercial using the very same lockpicking sound as Thief:
So what's the story? Was it actually recorded by Looking Glass or did they just use a canned sound from some sound resource CD like a lot of games back then?
It's funny hearing them in an actual commercial.
My personal theory is that LGS simply used quite a few assets from then-contemporary sound libraries available to sound producers, including their's.
Here's the Dark Mod version...
ROFL
Awesome edit.
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Speaking of aesthetically inspirational movies, I also like a French classic called Le Retour de Martin Guerre (The Return of Martin Guerre). Really captures the look, lifestyle, and ways of thinking of a medieval village.
I like the colourfulness of a lot of the clothing. It always annoys me when many contemporary films equate medieval clothing with literally everyone wearing apparel made from drab, sack-like cloth. I blame the "gritty realism" crowd. Misplaced realism, more like...
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Yeah, Kyyrma did that exact thing here. I imagine you'll want to ask him any questions you have, but reverse-engineering that map should show you how to do it.
Thank you, AirshipBallet, that's a great find. I'll look into it.
If anyone has any other tips regarding this topic that might not be already covered on the forums, feel free to post here. I'm all ears.
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And some old-timey industrial inspirations from my homeland...
The old hydroelectric powerplant near Kežmarok, under the Tatras. Founded in 1910, it's still in full operation today, even with some of the original Austro-Hungarian era machinery:
Some of my own photos of the old red brick factory halls of the Solivary salt processing plant in Prešov:
More to come. I've posted plenty of these over at ttlg.com, usually my own photos. I'll cover some medieval and early modern housing next time.
*excited voice* The bugs, man, the bugs... 
What content do you want?
in Art Assets
Posted · Edited by Petike the Taffer
I like your suggestion of using a different AI and reskinning it as a time-saving measure, guys, but if the clothing that the female mage is wearing is a bit too robe-like, I think it might not seem as realistic. Obviously, I could adapt the visual side of the story to this temporary solution a bit, but I just need to be sure that the mage lady is not dressed in something that looks too much like... well, a night gown. It would be unintentionally amusing, even if I reskinned the clothing. So I'm hoping that she's wearing something roughly in the vein of a warm cloak that would make sense during the winter time.
As I currently have DR uninstalled and I only plan to put it back on once I run the TDM updater (which is not yet), could I ask you for a simple screenshot of the female mage AI ? That would be really, really helpful. Thanks in advance !
To explain my need for such an NPC a bit further: The storyline of my FM will feature the protagonist cooperating closely with a female ally, and though she won't be by his side for the entirety of the FM (only from around the middle of it), both characters will have to cross quite a big chunk of the city streets in the FM, and reach a certain gatehouse. They'll walk outside the gate and into the wilderness and the mission will end there, as they're leaving the city (preliminarily, I am thinking of utilising Newport as the setting for the FM).