demagogue

Lol. Well for the record, I was just trying to reconstruct OHB's position based on what (I thought) he said. It didn't sound like textbook Marxism to me. I didn't represent my own thinking so much, though, esp since I was kind of caricaturizing the arguments. I also studied Marxism a bit, just to see if I could understand it, and have always been a little bi-curious with the left and right. I'll see if I can put together a good response to your post that better reflects my own thinking, Max.

I think you are totally misreading him, Nyar. Communism may be a lot of things, but I don't think "optimal" has ever been one of them. It looks like he's talking about the efficiency of production, that we can get more output (and better, contributing to more happiness) for less or equal work. That to my mind is an argument clearly in the camp of those arguing for a free market and free trade. Competition drives industry to cut costs/labor. When he says "certain manipulations coerce the others and create a economically-stratified society" that leads to inefficiency, this sounds like something like aparthied South Africa, which was incredibly inefficient for production, and it was industry that was breaking the rules so it could train black labor to take on more advanced positions, rather than spending more money for whites that couldn't do much better. He's also saying that interest politics (public choice theory) is detrimental to economic efficiency ("Such economic structures are established and ardently protect their interests"), and it is. And the root of the problem for him is "the static nature of it.", i.e., a command economy (whether racist or socialist or otherwise interest-based) that can't evolve outside artificial barriers that needs to be liberalized. When he says "First, I'm not saying happiness is proportional to the amount of goods and services one receives." First, it seems here he's thinking about an old argument that a downside to capitalist culture is the over-consumption and dumbing-down of culture, a fetish of commodities (a lust for more when more isn't necessarily better), and let's go ahead and throw in triumph of public stupidity (public choice theory & "no one ever lost money underestimating the stupidity of the public"), and reinforcing asymmetrical power arrangements, things that are actually detrimental to human happiness and flourishing on the whole. While this is one Marxist theme, it's hardly unique to Marxism. The religious right, who may be champions of the free market for other people, for themselves detest much of the vulgarization and "unholiness" of capitalist society and take pains to sheild themselves from it, and they inevitably have a softspot about injustices because of power asymmetries (if you pay attention to the big picture). Liberatarian types or a Nietzschean that thinks people should value higher expressions of culture outside mass-culture, similarly often look down on the lamentable mass culture of stupidity that capitalism fosters, and many use the freedom of free time that more efficient production provides for them to spend their time on more uplifting things like making this mod, going to opera, helping starving kids, or writing little treatises like this. I think OHB has also put his finger on the great reply of a free market to the fetish of commodities problem, and he set up the sentence as if to make just this argument. "Then again, one is more happy knowing there's always enough food rather than knowing that 20% of the population will starve to death because of some disturbance. Likewise, the goods and services or in other words work-output allows one to enjoy such happiness-inducing activities as Thief, or opera." A free market is the only way to get vital distribution information throughout the system quickly and efficiently; so it morally outweighs the alternative: People need food; a free market distributes that information much more quickly and cheaply to a self-interested capitalist that wants to give it to them (and another one giving them labor-opportunties so they can pay for it) than any bureacrat (no offense) trying to please his supervisor. And every so often, the free market lets great cultural jewels like Thief and opera pass under the radar. And OHB just worded his post as if to say that he sees these things as morally off-setting the problems with human flourishing that a free market otherwise encourages. At least, this is how I understood what he was saying. So I think all-in-all OHB, although he didn't articulate it so precisely, has intuitions that fit very well with conventional liberal democratic thinking. And when he says "...like most of you, I would like to see a change to a more optimal system for everyone", like "most of us" (in my experience), his intuition about reform is also on pretty conventional liberal democratic lines.

If you are interested in navigating outside the frame, e.g., so it doesn't go to the main screen when you refresh, then just right click on any link you want to visit and choose "open link in a new window" and it will open the page by itself, outside the frame. You'll notice that the actual site name is modetwo and is a bit longer and unweildy. "Darkmod" is a shorter, more PR friendly name that nests the modetwo site inside of it. @Macsen, lol, you should visit sometime. It's one of the few glimpses we outsiders get of the sacred inner workings.

Well, apparently it's supposed to fit into the story. I suppose these are all our local factions? This reminds me of how disappointed I was to learn that the true meaning behind the J-Pop band's name SMAP is really "Sports and Music Assemble People". Dumbest acronym EVER.

What's unintentionally hilarious about that is how contrasting the two faces of old and new Russia are. On the one hand, Soviet-era, all women were dressed as if sex didn't exist, even when they're "out to town" (more like "out to the breadlines"). And today's Russia, Jebus!, even an innocuous historical photo collection has to be plastered with nudes sticking everything they can in our faces. Seeing them side to side like that makes you just want to sigh ... our little Russia is growing up so fast.

lol, so much for the light from heaven and a booming voice telling them to "turn around".

@Spring, I completely understand the reasoning behind the decision; it was said a few times in this thread, and everybody knows how annoying it is to lose an inventory item when trying to open a door and missing the frob. I'm not questioning that. My question was just if I understood the mechanic correctly that the decision means that the use-button is going to be taken off the mouse-button and put on the keyboard. I guess it would have to be (I couldn't imagine the other way around where frob is put on the keyboard), but I just didn't see it explicitly stated. For my mouse (which doesn't have a wheel), I already need to go to the keyboard to scroll through inventory items with Tab (or is the mouse wheel just to weapon-cycle? I don't even know), so it's already a bit of a pain when I'm in a rush. Maybe the thinking is that it is not any *more* annoying to put the use key on the keyboard than a cycle-key (or maybe it's worse because now you have to fumble for two keys, cycle and use, instead of just one?). On the other hand, with the classical system it often happens that the inventory item disappears automatically right before I want to use it (to facillitate dual frob use, presumably). Does the new system keep an inventory item always usable once it's set-up, or does it also disappear after a while?

Just a clarification question ... if you have separated a use-object and frob button, does that mean that the use button has been taken off the mouse and put on the keyboard -- so the mouse now has weapon-use & frob, but if you wanted to use a health potion or mine on-the-fly you'd have to find the key on the keyboard? My intuition was that frob and use were integrated to have a good amount of interaction kept on the mouse, particularly the stuff you might be doing on-the-fly, like running through doors you need to open, using a weapon, using a health potion as you're getting pelted, or blowing the horn of Alarus just as the burricks start charging. (I'm sure you have all thought about all the issues and have made a good decision, and have thought about the trade-offs; I'm just wondering about the mechanics and if I understand what's going on.)

Hey, happy birthday, Schatten. I can only say that turning 30 feels pretty cool, actually ... even though it was only a few months ago for me. You really can't get away with considering yourself a kid anymore!

There's a known history of music publishers bribing radio stations for play-time of songs; every once and a while you hear about it. I don't think game producers are necessarily above it any more than the music industry, esp as the whole game industry seems perpetually on thin ice. I would think that EA is a little too established and risk-adverse to be that stupid, though. But it could be like the Nixon syndrome ... so established you get paranoid.

Yes, another example of misunderstood iconography. Dragons still have a good connotation in the East; shame they lost that in the West. I'd think there are flags that are worse, though. In fact, I think a lot (if not most) flags have a little tainted pedigree somewhere or another. Turkey's flag is apparently (a metaphor for) the crecent moon that Ataturk saw reflected in the pool of British blood on the eve of its independence struggle from being a UK mandate. The German flag, I've heard, is the transformation from the black darkness of foreign rule to the gold glory of independence through the red blood of its struggle for independence ... or something. My personal favorite is Mozambique, which literally has an AK-47 emblazoned right in the middle, lol. Not much ambiguity there.

I was thinking it's already in post-production. I stumbled into a script for Indiana Jones IV once and had to stop myself from reading it because I want to see it fresh.

That would be Calendra's Legacy, only probably the most renoun FM set there is.

Wow ... I didn't notice it at all!

I vote we lock ZB in a room with some Bob Marley or Lesbian Seagull piped in through speakers, a plateful (or should I say a singing-bowl full) of magic brownies, the TV on Animal Planet, plenty of beads, birkenstocks, bree and burlap, and some free-love hippy girls. That ought to calm that cat down.

I like fiction and nonfiction, and would even consider alternating. But it seems that non-fiction is the head-runner here so far. Other book clubs I've seen run by members giving recommendations and then voting. We maybe don't need to be so formal, but it wouldn't hurt to have a few ground rules. I agree that it's a good idea to stick to good discussion-provoking books that aren't too technical but allow for lots to talk about ... philosophy, politics/policy, history, economics, sociology of science. Another idea is books that are inherently multidisciplinary, because they tend to explain the basics for each field and try to find connections. I had a good first list*, actually, but they weren't free. And maybe Maximius is on to something starting with free, online books, to get some momentum going with this. I'll think more about it. But for now I can list some archives that I like, although these tend towards articles, not books. Global Policy Forum (topics on globalization): http://www.globalpolicy.org/ David Chalmer's epic collection of online papers on all-things "consciousness": http://consc.net/online.html Two economics archives I like are econpapers.repec.org, and http://www.econlib.org/library/archive.html (that latter tending to the political right. For good karma I'll throw in http://www.marxists.org/reference/index.htm, lol; while nothing is easier to kick around than a Marxist, at least their archive is pretty well stocked with stuff that's hard to find elsewhere). Stanford's encyclopedia of philosophy: http://plato.stanford.edu/ (I also like semanticsarchive.net and arxiv.org, but those are going to be probably too techy). The advantage of articles, though, is that the commitment is less for each one, and you can line up like 5 articles in a row on a topic, to get a more diverse spread of perspectives, and see how a debate is shaping up. (it's sometimes fun when a class posts its readings online to go through them for the same reason). Oh, recommendations that are free online but not too technical. These are tougher to find than I thought... - Ariel Rubinstein, Economics and Language unites probably my two favorite subjects in one book on the relationship between the two (http://arielrubinstein.tau.ac.il/el.html) - It might be fun to line up a few articles (4 or 5) on the free will debate: http://consc.net/online2.html#freewill , one essay every week or two (or any one of the subtopics from that list, for that matter, if we want something more focused; the *Chinese Room* argument, the Turing Test, whether consciousness exists and what is it, etc. I'll think about it some more. The Nanny State book looks interesting just because the administrative state dominates in so many areas of life these days; it's a topic that seems too over-neglected (with half baked arguments) or misunderstood given how important it is (well, that and I myself concentrated in administrative law at law school). --------------------------------- * My first list of non-free books, for the record : Dennett, Freedom Evolves (2006, arguing that what we call "free will" is a product of natural selection) Dan Dennett, Consciousness Explained (1992?) (We could talk about stuff like consciousness or free will, usually fun topics; he's a provacative writer; it's science based; not too technical; but still lots to talk about.) The latter reminds me of one fun idea I had before (although its a longer commitment), which is to look at two books that argue opposing theses, and then on top of the discussion about the books themselves, there's a discussion about the underlying debate, who makes the better case, etc. E.g., Dennett's Consciousness Explained (which argues that experience is derived from functional properties of the brain; no new physics needed) versus Chalmer's Conscious Mind (which argues that experience is an irreducibly basic element of the universe; new physics needed) Another pair is Pinker's The Blank Slate (which argues that much of what we call "human nature" is set by natural selection, debunking the old Locke "blank slate" idea and the political implications that come with it) versus The Adaptive Mind (I'll look up the author's name), which argues that human nature is more like the immune system, set only to adapt to its environment but not really hard-coded. Two others I was just thinking on my own were Don Ross's Economic Theory and Cognitive Science and Elementary Particles (forgot the author), but maybe too technical here.

You forgot your usual, favorite disclaimer, NH: "You can always add things you want after the basic toolset comes out." I always thought the sword in Thief was so apparently a remnant of its Dark Camelot origins. It seems odd for a thief to be dragging along something that large, unweildy, and clang-producing if at the same time he's wiggling through windows and trying to stay in the corners and shadows. But gameplay wise I thought the sword was much better -- it really sends the message that this guy wants to stay out of fights if he can help it, and even then is on the defensive; it really captures Thief as the anti-FPS -- so I like it coming back in TDM. I personally wouldn't try to further rationalize it by thinking it's more natural or intuitive for a medieval thief, per se (not that that's what you were doing, I'm just saying...). I'm content just thinking it makes for better balanced or more appropriate gameplay for this kind of game. Although since I never noticed any immersion-break, it was never a real issue for me, anyway.

Isn't Bukary from Poland? His Old Comrades, Old Debts was classic and had some guard zig-zagging, at least the opening puzzle, but it seems the one you (Maximus) are thinking about is full-FM sized, not this one. Anyway, a lot of the FMs I like seem underrated ... Ab Dr. Dragon, Lord Alan's Fortress, Trickster's Gem Mine series, Saturo Returns Home, Art of Thievery, Emilie Victor. I like an immersive story (which for me means actually not too story-heavy or it starts flagging under its own weight), but even with that good gameplay is still essential.

That's easy: Franklin Gothic.

I'm game. Just right now it may take me a little bit to get settled into a new job, though. After that it'll be better.

Reading some of these posts on the City on the edge of a dying empire brings to mind something I tended to think about the City sometimes, which that it reminded me so much of Constantinople as the Byzantine/Eastern Empire slowly eroded away to the Turks (I minored in Middle Eastern Studies in college, BTW) ... very cosmopolitan, a center of trade, politics, culture, the Eastern Church. It was really the city itself in which everything thrived; esp towards the end, the last remant of the entire Byzantine/Eastern Roman Empire, which once stretched from ... well, it was huge, left to one city. And while there may have been stuff like Church councils going on in Anatalia (Nicene, etc), outside the city, the engine running the culture was always Constantinople. Another fun connection is that, in fact, Istanbul the word itself is literally a Turkish vulgarization of the Greek Ista Polis, "(to) the City"; Turks just called it by "the City". If I were to add anything to this discussion, it's just that I find it fun to think about alternative histories in terms of playing with ideas brought up in real history. And I find Istanbul good fodder in particular. I'll think more about it.

It had to happen ... the day they started coming to the TDM forum to ask for Thief hints.

Haha, this from the person with almost thirteen-thousand posts at you-know-where. Please! Sorry, not my fight. But you have to admit the irony is beyond dripping in this case.

Well at least they've moved on from blatant antisemitism. Give them a little credit. Edit: In all seriousness, though, I can't have that much sympathy with Ford cars after I was driving my Dad's Taurus and in the middle of driving on a highway it started emitting noxious yellow fumes out of the air conditioning, blinding me to the road, as the engine started loudly knocking and sputtering. Scary as hell. I had to stick my head out the window, slow down and pull over with my eyes still stinging! And then I was late for work and had to make them believe my story, lol.

Why don't you post new screenshots so we can see just how it makes things look better. I'm curious now.