DeTeEff
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Posts posted by DeTeEff
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Maybe I should have beta tested the release post
Better now?
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Oohhhh, the day has come! This old lurker releases another creation of his deranged mind...! What has he in store? Does it involve sunlight and pollen and hayfever? Will it involve strange towers and priests with bad breath?
Naah, just some mediocre airship type of mission,
aimed at the Anniversary mapping contest!
I have a lengthy/humourly rant/lore for some of the building process for anyone interrested, in spoiler tags.
SpoilerYou just can't keep it simple, can you? I kinda longed for building another mission and nbohr1more announced another contest. Do I have time for this? Do I want this? I want to paint more miniatures! I haven’t got time to tinker around in DarkRadiant. I have a house and a kid to tend to. I cannot keep stuff simple! I also haven't kept up with all the cool features that have been added to the mod. So what? I can enter with a small mission for the luls. Some Dire Straits on the sound system and just map away.
Yeah, small you say? Okay, this mission isn't one of the biggest in the house but man did I cram a lot of stuff in. My plan was to create an airship and three different playstyles. I’ve done it before, I can do it again, better and bigger this time! Design wise I started by physically drawing my layout with pen and paper. I wanted corridors and rooms for the guests, and a big hall with fancy lighting and maybe a small stage. Yes, and a balcony where the ladies could sit with small binoculars and check out the gentlemen beneath. I decided to go for the modular approach and build my modules in DR. I do not have the time/energy/know how to learn Blender etc. Then I started mapping out the general layout with easy to see brushwork (some white marble tiling) and then I covered that with my modules, adding more variants of the modules as needed. It feels good to use modules as the general design gets done quickly and you swiftly get the feel for the locations. Then came some lighting and I bumped into the fist hurdle; light seeping right through the walls! I consulted the forums and learned that this was a tradeoff for the new, enhanced lighting calculations. Cool, I’ll just have to add some extra brushwork with shadowcasting abilities inside the walls. Cannot even trust caulk anymore, grumble, grumble…
Several weeks passed and here I was, sitting at the airport, heading for Venice, reading on Discord the wise words of Dragofer on how to connect something an AI does, to the AI, so it affects him afterwards, like eating a muffin. Could the AI eat muffins? No, there was no animation for that. At least not for muffins. But carrots can be eaten, at least there is an animation for that. Cool, can any AI eat then? Only carrots? Okay. Dragofer, how do I make people eat muffins? Create a new entity def you say? That’s a bit scary, haven’t tinkered with defs so much before. After some trudging I got it to work, but the food is placed weirdly in their hands. Sigh…Well, I don’t have the time/energy to mangle this one, players just have to assume the food is in their hands, even if the food sticks through the hand. It works enough I say! And it looks funny when they eat a whole chunk of cheese. I could change that but it is funny so I say let it be! Venice was nice by the way, can recommend it for any Thief fan.
As I mentioned earlier, I wanted three different playstyles; a regular thief, and some kind of infiltrators. To kill people is fun, at least in games. I love the Hitman series so I borrowed some ideas from that game, mainly the poisoning of foods. I had tried to make scripts for that in the past so I knew roughly how to pull it off. After some time and late nights at the computer while my little boy slept and my girlfriend sorted out her Pokemons I got it to work. Regarding scripting, I’ve learned some new stuff in this mission; how to access the different AI-stats, how to spawn stuff and give them a unique name, how to get script herpes eating your brain, as you sit for hours trying to create the simplest thing and I learned how to see if the player is in a special area… The thing about spawning and naming stuff was needed (at least I think so) for the fuse-pulling script in the mission; The player can pull fuses to kill the lighting in large portions of the mission, but the mechanic (an actual NPC) has the ability to replace them, should he live so long. This created scripting problems for me with adding and removing fuses from the player inventory and again, the boys on Discord came to aid. After several evenings trying and trying I was almost about to give up but I persevered. That’s the thing about mapping (in TDM at least). It’s like a fresh swim in the sea, but after every 10 meters of swim, you slide your soft belly over a rock, littered with barnacles that rips your stomach open, or at least scratch your soft skin. It’s a trudge, but something in me loves it. Anyhow, finally I got the script to work and boy is it beautiful.
But as the player pulls the fuse, the mission is bathed in darkness. To balance that out I needed the guards to fetch lanterns. Cool, there is documentation for how to stop a guard mid patrol and give them a new target, to go fetch a lantern. No no no, not so fast. The script event for stopping patrols is a bit wonky. I do not want to sit here as a crappy programmer and throw dirt on any of the guys, responsible for the programming of some of the stuff in TDM, but having worked intimately with those yellow boxes and scriptlines I can say that they only work when they feel like it. At least the script event for making them stop is a bit iffy. My experimentation leans towards that the AI won’t change his patrol if he’s sitting and waiting for the next path; he must be on his way so to speak. That made it cumbersome to say the least to make him change patrols. I wanted to make sure that he got on his way to fetch his lantern and my solution was to not only order him to change path directly, but also add path-changes to several of his upcoming nodes. That way, if he ignored the direct order, there would be several places where he had to redirect to the lantern. Nice, it may not seem much, but these five guards took their sweet mapping time to (somewhat reliable) get to fetch lanterns. But now their original patrol route sent them to fetch lanterns infinitely so I needed to change the patrols back to normal. That resulted in several more hours of painstakingly reverting my patrol changes back to their original state. This burned some brain cells and after looking at all these yellow and pink boxes I felt like dying wasn’t such a bad idea. I can see some experienced mapper asking why I did it this way. There surely is another, more easy way, but that’s apparently not the way I roll. Not to spoil anything, but the player actions will affect the patrols in more ways than just make them go around. Sadly I believe these alterations will get washed away by the player alerting anyone and stirring up the whole ship. Nothing I build can just be standard; it needs tinkering! I'm always up for experimenting... This has resulted in thousands of lines of (probably disgustingly ineffective code) and the mission morphed into a small sandbox. I wanted the player to be able to affect the AIs behaviour in several ways so to speak. Another aspect that was new in this mission is that it is a confined space; there is no "outside world" where I can spawn more guards or just assume there is a toilet or something. Everything the people needs on this cruise has to be built. It would be a shame to seal off sections and just let the player assume there is "some diffuse area over there."
After beta testing I have changed a lot. Apart from the usual z-fighting, I have revised the lightning, added volumetric lights, revamped a lot of skins, added more announcements in the speaker system, spent some hours after a nightshift, painstakingly counting loot that doesn't add up, cried myself to sleep, added lots and lots of crap in an effort to make the place more believable. There sure are lots of bugs and misses, but my main focus (believe it or not) has been anti frustration; everything that can be frobbed (in boxes) shall be easy to frob. Only one lock in the mission is unpickable. There is no railroading, the player is free to go wherever he pleases (different player characters may alternate this though). Some people may or may not like that I have made everything that is just for decoration unfrobbable. This is a water divider among us, but I went for this design in this case which was good for my sanity. It is not trivial (at least not for me) to adjust so you can pick stuff out of TWO drawers that are near each other. Loot etc are usually fine but books can be a real pain in the hindside...Lots of lovely hours wasted on adjusting frob distances etc...
And that should be the end of the lore...According to DarkRadiant I have worked 570 hours on this, and that doesn't take into account all hours of coding and scripting. This feels like an insanely huge amount of mapping time for this small mission but I try not to judge myself. DarkRadiant says 570 so...I say thanks to all calm hours at the night shift at work where I could sit and script and write readables. And I also humbly bow myself to the scripting genuses that are on the forums.
A special thanks to my girlfriend who (almost) always lets me talk about my projects. She has also written some of the readables and voiced some recordings in the mission.
Thanks to Dragofer, Mirceakitsune and Melchior for much needed scripting help.
Thanks to YouTube channels BGM President and Sound Effects where I've borrowed some music and sound effects.
Thanks to my betatesters; nbohr1more, Bergante, datiswous, Wesp5, nightmare, Jaxa and Cambridge Spy.
And a big thank you to the mod in general for still being alive and supportive!
########################################## MISSION RELATED STUFF ##########################################
On an airship, heading for Flowerdale a lot of strange things can happen. As some people guzzle down liquor in the bar, some others skulk around in the shadows. Certain people cannot be trusted and there are even those that kill for a living. Somebody may or may not work for foreign powers. But everyone yearns for those shiny pennies.
There are some strange things in the cargo, huge coffers that can hold bodies, alive and dead. This story may unfold in several different ways; Three characters can be chosen;
Zacharias the thief, Oliver Mortimer, the assassin or Rupert Peabody, youngling of the Wizlas woodfolk.
DOWNLOAD LINK
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10w_SJSBAxxVFYTwPjJhIo48fEzvuTo1M/view?usp=sharing
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8 hours ago, Uncertain Title said:
WE FIGURED IT OUT
I FORGOT TO HAVE THEM PERFORM THE GAME/PROJECT SETUP
The models are appearing again.
Oh, there's a mission template I could have used...well, guess I'll have something to use for a new map in the future lol!
Thanks so much for the help @DeTeEff. Hopefully the wife and I can create something good together now!
Good you solved it! And also nice to build stuff with the wife!
Me and the girlfriend built a boy so hobby time got scarce
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8 minutes ago, Uncertain Title said:
This is what the directory path looks like:
That does make sense, and that's what caused me to restart the project before.
My friend is able to play the map on their own computer with no issues, however. In-game the map looks exactly the same as mine. It's just this...annoying issue with the models not appearing in Dark Radiant specifically
Don't worry about it! I appreciate any help I can get.
I believed he needs to set up DarkRadiant in "project mode" where he points the editor to the right files.
https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Startpack_Mappers'_Guide#Non-Project,_Common_Map_Setup
Project Desktop Shortcuts
To access your map as a project from Dark Radiant you can either make a desktop shortcut OR set the game parameters in Dark Radiant:
Setting Game Parameters within Dark Radiant
To configure Dark Radiant to access your map in a project folder:
- Dark Radiant > Edit Menu > Preferences > Game:
- Mod (fs_game) = mymap
- Mod Base (fs_game_base, optional) = darkmod
You must then relaunch Dark Radiant.
When you want to access the maps in darkmod\maps you should delete mymap from Mod (leave it blank) then relaunch Dark Radiant.
Dark Radiant Project Shortcut
To regularly use Dark Radiant to switch to different project folders it is easier to create desktop shortcuts for each rather than set the game parameters within Dark Radiant:
- Create a Dark Radiant desktop shortcut
- RMB menu > properties
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Add to darkradiant.exe in 'Target' field the parameter:
- fs_game_base=darkmod fs_game=mymap
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So the target field should be eg,
- C:\DarkRadiant\DarkRadiant.exe fs_game_base=darkmod fs_game=mymap
- Rename the shortcut eg, Dark Radiant mymap
Whenever you run that shortcut then the game parameters will automatically be set in Preferences.
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@Uncertain Title I have the same issue with my "module building map" because I put all my custombuilt stuff in a folder so I get notified when something in a mission is missing. Nowadays I always use an isolated approach when building because it's nerve wracking to have to search through all custom assets to add to the mission so nothing gets left behind. Because when you play test your mission by yourself, the game doesn't distinguish between local assets and assets that is needed in the mission you're playing. So when your players play the mission, they will be missing files. It's like camping in the living room and always go to the bathroom to piss and the kitchen to drink and then believe you got the camping mojo down. Then when you're out in the wild you realise that water is scarce and there's no toilet to be found! Sorry for long post and strange allegorical sidetracks.
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4 minutes ago, Uncertain Title said:
Man, I sure hope not; I had to restart my project once already because of that exact issue.
OH I should have included that playing the mission works perfectly fine. There's no issues with the models at all!
Where in the folder structure do the models live?
I guess they're stashed away in the fms folder? Then,when you open DR without specifying which mission you're working on, the paths are wrong because DR looks for them in the root folder.
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1 minute ago, Uncertain Title said:
Have a friend who is interested in Dark Radiant and wanted to look at my map. When they load it, all models that I've made appear as grey boxes.
If they try to create a model, my models don't appear. I did include my models inside the fm, so I'm not sure how to get it to recognize it as a valid directory.
Not even selecting 'Reload Models' gets it to recognize it.
Anyone have any ideas of how to fix this?
I believe that has to do with folder structure and paths. When you built the mission, you probably used an isolated project approach and that means DarkRadiant goes into your fms folder to look for your stuff, not "out in the wild" ie the "root" TDM folder...
Some more skilled person should probably confirm my tips before you start rummaging around with the files though
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If you add the standard keys, the one's designed as the dev team "intended" they are stackable, but never dropable. I made custom keys to allow dropping just because some people like that (ghosters for example). I love that you took time to look into this and your findings confirm my thoughts on the problem.
I just have to revert to use non dropable keys, and the problem will go away.
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3 hours ago, JackFarmer said:
Are the keys in question def-attached to AI entities?
Why do you need the keys to be stackable? Are these stackable keys meant to open only one specific (or several) door(s)? Or do you just want to avoid inventory cluttering?There are both entity attached keys AND laying keys in the mission. There are several instances with the same keys so they need to be stackable, and to avoid cluttering in the inv I want them droppable. It's not game breaking but I want to fix this bug...
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Still a no...
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5 hours ago, JackFarmer said:
try
'used_by_inv_name'I tried to put
used_by_inv_name Door 4 key
but it doesn't work
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I'm having problems with keys in my mission. I've made them stackable and droppable and when you stack some and drop and pick up, they seem to loose their name in the stack so they don't work on the door anymore. Locked doors use the keys entity name to open with the 'used_by' spawnarg but I wonder if there is a way to use the inv_name in some way...
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Still 30 mins remaining of the day here
Version 1.01 is up in the beta test forum, if you're still interrested, @jaxa
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4 hours ago, jaxa said:
Let's go. Tell me what version to install because I don't have TDM on this PC.
Of the game itself, that would be 2.12.
If you ask of what beta version, I'll try to release ver 1.01 today, (local time is now 08.00).
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21 hours ago, Cambridge Spy said:
How long does it take to complete this mission? I'd do it but I'm pressed for time for the same reasons why I was unable to beta test The Imperial Sword.
Depending on which character I would say about an hour. The alpha stage got rushed so I don't have much data...
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I'll have to postpone this until at least tomorrow...
(Got to aid my girfriend in some cleaning up at home before the guests arrive... Bad tension otherwise...
)
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Hello!
The time has (amost) come to enter beta testing for my entry to the anniversary contest!
It is almost weekend and I believe people may have more time to test then.
Therefore I'll start to ask for betatesters now, then I have a few hours where I can make the last arrangements so I have a playable mission(s). (There are several playstyles. Why make stuff easy DeTeEff)?
So you'll have the day to sign up, and (hopefully) I can post a thread in the beta testing forum with a download this afternoon.
/Cheers
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@kingsal I say shoot! The point of the contests are to get more missions to the table.
If I can get this to beta soon I might be able to catch the deadline :)
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As I said, I would join the contest but no guarantees for making the deadline.
Due to my limited build time and how much time it seems to take for me, to build stuff I have no realistic chance to finish before deadline. As someone said, you cannot enforce art. Yes, I could cut down on some stuff but that would leave a an empty shell of my ambitions and that would kill the purpose of this mission.
I will trudge on; this mission WILL se a release, but I think more Christmas rather than Halloween.
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Hi!
I have focused on building and haven't played any missions recently so this is probably an old issue since the release of 2.12 but I've noticed that the candle in holders is buggy with the lighting. Either the flame doesn't cast any light or there is a black box around it.
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@nbohr1more Update: As the leaking occurs in a corner I tried to add two separate slivers of shadowcaulk (turned into func_static). It leaks.
But if I combine the two into a single L-shaped func_static, the leak disappears. I didn't add forceShadowBehindOpaque 1.
So I guess I'll try the method of adding shadowcaulked func_statics to the problematic sections...
Not a clean solution, but who said mapping should be a clean affair?
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58 minutes ago, datiswous said:
If you would use another texture than calk, would there be a noticable performance hit? If not, I don't understand why mappers still use calc. It's already proofed that calc gives no noticable performance gain. Maybe use a 1px texture?
Maybe I'm an old fart that just want to build clean and caulk is a really noticeable texture, which also can be filtered out. And it's nice to use caulk because I know that as long as something from the module is visible it will be rendered in front of the caulk.
Nowadays you may surely be right in that the performance hit is negligible.
@nbohr1more It's a sealing brush so making it into a fun_static wouldn't be so good. Perhaps if I add an internal sliver of shadow brush inside the wall, func_static it and try your solution... Nightshift tonight so won't be able to test for some time though...
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Hi!
I'm doing the module approach with my current mission and I'm using shadowcaulk to seal of the individual locations from leaks/portalization etc. But at some random places, the light seeps through. I have encountered this before and then I used shadow brushes to try to cut of the light, but this doesn't seem as the ultimate solution
When I seal with just some random wood texture I can seal of the light, but it feels wasteful of resources to use those textures inside walls...
Do I just have to leave the caulk solution and use some "ordinary" textures or is there a workaround?
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Okay. I got it this far:
I'll write a list so another noobs, like myself, can follow:
1. Create a custom.def in your def folder
2. insert this
model CUSTOMNAME_tdm_ai_priest
{
inherit tdm_ai_proguard
mesh models/md5/chars/builders/priest/builderpriestmesh.md5meshchannel torso ( *Spine_Dummy)
channel legs ( origin Pelvis Pelvis2 *Hips)anim idle_eat_muffin models/md5/chars/guards/proguard/idle_eat02.md5anim //reaches out to table and eats food
{
no_random_headturning
frame 1 object_call syncLegsWithTorso
frame 21 attach atdm:moveable_food_muffin muffin hand_r
frame 48 sound_voice tdm_crunch
frame 125 sound_voice tdm_crunch
frame 130 destroy muffin
}}
3. Then add the spawnarg 'model' 'CUSTOMNAME_tdm_ai_priest' to your muffin eating man.
4. Target him to a path_anim with the spawnarg 'anim' 'idle_eat_muffin'
You may need to restart DR/The game to make it reload definitions and god knows what...-
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Fan Mission: You Only Fly Thrice by DeTeEff (2024/10/16) [15th Anniversary Contest]
in Fan Missions
Posted
Ahh, sorry forgot that. Yes, please do.