Loginnerer

Done messing around for now. Bugs 1 and 2 updated.

Noticed all of these only because I played TDM by doing the opposite of stealth to practice swordfights. None of these bugs appeared as long as I played the game stealthily. Should also note that I used Snatcher's Core Essentials @snatcher on and off, but your mod does not alter the AI anyway, correct? Bugs happened both ways. 1) AI freezes in combat - https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6371 It happens a lot with auto-parry disabled. It never happened with auto-parry enabled. It never happened with some guards, while it happened many times with specific guards. They unfreeze when player dies, or when AI is forced to re-equip the melee when player returned from a spot that usually causes them to throw rocks. Also experienced behavior of them only slowly walking towards me at the pace of "hunched sneakily searching mode", attacking once finally in proximity. 2) AI may collectively lose the ability to hear any of the players noise caused by footsteps / landing. Still unsure of what causes this, but Lockner Manor has a good layout to get to the result. Just follow the right-most path and repeat the process of winning sword-fights with City Watch, and then jump around the next guard to see if they can hear you. If they can not hear you, likely nobody can. If they still can, just combat them too and you will likely have deaf AI by the time you have dealt with the 3 Watch Guards outside. In my experience, when they hear the death scream well enough to run to its location or start searching - the deafening did not work. 3) Helmeted AI does not react to (nor hear) players overhead sword strikes made directly on helmet, stealthily from behind. Not sure if the same issue as deaf AI bug, but happened at least once while it was active. (Lockner Manor) 4) (Moor?) AI may lose the ability to hear AND see player after nearby swordfights and after two slashes to bloody their face. (I may have also Moss Arrowed them to face). Any sword strikes I make simply go through their model with no audio of impact. Collision still gets player detected. (A Good Neighbor) 5) Crash to desktop when archer puts bow away to take out melee (while I may have collided with them on staircase). (Lockner Manor) 6) Crash to desktop when I shot a shortsword-wielding charging Noble. Sound of a deflected arrow played (same that you hear when shooting a stone wall), when I expected a flesh-hitting sound. (A Good Neighbor) 7?) Sometimes AI says "Ow that hurt" merely because I block their strikes. - Is this an intended feature? Do they take actual damage too? Anyway, I didn't find mentions about many of these issues. Reporting aside, if you want me to experiment with something or find ways to replicate - I don't mind updating this thread, as I plan to mess around with sword-fights anyway. Just posted this initial version should anyone want to chime in with similar experiences, and I wanted to know if some of these bugs could be mission-, or mod-specific. Maybe caused by much or unfortunately timed quicksaving / loading?

Just experienced this "press ESC to fail mission" for the second time. This time in Hare in the Snare. Except no saving / loading was used, so I simply pressed "Restart Mission" on unfortunate timing? 2.12 Win 10

As a mere player, I have modified Far Cry 2 and Splinter Cell games. Of course it makes me happy to see folks documenting their methods, because I would not have known where to start without them. I don't have any coding knowledge, but simply follow instructions, and merely experiment a little. As for most of your questions - the more flexibility the better, for sure. Who wouldn't be happy? Always exciting to check in on what new possibilities modders have discovered, even if these features do not interest me, so yeah I have been regularly visiting certain mod pages (including yours). Idk what anyone gets out of flame wars. There was some drama around Far Cry 2 modders some years ago that was such a bummer to see, as the plagiarizing a-hole was the same guy who also actively introduced never-before-seen possibilities. TDM has left me content so far, so I haven't really cared about learning how to mod it, but now that 2.12 introduced a faster mantling which I do not like at all - I'd give it a go if it is not too demanding.

Fantastic. Can't wait for your future work.

If I had to nitpick - I don't know if this is mission-specific, but maybe pickup messages could be visible for a bit longer? Anyone else have trouble getting to read them sometimes? Luckily, the inventory is right there in the corner though. But the swift disappearance of some longer messages has bugged me, personally. Repeatedly.

To replicate: Save before opening the diary, because succeeding will soft-lock you. When diary is open, you have to input this sequence in an extremely short period of time (almost at the same time): First "Next Inv. Item", and then "Use Inv. Item" In my case: Mouse scroll down, and then F. --- This might take a while. Probably easier when not both keys are mapped on mouse, but one separately on keyboard? Maybe this happens for people who have set "Use Inv. Item" to right mouse. I'm pretty sure that was the case for me when the bug triggered by accident. And my finger is often found twitching on RMB. --- Alternate outcome that sometimes happened: Diary became unwilling to open at all even though the green item backlight triggered. It is possible that this happened because I cycled items instead of turning pages, because I timed the inputs wrong. Hope it helps.

Bug 1: In "The Accountant 2: New in Town": "Grab your gear" objective will not complete when using auto-frob. Individual clicking on each item completes the objective. To replicate: [spoiler] Exit starting room and head inside the room to your far right, next to a window. Pull the "lever" to open the secret door leading to your gear. See that auto-frobbing will not complete the objective, while individual clicking does. Bug 2: In "Cole Hurst 1: Eaton" Individual clicking leaves player with 3 functional maps, while auto-frobbing might result with only 1 or 2 of them usable. Auto-frobbing will cause player to pick up, but not acquire map items to inventory. To replicate: Upon spawning, drop to lower floor and pick up items on your table by individual clicking. See that you should end up with 3 separate maps, all of which become usable by "cycle maps" key. Now restart and pick up everything by auto-frobbing. Sometimes you are only left with 1 or 2 maps instead of the 3. If you keep your eye on pickup messages while auto-frobbing, you can briefly notice "acquired -", instead of "acquired (map item name)" You can also see that once first map is picked up, you might have to release the "frob" key and click again to pick up other maps, while other item types do not need the key to be released. Also, inventory item in the corner of the screen might say "special" with no visible icon.

Not sure if intended, but under configurable key bindings - there is "Broadhead", while other arrow types are followed by "Arrow". In-game inventory still shows "Broadhead arrow", so it's consistent with wording of other arrow types, but not consistent with how it is in controls Settings. Edit: I see "Noisemaker" is also without "Arrow", but I'm guessing both of these decisions were made to keep Controls screen more tidy by leaving strings approximately the same length?

Was trying to jump the gate to the west of guard tower. Could not mantle it, so loud landing on pipe ruined my run. Up until that point - very nice atmosphere with alternate routes. Definite revisit.

I love these kinds of long and variating guard routes. Ghosted for like 3 hours and took out 2 targets without any evidence, but at the assassination attempt of 3rd birdman who was guarding the main guy, it went bad. I don't know what I did wrong. Previous 2 both got arrow to the head and died instantly. But this one survived so I had to retreat. Not building up a powerful enough shot? Not accurate enough, even though hitting the head? Should have aimed directly in the back of head, not side? Combat difficulty is on max, and he was completely unalerted. Both of your Ulysses missions have excellent stealth atmospheres, besides the optimal way to camp on the carpet on first mission, where it didn't make sense to remain hidden in the middle of so many people moving around you. But other than this, it really lets TDM shine in it's best light imo. The challenge is fantastic, and I was immersed to a ridiculous level throughout the second mission, especially in basement sections of this, and also at the start of Genesis. I did notice a minor bug of lantern's light briefly intruding through wall of the small room near start (the one where lockbox was on table).

First I was like "eh? hatch in a jungle setting? looks a lot like.... nah, I'm just imagining it." Then came Desmond, Jacob, 815 code, Fleetwood mac albums in the very dharma-like rooms and lightning. I wonder how many references I missed. Very nice mission, however I didn't know what to do with 2 white squares in the undead section. (Not saying it is too hard. I love the difficulty and puzzles of TDM missions, and the lack of handholding. Being challenged by a game seems to get rarer these days.)

Way better than Via Domus

Mission: "The Elixir" Reading: Lady Barrington's Diary I checked the mission thread, and nobody else seems to have issues. 2.11 Well, now I found a thread already existed. I can't find a way to erase my topic, so please do so freely. Looks like a hopeless bug. Luckily it is rare.

This sexy auto-frobbing feature is a godsend for dealing with piles of coins and lockboxes, so no more clicking 20 times in a row. Now I need something new to be frustrated about. Much thanks and congratulations.

Good point on total darkness. And also I seemed to forget not everyone has the same contrast settings and it may look off to be hidden in some places you visually should not be. However, I disagree with "it's already hard to ghost". It's hard for some to be patient maybe, but not to ghost. Depends on mission of course, but getting to crouch-walk away from right in front of someone approaching you feels way too forgiving. Poor movement decisions don't get penalized, as you can always just retreat back safely. To be clear I would only be interested in it as a custom setting. Edit: If only crouch-creeping (slowest speed) would maintain invisibility, it's already a big step up imo.

Having trouble expressing how much I enjoyed this. Details on the drawn map, space to maneuver and threat density, light/shadow ratio. - Just the right amount of everything. Thank You.

And any time you move at all - your light meter shows you to be minimally visible? (The next visibility level up from if you were to stand still.) Motion should attract more attention, or no? Of course people expect games to be more fun than realistic, but bugs me a bit personally. - Would that match with how detection system works in TDM? And if so: - Do you think it would add anything to the game as a custom setting? Make stealth more immersive? Make it too difficult? Ruin existing FM experiences?

No need, but I appreciate it. I'll give that Trainer mission a go. Just wondered if it is already documented some place. It's the loudest-to-softest I'm interested in, and will probably gain that "feel" by just playing the game. And I like the effort you have put into mods. Whistling and blowing out fires makes sense, but I just could not allow myself to make the game easier, so reverted back

Sounds like here we have a disagreement about whether taking someone down is still considered a part of stealth or not, which is completely okay.

But isn't stealth gone only temporarily? They calm down again with just their weapon readied from now on. You don't consider it to be stealth after first detection at all? I don't feel like it's "insta-death" when I get detected. Stealth is hard, so it doesn't really bum me out when I get made at rare instances. I even enjoy the sudden change of pace that the chase forces on me, and in some cases it makes it easier to reach my objectives. I feel like in this universe it is common for those who hold valuables, to have frequent unwanted visitors, and when normally it feels wrong in stealth games for AI to "go back to normal", the setting of TDM really makes it much more immersive. They have no alarms to sound the whole town with, nor do they have effective tools to lure you out of hiding. Their best bet is just to keep their eyes open and ready themselves. You proceed further from them, and will soon encounter AI who knows nothing about the nearby alert. Depending on map of course. Also, I might even go as far as to say that successful evasion during chase still is a practice of your stealth skill. The manner by which you return to becoming invisible.

That's genius. Thank You for this.

I always play missions on their medium difficulty so I can enjoy the challenging stealth gameplay without having to search nooks and crannies for all loot. But this leaves me to wonder - besides objectives, am I missing out on some other increase in challenge because of sticking to medium difficulty, even though I have maxed the AI settings? - Answered: Whatever the mission author has set for differences in difficulty, but it is possible that guard awareness raises per difficulty level independently from mapper's settings. Also, (enumerated) 1. Is there detailed information somewhere about all terrain types with how much noise they cause compared to each other? - Answered: The mission "Sound alert and Blackjack trainer" should give some understanding. 2. Can you peek through keyholes, and if so - how? I might remember it wrong but one mission that I played allowed me to "lean forward" toward a keyhole to see through it. Was this a removed feature, or just mission specific? - Answered: Yes, it is mission-specific, implemented by author 3. Is there a secret on how to land / get down from a taller object more softly? I land while crouched and holding "creep" key, also try to slide down or descend by baby-steps whenever possible, but it's not always enough to not be heard.- Yes, I can always lower the AI hearing, but I think it adds a nice challenge except only for the dropping part, so figured I'd ask first. - Answered: Yes, you may be able to drop a readable document to where you intend to land. 4. Is noise masking a feature in any way? Meaning does a guard have a harder time hearing you when they are close to something that causes noise? 5. How long did it take for you to learn Dark Radiant enough to release your first mission? Thank You all for the wonderful game and regular pieces of experiences.

Ghosting is my preferred style as well. Getting through the level in first go, and minimizing the consequences of my less-than-good-enough decisions or execution - is why I love stealth games. TDM, with a mission done well, is the most immersive experience I have had since playing Chaos Theory's Lighthouse level at 11 years old. I would imagine the same reason as why some games have only one difficulty level - it is giving player no other option than to play how the creator intended it to be played. And level of immersion in TDM, for me, feels the highest when you have no rewind button in a vulnerable situation. I imagine if people are used to saving in games, they are missing out on what brings the best out of TDM. But it is just how I see it and I'm also not lookin for a debate. Besides that, I can't come up with any more reasons why it should be limited. I only use saves when: - I am done for the day and have to continue later. - I have almost no interest in completing the level, but I also do not want to revisit it in future. - I have been stuck for way too long, and the only way I see to proceed is making a potentially lethal jump to something I have no idea is meant to be possible or not.

It exists - https://www.thiefguild.com/fanmissions/3303/in-a-time-of-need-2-breaking-out-the-fence Maybe you want to Sort by Newest/Oldest and type them in then, because if a mission has less than 4 ratings, it is not meant to show up when you search by rating. Can I ask what are you taking into account when rating them? --- I threw some 3s and 4s at first, but felt really conflicted about what to take into account. Figured "ah who the heck am I to tell what TDM should be in terms of mission structure". So (for now) I instead boost the ones that I think are of high quality, and don't rate lower at all. (Even when they have a bunch of sloppy typing errors that are not just bad grammar. These are the worst.) I have not made a level myself yet, but I figure getting a lower rating can really suck the motivation to do more, out of you (which maybe isn't a bad thing for the community?). If I understand correctly - they are born out of sometimes months of effort, and maybe we should be grateful for any new addition? As long as there is a Leaderboard of recommended missions accessible for new players, they can't get the wrong idea about TDM that easily? I'd sure be interested to read a forum thread about what people like and don't like in missions.