ddaazzaa
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Posts posted by ddaazzaa
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On 7/11/2021 at 2:11 PM, nbohr1more said:
Thank you! The lighting improvements are great!
I have updated the mission database.
Thanks.
On 7/14/2021 at 4:10 AM, Kopfrkingl said:Amazing little mission thick with atmosphere, thank you. Loved the visuals, sound design, layout. Pretty good scares, too. The chapel one got me good.
Thanks for the feedback.
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I've updated a few things.
1.03
* Tweaked lighting. Ambient world lighting is a little darker. When the manor interior is dark, I added some low brightness lights around the windows.
* Performance should be better around the hedges. Thanks to HMart for the modified hedge model.
* Fixed a small "invisible barrier" issue in the Grand Hall. Also fixed some dining room loot falling through the table when bumped. Thanks to SuaveSteve for pointing out those issues.
* Cricket volume has been lowered.https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wZc_nqHoX7kQvzfg08EpoRy2hyuH7mw3/view?usp=sharing
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On 5/19/2021 at 11:14 PM, HMart said:
I most say ddaazzaa is right, I add a look at that model in modo and it is full of two sided planes, making up 5128 polys just for the planes alone.
Like OrbWeaver said this model doesn't need two sided planes, one side ones, looking in different directions, imo will be good enough to keep the intended illusion and bring the poly count down plus increase the possibility of using more models per level like ddaazzaa wanted.
attached as demonstration is the "cleaned" model itself (2660 polys) and a very basic Modo render, sorry for the quality but I think it passes the message across. Is not exactly the same but I bet if you increase the leaf count in the plane texture itself, it will look exactly like the double side one.
I finally got around to testing that model and it works well. Thanks.
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On 5/11/2021 at 8:11 PM, OrbWeaver said:
That's not exactly what I mean — I am referring to the fact the the whole mansion interior seems to be lit at a fairly constant level, even without any visible light sources. The line about "I need to get the lights on" falls a little flat when I can already see perfectly fine with the lights off. Maybe I'm just playing with a much higher brightness/gamma than expected, although I haven't noticed this appearance in other missions.
I wonder if it would be creepier if the interior was almost pitch-black, except around windows? Perhaps those weird noises would be even weirder if you can barely see anything outside the radius of your own hooded lantern (which in turn makes you visible and vulnerable). There would then be a more significant difference (and sense of relief) when you finally get the lights on. Of course this would be a dramatic change from the mission as it currently is, but might be worth experimenting with.
I was never really sure whether the map was too bright or too dark as everyone has a different display and TDM brightness and gamma settings. Since the first half of the FM has no lights I tried to lean on the side of having it a little brighter as I didn't want players complaining that the map is just too dark for too long. I can look at reducing the ambient light a little. Reducing to almost pitch black would potentially create a better atmosphere for some players but others might get frusted by how dark it would be
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45 minutes ago, HMart said:
IMO use TDM LOD (level of detail) system, meaning at far distance the HD models will change to the low poly ones no need to make new models.
This doesn't solve the issue of when moving closer, the full poly models will be displayed and performance will still be affected
1 minute ago, Frost_Salamander said:Would just scaling them with the model scaler in DR help with the long/tall versions? https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Model_Scaling
I have been experimenting with the model scaler and I might be able to use that to an extent as a workaround. Although it doesn't help with other mappers using the hedges in future as they will all have to do the same.
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On 5/2/2021 at 11:40 PM, OrbWeaver said:
I just finished this mission. My feedback:
- Very nice architecture and creepy atmosphere.
- I enjoyed the puzzle of trying to find a way in to the manor. Not difficult, but more interesting than "pick the first frobable door you find".
- The background music is nice and atmospheric, and well balanced in terms of volume. Good job.
- Lighting is very flat and uninteresting. It looks like the whole mission is lit by a single ambient with no bright or dark areas, giving the impression that I am walking around with night-vision goggles or something. The architecture would be brought to life by some more varied and realistic light sources, even if it was just moonlight shining through windows.
- Several local sound effects are too loud and with too small a radius. The crickets chirping outside sound like a smoke alarm going off in my ear. It would be more realistic to make them quieter and larger in size, so they gradually fade in and out as you walk around.
- I had no performance issues outside, but I did see the LoD hedge models popping in as I approached them. I second the suggestion someone else made to just use brushes for these. If brush-based hedges don't look good, just make them walls or decorative balusters instead.
- There is audible background noise on some of the spontaneous sound effects. It does detract from the creepiness somewhat, because it makes it obvious that it's just an audio file being played behind you, rather than a ghostly happening in the world.
- The jump scares were effective, but would be made better if the "visible thing" appeared for longer. It seemed like only a fraction of a second before it was gone, which is not really enough time for the brain to process the image.
- I'm not a big fan of one-way valves in missions. There were parts of the mansion I hadn't seen, but once the "climax" was reached it was no longer possible to do anything but escape, and I hadn't reached the loot goal.
Some of this may seem like nitpicking but I'm only raising such things because I think this mission has the potential to be something great, like the next Shalebridge Cradle or Rose Cottage, and smoothing off some of the rough edges might help to get closer to that level of quality.
* I'll look at adding some faint light around the windows to add a bit of diversity to the lighting
* I noticed the crickets are very loud. I'll probably tweak the volume and radius.
* I didn't really want to have LODs for the hedges but due to the poly count on them I ended up having to for performance. I didn't want to have to fall back to a brush based hedge. I have requested in the art assets forum if someone is able to create a lower poly hedge, that way I might be able to remove LODs for the hedges.
* All of the audio except for the voices are from the core assets. Maybe some of those assets were poorly recorded, although I didn't notice any issues with any of those sounds.
* I tried to warn players with the voice saying "beyond that door there is no turning back". Tapewolf experimented with jamming a box in the doorway to prevent the door from shutting and was able to get back into the mansion. This obviously wouldn't be possible on a first playthrough without prior knowledge of the door shutting.
Thanks for the feedback.
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Just wondering if anyone is able to create some lower/mid range poly models of the hedges that are included as part of the core assets? Currently the hedges have hi and low poly versions. The low poly versions are very basic and range between 50-100 polys. The hi poly models are mostly 2500 and 5000 polys with one even being 9600. When using hedges in maps, most times they will be used in rows or columns, this means poly count can start to skyrocket if too many of them are used. I found this out with my map Blackgrove Manor.
With the hedge models being smaller in size, it also means there are many unnecessary polys being wasted on the interconnecting sides. Creating some longer and/or taller hedges would help alleviate those unnecessary polys.
If anyone is able to help out with this, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
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9 hours ago, duzenko said:
Can't the big copy-pasted hedge issue be helped at all?
From the looks of it, the entire hedge side can be replaced with a single rect and grass texture
It's more than 1M triangles that don't really serve much purpose
I could use the low poly version which is mostly a rectangle with texture but it looks considerably worse. The hedge is currently using lods so it's only an issue when close enough. A low-mid poly hedge that joins multiple hedge pieces together as a single model would be ideal. At the moment having small hedge pieces joined wastes polys on the interconnections that aren't visible.
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They are from the core TDM assets. The hedge archway alone is 9600 polys. The rectangle hedges are 5200 each. Add a few of those in a row and an archway and the poly count starts to skyrocket.
models/darkmod/nature/hedge01_***.lwo
What's the best way of asking someone? Should I create a thread in the Art Assets forum requesting if someone can create lower poly models?
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There's only 2 versions of those models (low and high poly). The low poly model isn't really suitable for up close, so I'd have to create my own. Is there an easy way of lowering poly count on models without knowledge of 3D modelling software?
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6 hours ago, Gadavre said:
i dont use triple buffering. I don't use the video driver settings
I can't turn off VSync. since there will be Screen Tearing
Due to the nature of those outdoor areas it will be hard to improve performance much more without introducing noticeable amounts of pop in. I'm happy to release a different version with more pop in that should have better performance.
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28 minutes ago, nbohr1more said:
Thanks! I went from 50FPS to about 100FPS in the opening area. Pretty nice improvements!
Let me know if you want me to add this update to the mission database.
It should be good to update in the mission database, I don't think I did anything that would have introduced any bugs. Thanks.
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I have released a new version that should improve performance by a lot. Let me know what your performance is like now.
1.02:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wZc_nqHoX7kQvzfg08EpoRy2hyuH7mw3/view?usp=sharing
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I have completed optimizing the outdoor area. There are some very large performance improvements.
Set TDM Object Details (LOD) to Normal (or lower) to take advantage of some of the optimizations. Thanks to everyone who helped with performance suggestions.
1.02:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wZc_nqHoX7kQvzfg08EpoRy2hyuH7mw3/view?usp=sharingI picked a few of the heavier areas and did some spot checks to compare the difference.
Before: Draws 4.3k | Tris 1.98m | FPS 143 After: Draws 3.6k | Tris 0.64m | FPS 202
Before: Draws 7k | Tris 2.8m | FPS 107 After: Draws 2.4k | Tris 0.44m | FPS 208
Before: Draws 4.4k | Tris 1.87m | FPS 139 After: Draws 3.4k | Tris 0.50m | FPS 188
Before: Draws 5.8k | Tris 2.56m | FPS 102 After: Draws 4.5k | Tris 1.04m | FPS 139
Before: Draws 7.8k | Tris 2.89m | FPS 91 After: Draws 5.6k | Tris 1.03m | FPS 137
Screenshot comparisons with stats:
Spoiler
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13 hours ago, JackFarmer said:
Cull away as many entities as possible with the "hide" property.
Look into HHVF and check the outside enviroment. Most of the small entities (including plants) have a hide property on them.
Thanks, I'm in the middle of using hide at the moment and I'm seeing some very large performance improvements. I've found the best way to work out the hide distance is to temporarily insert a speaker right next to the entity and adjust the diameter to the preferred cull size, then divide the diameter in half and that becomes the hide_distance number.
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On 4/22/2021 at 9:47 PM, stgatilov said:
Yeah, I didn't know those hedge models are over 5000 polys each. That's a major optimization I can make with hedge LODs.
23 hours ago, nbohr1more said:As an addendum, with the extensive use of modular content you will likely need to embed caulk brushes inside some of the modular models so that the visportals can properly seal.
I don't think there's any problems with rooms in the manor sealing properly. Is there a reason caulk would seal any better than a brush with a standard texture?
I noticed Sir Taffsalot's Sword using the same modules and has caulk on all of the internal brushes.
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8 hours ago, Tarhiel said:
was the secret room in the chapel. How do you open it? Is there a switch in the chapel somewhere?
if there´s a way how to destroy the stone and the pesky dark voice, player should be able to learn it and do it.
If we are able to find a dewdrop, we should be able to put it to some use (bring to the burial place of Mary?) to let her spirit rest at ease?I have only one gripe with this mission - that it was too large. It has too large spaces with nothing goin on in them. Manor itself could have been shrunk down to at least half of its size and still could contain this story.
If it´s so big, why not populate it with some enemies? i have expected such a big place will be swarming with them after certain events.
And I have one question, which I wasn´t able to resolve:
How will you find out where the girl was buried?
I think it is the big withered three at left front side of the manor, near the polytunnel place, but I have no proof, I scouted it´s environment, I haven´t found any clue about it.
I even climbed it, as it seems climbable, thinking, maybe there is something in the topmost branches, but I haven´t found anything.
I've got an FAQ in the original post. I've edited a couple of the questions.
SpoilerWhere is the hidden room in the Chapel?
In the chapel under the table there is a switch that opens a hidden door on the balcony of the chapel.
Where was Mary buried?
Directly east of the pond in the front yard, you will find a green tree with a wooden cross and a patch of dirt.
There's no way of destroying the stone.
That's a nice idea of taking a posession to grave to let spirit rest.
Yes, the manor and outer grounds are quite large. It was a design choice to make it large although I might have made it a fraction too large. Kingsal pointed that out early on and it was too late at that stage to make it any smaller without a massive overhaul.
17 hours ago, duzenko said:I believe the fog only scales the underlying issue up
If the scene is already slow on triangles, universal fog will surely make it further worse
Ideally you should fix the scene so that it's under 300K triangles before fog
I've tracked down another optimization that will help quite a bit. I use quite a lot of hedges and I didn't realise that each hedge is over 5000 polys. I use heaps in both the front and rear yards so I will be using the LOD system for those hedges. I'm not too sure why those models were made with so many polys considering hedges are most likely to used in rows and in larger quantities.
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2 minutes ago, OrbWeaver said:
I recommend Springheel's video series on mapping, in particular the video about designing your map with the placement of visportals in mind.
From the screenshots @stgatilov posted, it looks like some of your portals are worse than useless. Portals are not a magic fairy dust that you can just sprinkle over your mission in a criss-cross pattern and hope that they will automatically improve performance — they won't (and might even make it worse). A portal which never closes, and does not substantially restrict the visibility of objects behind it, achieves nothing whatsoever.
If you specifically want an outdoor area which does not lend itself to visportalling, you might need to consider other techniques for performance optimisation, such as reducing draw calls by simplifying models, reducing light counts and shadow-casting objects, etc.
Yeah, I wasn't sure how to place visportals in a large open area. The concept of visportals is easier to understand when looking at smaller rooms but I never had any luck trying to wrap my head around how they work with larger open spaces.
I'm going to try what stgatilov has suggested and see how that goes.
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I have tracked down a performance issue due to the map wide fog. It seems to increase draw calls by 40%. There is a no fog version in the link below which should improve performance quite a lot. Let me know what performance is like with this version:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iXE4-W0jucFSUrDQ415XsBehCLuX8gzd/view?usp=sharing
I'm currently seeing if I can reduce the performance impact of the fog.
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18 hours ago, duzenko said:
There's an obvious performance problem at the spawn location
It's too many triangles to draw.
I used a debug cvar r_maxTri but it's broken in 2.09. I can provide you with an svn build if you're willing to look at it.
My tests (radeon 550 64-bit, getviewpos -722 -4500 -105 0 90 0)
- regular render - 2.7M tri - 21 fps
- MT=1000 - 1.5M tri - 54 fps
- MT=100 - 470K tri - 85 fps
Draw call remained the same at ~7K
Do you understand what's causing this many triangles to draw?
I tracked it down to the map wide fog. At the spawn location with fog it has around 7k draw calls. If I delete the fog light entity, it drops draw calls to around 5k. Is there any particular spawn args I can use on the fog to reduce it's performance hit?
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On 4/20/2021 at 4:48 AM, nbohr1more said:
You can check the triangle visibility via r_showTris 2.
It may be worth pinging the author about this since he might be able to use a func_portal to better occlude the manor.
Oh!
Try enabling "Frontend Accelleration" and set your shadow implementation to "Maps" then also set:
r_shadowMapSinglePass 1
I have visportals around the manor although I don't know how optimally placed they are. The starting dock when facing the manor is the most demanding in the whole mission as there are quite of lot of draw calls and the only closed portals for the exterior are at the rear of the estate. Since the manor is visible from the dock and the front walls have a couple of see through gates, occluding the manor without obvious visual pop in might get tricky. Unfortunately the mission was designed more for aesthetic with performance being an afterthought.
If anyone knows if there are better ways to visportal/optimize the exterior I'm happy to try and create better performance.
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On 4/16/2021 at 7:05 PM, NeonsStyle said:
[spoiler] Would've been better if it had been a little more populated, with say a few revenants. As it was,
I just turned all the lights on and ran around with my lamp lit once the zombie was killed. Mansion
mansion was very well done, beautifully decorated and detailed. The outside grounds though seemed
a little sparse, some hedgrows could've improved that n made the outside a little maze like.[/spoiler]SpoilerSurprisingly when I was adding the zombie I kept going back and forth about including a couple of revenants at a later stage in the mission but ended up deciding against it. I've changed my mind, see 1.01 down below and let me know your thoughts.
On 4/20/2021 at 8:17 AM, Bienie said:@ddaazzaa seems several people have left
if you're making an update to this mission consider adding the spawnarg "notPushable" "1" to the key to keep this from happening.
I didn't know about that spawnarg. Since that issue is happening to multiple people I've fixed it.
Can a few people please test this release to make sure I haven't introduced any bugs and maybe give feedback on the NPCs I have introduced. I want to make sure this release is good to go before replacing the original.
1.01
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wZc_nqHoX7kQvzfg08EpoRy2hyuH7mw3/view?usp=sharing
Changes:
* Fixed Chapel office key getting kicked around and lost.
* Made a couple of changes to starting inventory.
* Accounted for a 'sequence break' pointed out by tapewolf.
* Added a couple more NPCs.
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On 3/27/2021 at 10:09 PM, ate0ate said:
@MrMunkeepants The chapel office key is in a really hard to miss spot. I have a feeling you're not gonna like the answer. I've had tons of moments like that myself playing through a mission completely missing something crucial to progression only to find out it's been right in front of me the whole time...
The chapel office key is right on top of the note next to the bloody corpse in the main foyer by the stairs.
It might be possibe that if the key is not picked up early, it may get kicked around and lost. To try and avoid that issue I wanted the player to pick up that key early. The body should be one of the main things in the hall that draws attention to the player, so providing the player wants to look at the readable they should easily notice the key sitting on top.
On 3/28/2021 at 3:22 PM, totallytubular said:This cured my constipation.
Only bug (very minor) was...
down in the sewer area to leave, in the location with the dewdrop doll. I crouched and move against the fencing blocking the way to scoot over to the other side, and was able to pass through the fencing into that dead-end curve in the sewer. I was able to get back through same way, so no biggie.
My only concern with the map is...
there's no resolution to what's going on. All this build up just sort of fizzles at the end.
I tried to stop as many out of bounds areas as I could although I didn't extensively check every part of the map. Getting out of bounds can be fun for the player in a way. Have a look at a lot of AAA games where speed runners just destroy entire missions by completing the whole map out of bounds.
I didn't intend for there to be a resolution to what's going on. I understand some people like to have the story wrapped up nicely. I did hint as to what might have happened to some of the family in the note located in the upper sewer maintenance room (after you climb the ladder). I've found that whenever I watch a good horror movie, most of the time the ending disappoints when everything is explained and there is no mystery after it finishes. I went for a more blair witch style where you are left in the dark as to what is going on.
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On 3/22/2021 at 11:01 PM, mango777 said:
I was chuffed to see a new mission, and this turned out to be another great one! Absolutely loved it - made me jump out of my skin a few times!
Can't thank you enough DDAAZZAA! Well done on the atmopshere, the sound and voice FX - superb! I hope you make more.
Thanks for the feedback.
21 hours ago, ate0ate said:While it may not be the best example of traditional gameplay, it is still very much a TDM/Thief style mission. Any "warning" provided would without a doubt spoil the atmosphere and feelings of tension that the first blind playthrough of this mission invokes. Not every mission will appeal to every player but I assure you that this one does indeed have a lot to offer and fits quite well with a certain playstyle. You don't have to like every map and valid criticism is always helpful, but calling this mission a waste of time is just plain wrong and probably more than a little rude.
I knew this mission wasn't going to be for everyone, so I understand if people dislike it and I don't take any criticism personally. Indeed putting a warning would spoil the atmosphere I was going for.
Fan Mission: Blackgrove Manor by ddaazzaa (2021/03/14)
in Fan Missions
Posted
Thanks for the feedback.
There aren't multiple endings, however if you block the door before it closes you can make your way back to the boat to end the mission.
The doll is purely decorational.