Taffingtaffer

Guess I will be betraying my own roadmap (not that I had one planned). I'll take my time with this one and make it an addon to load alongside the main mod, instead of putting the whole thing inside like the early Volta pack. Think I said it before but some of those made it to core, like the whole female folder and the snow footsteps.

@kingsal I've uploaded a quick version of my mod with your footsteps inside a "Experimental" folder in the OP link. Let me know what you think. I've had to use the Amplify effect of Tenacity in all of your files with a Peak amplitude of 0.0 dB (without allowing clipping). Also created a "new" carpet version for the guards by reducing the files' pitch by 20%; might also want one for commoner females with a +20% pitch instead. If you would rather prefer these modifications to be done with your raw sound files I'll delete the sound files and let you handle it properly. I just uploaded them to show how my shader values would sound. I've also noticed many of your missions have a player_swim_burst01/02/03.ogg set that sound a lot better than the core files, but the credit is still attributed to STiFU.

Great. I'm leaving player maxDistance properties in, since it doesn't hurt and you never know when you'll need to copy a similar declaration for NPCs. And maybe someday there's multiplayer support for a FM and it comes into play. Now, concerning mod load order... I've re-read stgatilov explanation several times. I'm doing a quick test with Hazard Pay to see if my mod wins, but no matter how my files are named, the mission files always win. I guess that's what "Recently I ensured that the files from missions take precedence over the core files" is supposed to do. This limits my ability to make FM patches for the mod, however...

Still don't see an increase or decrease in loudness for the AI if I change maxDistance. I'd say it makes some sense; something so important as sound propagation shouldn't be messed with in sound shaders. I may be dense, though! I could do that, but right now the three core .sndshd files are in such a state that you need the whole mod to make sure no declaration wins over mine. Besides that, sound files are all over the place. I would propose this for both sfx .pk4s: tdm_sound_sfx01.pk4 Move all player climbing files from sound/sfx/movement/footsteps in tdm_sound_sfx02.pk4 to a sound/sfx/movement/climbing folder here. Move all humanoid rustle files from sound/sfx/movement/footsteps in tdm_sound_sfx02.pk4 to sound/sfx/movement/rustles here. tdm_sound_sfx02.pk4 Move all used player footsteps in sound/sfx/movement/footsteps or sound/sfx/movement/footsteps/human to sound/sfx/movement/footsteps/player. (You would need file duplication for some files, since core player declarations currently shares many files with NPCs...) Move all used NPC footsteps in sound/sfx/movement/footsteps to sound/sfx/movement/footsteps/human. Check and delete unused variation files of materials (there are a lot). And of course, specify all player-exclusive shaders in tdm_player_thief.def I basically just went for 35 in most shares, so you weren't far off. I was under the impression that the jump land bug just plays the sound at the full volume you set it at in shader declarations. And if you could provide the latest iteration of your sound mod that would be great.

I'm glad, that means I didn't overdo it for now. I'd say core player walking stone volume vs. mine is pretty noticeable, if you feel like comparing that. Now at least you can say "ok, I did make some noise" when a guard mutters to himself. This shouldn't have changed. In fact, I've been doubting that part where you said the player shaders maxDistance affects propagation. See the wiki on both properties: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Setting_Up_Speakers#minDistance/_s_mindistance The value reported by tdm_spr_debug stays the same whether it's 30 or 1; it does affect the guard footstep traveling distance for your benefit, which results in this: It's kind of a game changer. I just finished "Special Delivery" and it comes very handy with a guard that patrols in circles in a room where he'll absolutely see you if you cross the doorway while he's walking towards it.

I've extracted and isolated all relevant files from those missions. They generally increase the volume of all shaders, although there are weird cases like Volta II where they state tdm_footstep_water_walk volume is "Volta-adjusted", but it's just the core volume -25. Maybe that wasn't the default in 2017... My mod increases that value to -12.5. Can that be considered a mission change by itself? Doesn't TDM Modpack retroactively change fan missions with its features? I'm not sure where the line should be drawn. I could leave shader values for the custom footsteps as-is specifically for the missions, just adapt my files to theirs, but it wouldn't make much sense for a global version. Honestly, I don't know how to approach this. Even TDM team would have to go mission by mission to purge tdm_sfx_movement.sndshd from existence if they merged my changes, or most of them. The only mission that focused on the custom sounds and put their shaders in an isolated .sndshd file is Sir Talbot's Collateral.

Last update before the stable release. I took a express DarkRadiant lesson to add AIs walking back and forth to the footstep test map. Guards and females now play logical sounds for all used materials, at a good volume level and with a good maxDistance for the player's ears. 1.0 will bring patches for all FMs that use the Volta sound mod. This will be annoying... Each FM uses different amounts of files, has different sound shader organization and some even include their own tdm_player_thief.def. It will also include any adjustments for core shaders if any of you find anything strange. This is a call for player testing. Optional sound packs will come after 1.0

Not yet, I'm focusing on testing all vanilla TDM sounds. I've taken the liberty of changing stone and grass guard footsteps for lower-pitched versions of the player's, if that sounds good to you. There are at least 4 different custom sound sets, including Volta's footsteps. Any sounds in particular that you would personally change? I knew about those. Not sure what the first one does, but the other are modifiers applied to sound shader values. I'd rather leave those alone for consistent testing.

New update. Following the player-specific shader declarations, now footsteps have their own separate versions for player and guards, for the most part. For consistency, guards now use the player's footsteps with a lower pitch to differentiate them. (Except from the wood footsteps; lowering the player's files either sounded similar or too muffled) I would need some way to hear these footsteps to finish with core files:

Didn't really started this hoping for a core merge; it was meant to be a fix for myself, because this aspect annoys me to no end for an otherwise solid game. And if increasing/lowering core sound pitches is crossing the overhaul line... I'd like to mention that guard and female NPC wood footsteps use the same files, but females sound slightly heavier. But I get what you mean. Changing established guard sounds might be too much for the main team...

Well, halving the pitch of the player footsteps and assigning those sounds to guards is looking very promising. I'm considering changing all guard footsteps with lower-pitched modifications of the player's, to be quite honest. (as long as they sound good) I get what they were going for with the different sound sets, but as we're seeing with shared footsteps, it's more trouble than it's worth.

...Huh. That is weird. It might just be that core files get preference and additional shader files override them.

The patch isn't included in the main .pk4, I made it as a separate file in the "Patches" folder. Shader definitions are what matter, not filenames. For example, you still name the water jumping shader "tdm_footstep_water_jump_land". The console shows a warning about all three shaders being already defined by tdm_sfx_movement_footsteps_player.sndshd, but it just loads the last defined shaders like you told me.

Sir Talbot's Collateral uses the "Volta sound mod", which includes different wood sounds. I haven't touched that yet. In propagation numbers, wood is only slightly louder than stone. There's the squeak board, the loudest material in TDM, but I dunno how many authors have made use of it. It's true TDM "went through the motions" when setting propagation values and selecting sounds, but I don't think this mod should go as far as to change the core foundations with so many maps already done.

I noticed crouch-running speed is determined by crouchmod, not runmod. Crouch is basically monolithic: change the crouchmod speed, crouch-running and creeping change accordingly to that. Would be nice to have modular cvars. I've been thinking... The Sir could really beef up security some. There's an issue with footsteps being shared with the player. The shader definitions are no longer a problem, but for example: walking in the foliage in Briarwood Manor while the guards are stepping on it creates a grating cacophony. All this goes way back: I don't have any strong feelings towards guard stone footsteps like Springheel does there (assuming they are the same we use now), but shared footsteps need a solution. TDM seems to have a preference for high-pitched footsteps for the player and low-pitched for guards. My idea is what New Horizon mentions in the second thread; make a copy of the shared files, put them in the "human" folder and lower their pitch so guards make slightly different sounds. You could argue that will introduce compression from manipulating them, but we really don't have better alternatives unless someone finds different files for guards. Springheel also brings some clarity to those jumping sounds "for AI". I guess I can comment out the jump shaders without worry. I wasn't sure if there was any FM where humans can jump. I'm having doubts about the tuning of guard footstep volume, however... Do you all think the problem is just that they sound too quiet? Don't you feel they cut off too soon in the distance, or I'm too deep in into this already? My TDS playthroughs show me TDM uses very similar noise distances, so it might just be me.

Another update. Player now has its own shader definitions for ALL materials... Also has actual straw footsteps like NPCs instead of reusing grass. And I included a patch for usage with TDM Modpack. That should finally do for file organization and the player. Only NPC loudness testing is left as far as core footsteps are concerned. As for FMs, this is what needs special treatment: cauldron_v2_2 - Volta II: Cauldron of the Gods // Volta series custom sounds follow - A Reputation to Uphold // Has two wood_creak files in sfx/movement/materials gemcutter - Volta III: Gemcutter // Volta series custom sounds hazard - Hazard Pay // Volta series custom sounds moongate - Moongate Ruckus // Volta series custom sounds nobleaffairs - Noble Affairs // Volta series custom sounds northdale1 - Shadows of Northdale Act 1 // Volta series custom sounds northdale2 - Shadows of Northdale Act 2 // Volta series custom sounds prize - Eye on the Prize // Volta series custom sounds requiem - Requiem // Slightly modified TDM 1.8 stone and tile sounds snowed_inn - Snowed Inn // Volta series custom sounds talbot - Sir Talbot's Collateral // Volta series custom sounds Basically Volta's custom footsteps and a few files for other two missions.

@snatcher I went ahead and tuned the water footsteps from SeriousToni included in your modpack. See the attachment (mind the filenames, I removed the preceding "mod_"). I also feel water_run04.ogg doesn't blend well with the other three. How can we go with this? Core player footsteps are done in my view; you could include a small mod to maintain compatibility with your Core Essentials mod, but I don't know how do you set modded file orders. Before I get into NPCs (which will take a while, unless any of you want to help me playing FMs), I'd like to fix the damned inconsistent jump volume on my end: if you don't remember, I mean that thing with jumping where it sounds more or less quiet depending on your speed, but AIs always hear the running jump propagation. I've looked over tdm_player_thief.def but I don't see anything about jumping and speed modifiers. tdm_sfx_movement_footsteps_player.sndshd

You're right, I copied your spoiler without thinking and didn't notice your movement speed values were TDM's. Upload updated with better organized presets and my personal headbob values added to reduce motion sickness. I'm keeping BoilerDunce's footstep rate & movement speed and your footstep rate values, just to offer different options. As for complementary mods... I should actually check out how many FMs use custom footsteps to include FM-specific versions in the mod. I feel like author custom additions are underestimated and discussions get bogged down in TDM-core talks. Missions make this game, after all. That's why I mentioned Kingsal's (and by extension, Amadeus') running speed increase; they also increase the bow pulling speed. Not sure if they came before or after you. I've already grabbed "Sir Talbot's Collateral" files, which come from the Volta series, for a future optional addon so we can use them in all FMs. I knew about SeriousToni footsteps. Besides the water ones, which sound great, I'm not too convinced on the rest showed in the video. Didn't many make it to TDM, anyway? Their name appears a lot in TDM-core sound shader files. I'll take a look at the whole pack, however.

Main post updated with the new version and changelog. I intended to avoid modifying sound files to increase their loudness, but idTech4 doesn't seem to care about ReplayGain tags...

Nice! I had running speed set in autocommands.cfg as: seta pm_runmod "2.35" That value is used by... the Volta series? Can't remember which missions, but yeah, there are FMs that stray from the defaults. For the bob values, I ended up satisfied with these: pm_crouchbob 0.14 pm_walkbob 0.23 pm_runbob 0.30 They are as close as it gets to Garrett's rhythm in Thief 1-2. I might include both your speed values (or my running one, for consistency with existing maps) and my bob values as optional autocommands in the mod. Going back to the mod, I've tuned almost every footstep taking propagation values into account. There are some I didn't bother with, because they either need new sounds (eg. Twigs) or the values are basically the same as classic materials with variations so small that you have to add floats to sound shaders. Dirt, Foliage, Gravel, jumping Glass and Swimming files would need more loudness to reach their correct dB values. Dirt especially needs this, it sounds way too quiet for the propagation values it has. My knowledge about sound editing is very limited, so I'll be wary to not introduce clipping for the sake of this. The player was also using some placeholder carpet sounds, according to a comment in the shader. I've noted that and specified it to just use the NPC ones (they come from T2X, if you're curious). The "placeholder" ones were way too quiet to tweak the shader and they're used as barefoot sounds for NPCs. In the process, I've found mistakes in propagation values... one, to be exact! Ice crouch-run was being less loud than walk. I edited the player modifiers to interchange the propagation values; the modifier values make more sense in-file among the rest, so it's safe to assume it was a whoopsie. Finally, I've organized these darned files. tdm_sfx_movement.sndshd now is just a placeholder so the original one doesn't load duplicate shaders. Everything else has been moved to tdm_sfx_movement_footsteps.sndshd (if shaders are clearly for humanoid AIs, or are shared with the player) or to tdm_sfx_movement_footsteps_player.sndshd A couple of shaders have been commented out too because the associated sound files don't exist. Hopefully this won't break anything and will serve as a starting point to clean up these messy files. Once I look into the quiet sounds, I'll post the next release.

For the sake of simplicity (and my sanity), I will stick to what the main post states: "Footstep Tweaks is a mod that bumps up the player's and NPCs' footstep SFX volume, as well as editing existing sound files that are too loud, as in go-beyond-0db loud." My judgement will go like this: the sound with the highest final propagation value (jumping on Squeak Board) has to sound as loud as the original file can, hopefully 0db or close to that; from there I'll go downwards. This may prove certain sound files to be too quiet for their purpose, but let's make one step at a time. If a sound file has clipping that has to be addressed, even in the main mod. After that's done, the NPC footstep volumes will have to be checked so they can actually serve as a sound mechanic, but without going overboard. Like I said, the idea of our small group was to ultimately overhaul the footsteps in all aspects, but that would have come after we reached consistent, modular volume levels with what TDM has now. Daft Mugi got half-way there with the player footsteps to not introduce a drastic change in TDM's development cycle, I pressume. Another mod that addresses the base propagation volumes and the questionable difficulty levels won't invalidate my tweaks, because from what I'm seeing the material hierarchy makes sense; they would just all scale down from how they are currently. Otherwise maps would have their design completely destroyed in some areas. The rate of the steps is indeed rather fast. I'd like to look into this after I finish looking at propagation values and balancing sound shaders for the player.

I've always thought the difficulty settings make the light and sound systems feel even more inconsistent. It's not doing the mod or the players any good; maybe the problem is that the "base" (Challenging) propagation values/modifiers aren't very good to begin with. If Looking Glass tried to mess with the AIs vision & hearing between the 3 difficulties I doubt Thief would've released. They chose to stick with a more organic difficulty scale: add additional objectives, more guards, open up some parts of the map and such. Deadly Shadows did introduce higher senses depending on the difficulty, but I never noticed an increase compared to Thief on the hardest one. Maybe the "higher senses" referred to noticing extinguished lights, doors being open or hearing them open and all those details; it's what I'd expect from them, even during an unfortunate console-centric development.

If you mean messing with the propagation values, nope, I don't dare. I did take into account how far the sound travels and went with my gut feeling with the shader values from there, but for further tweaks I'll follow Daft Mugi's methodology with the test map. Hence the beta version numbering.

It's true that we have no shortage of ways to draw attention. I guess it's the mismatch of loud noise that AIs shrug off what bothers me the most about the blackjack. I swear, bashing windows plays something that sounds like a gunshot.

Mod that polishes several sound aspects that affect the gameplay, with a sprinkle of general gameplay tweaks. TDM 2.12 introduced a subtle rebalance to player footstep sound volumes. This was meant to be the first step towards an overhaul for all footstep sounds, both in volume levels and variety, since quite a few materials share sound files. 2.13 added "improved footstep sounds for broken glass and ice material surfaces" Almost one year later since 2.13, this project has completely stagnated; as a regular user that tried to chip in, I've seen the motivation fade out from the devs and mappers involved. So instead of letting it rot, I've made the early attempts to achieve this overhaul into a mod. The scope has widened a bit, since I decided to tackle annoying things such as alert 3 & 4 duration or sound propagation for blackjack/sword impact stims. Repository to report issues: https://codeberg.org/SilverKeeper/tdm-sound-polish Installation Latest release: https://codeberg.org/SilverKeeper/tdm-sound-polish/releases/download/v1.2/Sound Polish Mod v1.2.7z The mod comes in three versions: x_soundpolish.pk4 is the main version, using TDM Core sounds but with handpicked improved files from other soundpacks. Read the changelog for a detailed listing. x_soundpolish_VoltaFootstepMod.pk4 has the handpicked files from the main version + footstep sounds from Kingsal's "Volta" series, both for the player and humanoid AI. x_soundpolish_ThiefierSoundsByGin.pk4 has the handpicked files from the main version + the footstep sounds from Gin's "Thiefier Sounds" soundpack, both for the player and humanoid AI. Copy one of those to TDM root folder. Additionally, you can copy autocommands.cfg or my personal autocommands_full.cfg and rename it as autocommands.cfg. Look at Gameplay and TDM settings for a brief explanation. The `Docs` folder has detailed documentation on my definition changes, final footstep propagation values (based on TDM Core `tdm_propagated_sounds.def` propagation values) and a list of FMs with custom footstep sounds to keep track of potential incompatibilities. Out of respect to FM authors, I won't be tweaking their audio files to "fix" any inconsistencies that might arise by using my mod. Hopefully they will release updates to their FMs if they themselves share my view on polishing TDM current audio design. Overview Footsteps .sndshd files for humanoid and player footsteps were a complete mess. They were mixed between 3 files when they should've been properly categorized in 2, materials shared one shader for the AI and the player, and in rare cases they outright played the wrong sound files (player carpet footsteps were "placeholders" currently used as AI barefoot footsteps). This has been the hardest part of the mod and hopefully it serves as template for TDM Core files. Both the player and AI (but particularly the player) are too quiet when they walk. The player barely hears their own footsteps, but the AI reacts strongly to them. Material sound shader values have been balanced according to the sound propagation transmitted to the AI. Jumping shaders are the loudest and speed shaders decrease the volume from there the slower you move. AI shaders start being audible too late for them to serve as a warning; their `maxDistance` has been increased. Monsters were also too stealthy, specially spiders (and particularly the small spiders). Sound files themselves had room for improvement, too. Some files needed amplifying (without clipping, of course) to have more leeway with sound shader volumes. Others were disabled/pitch-modified/replaced. In particular, AI had some weak-sounding footstep sounds. Pitch-modified variants of the player footsteps have replaced the worst AI footstep sounds. Alternative versions with "Volta footsteps mod" by Kingsal and "Thiefier Sounds" by Gin have also been created. Sound propagation and AI While TDM AI reacts to sound reasonably well, the base volume of the player's walk and creep sound propagation shaders is a bit too high, triggering alert 2 too easily. Those have been decreased for a more enjoyable gameplay. Thief featured a bait mechanic in the form of stims triggered by slamming your blackjack or sword against objects. This was nerfed in Deadly Shadows; now even walls played impact sounds, but AI was deaf to them. Currently, TDM has the potential to bring the mechanic back, but it's undercooked. All materials play the same sound propagation shader, so AI only hears you bashing wood, regardless of the material... And even that does absolutely nothing to the alert level. I've improvised material-specific shaders for both the blackjack and the sword. There seems to be a problem with value modifiers for the weapon entities... I can't take advantage of the feature. In relation with the bait mechanic, TDM Core hit sounds are incredibly lacking outside the bow's. Understandably, providing specific hit sounds for both the blackjack and shortsword isn't an easy feat, considering the amount of additional materials TDM adds to the humble Thief repertoire. This has been addressed to the best of my ability thanks to freesound.org awesome offering of free sounds. Alert 3 & 4 have insane duration and fuzzyness values. AI takes forever to go back to alert 2; duration gets... multiplied? randomly by, at most, the fuzzyness value or any number below that. Those values have been decreased for a reasonable fail state, so players don't normalize quicksaving when they get caught. Stationary AIs should play their barks frequently so you can point them out by ear before stumbling upon them. TDM Core intervals are too wide... Now barks and snores will occur more frequently. Gameplay and TDM settings Frob distance for pickpocketting has a shorter distance than other actions in TDM. While in principiple this should make pickpocketting more "tense", the bump mechanic gets in the way here. Being caught because you miscalculated the timeframe before the AI would turn around is one thing; being caught because you bumped your head into their back from forward-leaning in another. Now frob distance of objects carried by AI is more consistent with the rest of TDM and closer to Thief. AI maximum sight distance feels a bit too high. "Hidden Hands: Initiation" open areas were a good testing bed to find the right value decrease. It got reduced from 40 meters to 30. Several aspects of the movement are rather uncomfortable. Headbobbing is nauseating, footstep rate is very exaggerated and running speed feels slow. An autocommand.cfg file has been provided for this, as well as a complete autocommand_full.cfg with my personal settings for TDM. While the increased running speed shouldn't break anything, it is an opionated value from two FM authors and might not be balanced for the rest of TDM FMs. Thanks Daft Mugi and WellingtonCrab for carrying the brief but powerful efforts to start cleaning this up, and for creating the Player Footstep Sounds Test Map. Daft Mugi in particular for sharing the tuned player sound propagation values and the pickpocketting frob distance overrides. WellingtonCrab in particular for helping with AI alert 3 & 4 values and mentioning their overrides for AI barks used in their FMs. Ujtudor for their "Collection of adjusted sounds". Kingsal for their "Volta footsteps mod". SeriousToni for their "Alternative Footstep Sound Package" mod. Gin for their "Thiefier Sounds" mod. If any dev is interested in starting and merging a stable implementation, I would suggest some considerations: Fix jumping stepvol modifiers, if they even exist. Right now the player perceives different ranges of noise when jumping, but AI always hears the loudest value possible... Make wiki documentation for every TDM material on how noisy their footsteps are for AIs. I've included all material final propagation values (as shown by the "tdm_spr_debug 1; con_noPrint 0" command) in a "_Docs" folder. Inspect all entity .def files to detect missing sound material definitions Besides that, sound files are all over the place. I would propose this for both sfx .pk4s: tdm_sound_sfx01.pk4 Move all player climbing files from sound/sfx/movement/footsteps in tdm_sound_sfx02.pk4 to a sound/sfx/movement/climbing folder here. Move all humanoid rustle files from sound/sfx/movement/footsteps in tdm_sound_sfx02.pk4 to sound/sfx/movement/rustles here. (and any other rustle files that wander around the .pk4s) tdm_sound_sfx02.pk4 Move all used player footsteps in sound/sfx/movement/footsteps or sound/sfx/movement/footsteps/human to sound/sfx/movement/footsteps/player. (You would need file duplication for some files, since core player declarations currently shares many files with NPCs...) Move all used NPC footsteps in sound/sfx/movement/footsteps to sound/sfx/movement/footsteps/human. Check and delete unused variation files of materials (there are a lot).