whoozzem

I personally still feel it's now a lost cause without first getting clarification over the licence for the def and script files from the original Doom 3, which is why, until such clarification is officially made I'm not doing anything further towards it. I believe that while currently Microsoft may turn a blind eye to copy and pasted text from these files in TDM due to its' non-commercial nature, the moment it were to become Libre then the ability to use it commercially could lead to problems. However to answer your question (bearing in mind I have a very limited knowledge of Doom 3/TDM modding other than what I learnt attempting to get a compiled cut-down version running). In terms of the game scripts the following are the only non-GPL header game scripts and you can comment them out from being loaded in source code: tdm_grandfather_clock.script tdm_turret.script tdm_audiograph.script tdm_camgoyle.script tdm_safe_lock.script tdm_safe.script Also Grayman put the values as comments in code for these two files so they can be easily created: tdm_soundprop.def tdm_ai_base.def It would be easier to seek out Greebo and Springheel and ask them to GPL their work since that would open up all the base def files without the task of re-creating them. I suspect that it would take a very long time to recreate all the def files, also bear in mind that some functionality is copy/paste from Doom 3 eula protected files (func_static for example). As regards the work done by Grayman, that would always remain NC-BY, however access to the SVN commits would allow you to diff remove his non-GPL edits from the .def files. The UI function calls for TDM are all within the GPL source code, and as the UI is all a text based language it probably wouldn't take more than a couple of days to re-create a basic (though not pretty) UI. There are many comments within the source code relating to the UI string references, so a relatively complete UI string language file can be re-created as well.

Yes, I did muddle that one up a bit, however this does mean that if B continues to keep the NC-BY licence, then you as C would be stuck since B chose the values and names (which are then expected by the engine) so in this hypothetical scenario I suppose you still could not use them. Also as mentioned previously, some people who worked on TDM are no longer with us, so naturally in some cases B cannot give permission for the licence to change, which means their work then falls under copyright law which is different between countries.

Or, just get in contact with the owners of the IP and ask them since just because an IP lawyer in one jurisdiction says it would be okay, doesn't mean it would be okay globally. There are several packs out there of scripts/definition files which are licenced under free licences (CC0 and WTFPL mostly) and claim their freedom by recreating them using "clean-room way". In fact, I used them in getting TDM running with mostly free licenced files by selectively choosing which had clearly been written from scratch albeit with reference to the originals, and which were just direct copy and paste with claimed free licences (I didn't use them). Then it was a case of finding/replacing the core engine textures, sounds, etc. the engine required to launch with free alternatives (again checking the packs since some were just copied direct from the game files and claiming to be free). In the end, the only non-free licenced files that were still required were those from TDM itself. The result of this TDM version is the screenshot I posted some posts ago here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22346-libre-version-of-tdm/page/3/#findComment-500642 However, you will notice the giant cursor on the screen in the screenshot, why? because the only reference to hiding the cursor is within the UI files which come under the game eula, so I didn't add in the command to hide it in game. In the case of the script/def files, this "clean-room" approach has stood up in a court of law when I looked online, however you wouldn't really want to end up being in the position of ending up in court defending yourself in the first place. The flaw in the def/scripts that were recreated are that they all wrote their files using the originals as reference. So if the originals are under the game eula, and if the information contained is in some way protected, then all these "clean-room" files revert to the original game eula, as the authors didn't have the right to change the licence. I believe (with a pinch of salt )that if the core scripts/files were made GPL by idSoftware/Microsoft then as files based off of or using them as parents (basically all TDM scripts/defs as far as I can make out) then all of the TDM scripts and def files would automatically become GPL as their authors could also not claim their work was NC-BY since it was then based on GPL work.

I suspect intentional, since the release appears to be more about modifying Doom 3/BFG to see what enhancements can be made to its engine base for the game and less about it being a release of the idTech 4 engine. As to why I believe this is likely the case, below is the Doom3-BFG repositories read me: So, I'd say they still wanted you to own the game since the scripts and def files are game data.

When I was compiling TDM, the github repositories never gave me all the files TDM required to compile (such as scripts/def) possibly because I wasn't cloning the repository but just downloading the github zip file, so maybe if I had cloned it then it would have pulled in other items. However the source.zip file did include everything required @Fiver https://www.thedarkmod.com/sources/thedarkmod.2.13.src.7z I gave it all up as a lost cause in the end, the engine relies too heavily on scripts and definitions taken and/or based on from Doom3, and those files are still under the original games eula, they were never added to idsoftwares github for download. The only option truly available would be if someone contacted idSoftware (or possibly Microsoft) and asked nicely - but that's not something I personally intend to do. On the flip side, the Quake3 engine hasn't got these issues, so you just need to backport TDM to Q3

While I agree with you, there's no getting round the fact that the licence itself specifically lists DEF files (and likewise all sound/material shaders etc. since they're also non-software components) as being under the artistic licence: So, only DEF files that were worked on by specific people, who can still be contacted (since aside from out of date contact information, Grayman worked on some of them) to gain permission could either be used in full or information used from them based on the above.

Yes it is the anthro character. In terms of the scripts, most have the GPL3 header in the file, those that don't (created by @Obsttorte and @Dragofer) therefore fall under the other licence. But, without first knowing the contents of the file how could you redefine any undocumented parameters, an example being the difficulty entity - it's a spawnclass of idStatic, but you don't know that without first looking in the definition file as there's no documentation, source code references etc. to gain this information from (unless maybe you can add one in Dark Radiant as a map entity, but even then you wouldn't know the required strings for that entity unless you looked at the file). If you did look at the file, wouldn't any new creations then be building upon the CC_NC_SA licenced work, which would then put it under that licence? (isn't trying to understand licences fun!). On the flip side, due to the way the game was structured, if these TDM .def files were announced to be GPL3: atdm:ai_bark_priority atdm:ai_base atdm:melee_set_base atdm:ambient_ai_base atdm:ambient_head_base atdm:attachment_point_swinging atdm:attachment_point_swinging_LOD atdm:campaign_info atdm:entity_base atdm:flag_waving_pirate atdm:hanging_laundry_anim01 atdm:hanging_sheets01_anim01 atdm:longbanner_anim01 atdm:propgated_sound_base atdm:shop atdm:team_relations_default atdm:vine_piece Then I believe just about every def file created (unless they came off some of the damage defs which I didn't list) by anyone would automatically become GPL3 (whether the authors of other .def files wanted it or not) because these are all the parent entity definitions from which all others are children, so they would (due to the way the GPL3 licence works) also inherit that licence.

@Fiver - Old thread I know, but in light of my own recent attempts I can say that all the core scripts are GPL3 apart from these six files: tdm_grandfather_clock.script tdm_turret.script tdm_audiograph.script tdm_camgoyle.script tdm_safe_lock.script tdm_safe.script These are not essential scripts in regards to the engine loading and being able to run round an empty test map. The below .def files can (and were) recreated as their default values are in the source code: tdm_soundprop.def tdm_ai_base.def However, the following .def files are essential and unfortunately cannot be recreated without actually looking in the files themselves (or using Dark Radiants' entity class tree list, but I'm guessing this information is gathered from the .defs @OrbWeaver? so is still under the CC_BY_NC_SA_3 licence?) to see what information/entity definitions they contain: tdm_base.def tdm_ai_head_base.def tdm_ai_heads_springheel.def tdm_difficulty.def tdm_inventory_loot.def tdm_player_thief.def tdm_weapon_base.def tdm_weapon_unarmed.def I believe the above files were created by both @greebo and @Springheel so, if they said it was okay to recreate them based on the values/variables within them (or if multiple authors of the .def files gave permission) then it would be possible to get a basic playable version (by which I mean running round a test map). I do know from my testing that if you mess up a definition you crash the engine Anyway, attached is an image showing the most basic of basic setup for getting the engine running a test map with all of the non-GPL3 content (by which I mean core engine files - not the whole TDM file structure of tetxures,sounds,models, etc. just to clarify) removed and replaced with permissively licenced assets (the only non-permissive files still used being those 8 .def files mentioned above). The lightgem does work, but I of course had to replace the UI and never put any gui:: calls in, also the cursor is stuck on screen all the time and all my white backgrounds on my simplistic custom main menu turned black. @MirceaKitsune thanks to you releasing your character pack under CC0 it gave a test player model (though as you can see the original player_thief def file does break it somewhat).

@datiswous New 2.13 cloth physics looks amazing!

If you don't want the full body, but only what you can see in the mainmenu then: tdm_gui01.pk4 >> dds >> guis >> mainmenu >> sidefigure1.dds is the image file used. You will need a program that supports .dds viewing such as gimp.

In investigating this further I have come to the conclusion that, unfortunately, it would be impossible to change the licence from CC_BY_SA_NC to GPL3 on the text files due in part to not knowing every author that worked on each file (since some contain comment lines created by different people) and also it now being literally impossible to contact all the people who worked on each file. Additionally, while the majority of text files could be recreated with no reliance on the originals (in the case of @Fiver's Libre version idea, sound/material shaders would likely all require creating from new anyway, so that any values would be specific to the replacement media files) it is the DEF files which are the main issue as their contents are critical to core engine features. Also, the c++ source code appears to only contain references to parent entity classes (e.g. IDMover but no Func_Mover) which I believe means that any entities that are defined in the .DEF files (along with their associated parameters and values) are also licenced under the CC_BY_SA_NC and can't be changed to GPL3 if I understand things correctly.

Other threads that I found when I also had this issue suggested (and it works) getting the full installer off moddb: https://www.moddb.com/mods/the-dark-mod/downloads/the-dark-mod-212-full

I would like the development team to consider applying the GPL3 licence to the following Text file which was created by @Tels, @Greebo and @Dragofer. tdm_internal_engine.mtr (darkmod>materials) The reason for this request is that it is a critical core file and without it the engine (when built from source) cannot launch at all. I would also like to query whether the following script files created by @Obsttorte and @Dragofer: tdm_audiograph.script tdm_camgoyle.script tdm_grandfather_clock.script tdm_safe_lock.script tdm_safe.script tdm_turret.script were intentionally released under the CC-BY_NC_SA_3 licence or if this was an oversight? I ask since all other .script files included with TDM (and which are all called by the engine source) all contain GPL3 headers while these files have no licence information at all so naturally fall under the CC-BY_NC_SA_3 licence. Additionally in investigating which text files are required by the engine depending on scenario (and while I understand that the number of developers who are no longer on the development team may affect how many of these files can be licenced) I wondered if these too may be open for consideration as to their licence? tdm_base.def tdm_soundprop.def cursor.gui mainmenu_background_custom.gui mainmenu_background.gui mainmenu_briefing_video.gui mainmenu_briefing.gui mainmenu_credits_background.gui mainmenu_credits.gui mainmenu_custom_defaults.gui mainmenu_custom_defs.gui mainmenu_debriefing_video.gui mainmenu_defs.gui mainmenu_download.gui mainmenu_failure.gui mainmenu_loadsave.gui mainmenu_main_ingame.gui mainmenu_main.gui mainmenu_message.gui mainmenu_music.gui mainmenu_newgame.gui mainmenu_objectives.gui mainmenu_quit.gui mainmenu_settings_audio.gui mainmenu_settings_controls.gui mainmenu_settings_gameplay.gui mainmenu_settings_gamma.gui mainmenu_settings_guisize.gui mainmenu_settings_language.gui mainmenu_settings_video.gui mainmenu_settings.gui mainmenu_shop.gui mainmenu_success.gui mainmenu_utils.gui mainmenu.gui msg.gui tdm_objectives_core.gui tdm_subtitles_common.gui tdm_subtitles_message.gui tdm_gui.mtr tdm_tables.mtr tdm_guis.sndshd all.lang english.lang These provide the foundation of a working base main menu. TDM's main menu also includes several undocumented commands (that neither show in listcmds nor listcvars) which are useful to know for anyone wishing to use the base source code. I have listed the .lang files solely because of the #StringNum associations, I appreciate that they are not truly required for the above to be a foundation. While looking into how far I could break TDM in removal of files, I came across this thread by @Fiver suggesting a Libre version of TDM: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22346-libre-version-of-tdm/ I believe that in that instance all text based files would need to be GPL3 licenced, leaving only videos, sounds, textures, models and the like as still being under the CC_BY_NC_SA_3 licence since remaking the files would likely result in most cases with near-identical looking files to the original. Thankyou for your consideration.