TheUnbeholden
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Posts posted by TheUnbeholden
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this is the TDM fan missions section
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I like it except for the grunts that the player character makes when he mantles... sounds a bit to burly for a thief. Wondering if you could use only non-grunting sounds for that.
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Lockbox key? Why the incorrect names, they are called doors... just rename it to door key #1
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My main concern for this how you guys are taking the approach to the stealth gameplay, each Thief game has brought something new to the table. Story and graphics are important but the nitty gritty, the reason we all play for is the gameplay. How will you guys take on the stealth gameplay, is there any experimentation being done to bring it to revolutionary heights? What I mean by revolutionary: http://sneakybastard...s-meant-for-me/
Taking it in new directions.
To get some conversation and analysis going, On the weekend of June 22, Sneaky Bastards (a group of people dedicated to bringing the best stealth games to the public eye), kicked off Stealthjam: the world's first global stealth game jam. It was a weekend brimming with stealth design discussion and furious prototyping, and teams of independent developers from around the world raced to explore new forms of stealth gameplay in just 48 hours. What follows are the best indie games; that take stealth in directions we have not seen before.
The result? 21 one games for your pleasure
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I've found nastiness, like 3 ladders that don't let you climb out which is kind of immersion breaking if it looks like you logically can within arms reach but you you just fall to the bottom and take damage :/
Apart from that and the really obscure clue for the tomb
(me no speaky latin)
, It was one of the most beautiful and well paced FM's I've played
and boy the ghost revenants
took me by surprise
I liked the level design for the most part, and some tough searching for the vault key... nice
The tavern, to tough for me, that damned noble men and him seeing me through that coloured glass window when I can't seem to see him :/
The difficulty was fairly up there only for the objectives and I think there was enough guards seeing as the areas are not so much big but long, quite a few hallways that fit into the whole builder thing of being simple and practical for all those bedrooms. Though I would have liked more to find in them like readables and such.
It seems theres alot more loot than meets the eye to...
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greebo is contributing a zombie model
I thought there already was a zombie model.
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Following a post someone made a while ago...
Was able to ghost through the werewolf area (which is, again, not realistic at all, not your fault oviously, but the way they coded the monster, you CANNOT fool a wolf's sense of smell, they would catch your scent dozens of meters away, and also the hearing, which is freaking good on pretty much all canines; now that I think of it, I think it's safe to say they also see clearly in the dark, at least many times better than us... What I'm saying is that they should be basicly stalking-proof
Totally agree. I personally think that while a wolf is a excellent hunter and impossible to sneak right up to it or passed it unless you keep a distance of at least 20 metres... a werewolf is a like a incredibly powerful version of it that not only would have those heightened senses but also have a highly strong, fast, and regenerative body that easily makes them the most powerful creature in the world.
It could take on a elephant and win, other various lions, leopards, jaguar, grizzly bear. Perhaps a Cheetah might beat it speed wise but aside from that a werewolf is king of the jungle. You would have to find tricks to beat it like explosive arrows, flashbang, a few land mines, but if you don't have all that then its basically about keeping a distance from it... or run like hell when it comes and prey you have a rope arrow to get to high ground or barricade a door. If anything I think it should be upped senses wise for the following Dark Mod v1.8
It should be the most challenging AI to come up against.
Wondering if this beast has ever had a tweaking made to it?
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Very nice mission, the sort that you love to do every once and a while. It had some tough mission objectives, others like Benny's footlocker just needed some common sense. Overhaul I liked the details, going through all of those houses, eaves dropping in the bar, the tight alleys and that random cat scared me you bastard
even some secret loot high up there for the real ninja thievers. I admit there wasn't as much AI as I expect but then again this isn't a big mission and these places are not high security so it makes sense.. the tight level design helps up the difficulty factor.It was quite beautiful from the tower top, and I felt that I'm generally let down by easier FM's, this one made up for it in all the right ways. In general I liked the hideout/sewer system, and the premise of the story even if it was a tad simple.
I think I'm going to like what b1k3rdude conjures up.
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Well I suppose when it comes down to it, it doesn't matter if something is made by one or more people. The reason why I used the word 'official', is that the people who created this project made it the way it is through collaboration, and it would be pretty dam tough to make a 'game' on ones own especially with adequate play time. I would say that NHAT or Sotha's could 'be official' if most of the TDM team agreed to it. I think it would be a shame to not have a 'collaborated effort' on the campaign. It would be missing out on alot of talent. I think everyone deserves to be part of this journey to the top the mountain so to speak...
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What difference does it make how many people worked on it? If Goldcochobo had more people than just himself working on NHAT (which is quite possible, I have no idea) does that suddenly turn it from an "fm" to a "game" by your definition? What possible impact could this have on the new players we hope to attract to TDM, since they won't have any idea how many people worked on either campaign?
the length, and the fact it comes with the mod would speak for itself...
Aslong as it covers the 3 criteria as I said.
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Crucible of Omens isn't an "official" campaign, any more than No Honour Among Thieves was. And NHAT did have a story that went "full circle", so that criticism doesn't make much sense to me either.
Ah but you see it is. Because its a collaboration. Not a individual effort.
My 3 points stand even if NHAT is the exception to the third point.
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What exactly do you think will make a campaign more significant than a series of connected missions, like Sotha's missions or No Honour Among Thieves?
Ah you beat me to it. I was thinking over why small series of connected fm's don't hold the same water as a official campaign does. I think it stems from the problem of not catering to "convenience". When people fire up the TDM they may not know where to start, what to download, if they have to google 'tdm storymode/campaign' or what not.
Having Saint Lucia fm automatically come with TDM was an idea thrown about before, and I think that it was a great idea and only now is it being put forward for 1.08.
Not to mention a campaign is something that would be brought to light through publicity. Connected FM's hasn't gotten that advantage. Even I didn't know there where any until recently.
Theres also the idea that there is a big contrast between each series of fm's. Each are made by different author & each contain their creators idiosyncrasies. That is a advantage in my eyes but it creates a problem of 'being fractured'. They are released in parts (fm's), so when you start playing them you know that it isn't the "end", the author is probably making another part. The story hasn't come full circle. So the experience isn't complete. The experience is fractured.
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And the second problem I have with your proposition is that a campaign will bring the "success". That was said about a v1.0 release, about a release that is feature-complete, about "when we have more than 10 FMs", and about almost anything else. A common theme is now the campaign and D3-free TDM. But you can bet that if a campaign is released, the next big thing will be "TDM will be succesful if they have 2 campaigns in 5 languages, with a blockbuster movie in the cinema" or some such nonsense. Basically, it never stops. People always ask for more, but rarely ever contribute. (I don't fault them, it just tires me
Edit: It is like people complaining about the free book with the 50 short-stories (where the major number of them is very good), that they wan't a better cover picture and that they'd like a "real novel" instead. You cannot win in this "game", when you deliver content for free and people still complain that they want something else or something bigger, better or more. That starts to really annoy me - and it makes me really questioning why I am still doing this. End of edit.
Nobody is questioning the amount of work put into TDM by the select few team members for it to get this far, or even the fair amount of publicity it has received on moddb by winning that award & the attention its gotten on TTLG, thief blogs. (even if TTLG was a mostly negative one).
The problem is it hasn't gotten any where near enough new players/commentors and contributors as it deserves. I think the point is there are milestones, and each one gets closer to the level of success/popularity that the mod should have according to how much work has been put into it. The campaign is going to put the mod towards a lengthy, coherent & proper gameplay experience, that people look for in mods/games.
I know what you are saying, and I'd love to have a campaign (just to shut up all the "we need a campaign" threads so we can back to work
However, I really really do wonder how a campaign will work out, given that even simple low-level tasks (like replace a few D3 specific textures, or paint some characters for the foreign language support) are not getting done because nobody has time, can be bothered etc. And that's not even the large coding tasks, or the large mapping tasks (a campaign needs a lot of mapping time!).
Also, if you look at commercial games, often they have very very short playtime, and yet, they sell millions for the multi-player (or even for their short content, Half Life Lost Coast comes to mind). IN these terms, I wonder if we really *need* a campaign, or if people just wish we had one and justify their wish with "oh the MOD will really be successful and shine it's strenght then". With that reasoning, give people one campaign, and you *will* see them complain that it is too short, that TDM needs really a trilogy of campaigns, that we need multiplayer, that it needs to run on consoles and android etc. When it comes to wishes, the sky is the limit..
And at the same time, the developers (modellers, sound guys, everyone doing the actual work) get burned out every second week, and see nothing but work, work, work, no joy. And for every bug we fix, 5 new ones crop up. Before v1.06, our bug tracker had 400 unresolved issues. Now, even after fixing a lot of bugs, we at 440 open issues. Granted, a few are feature requests, but the workload doesn't seem to get smaller, and the outlook is dim (e.g. "a 50% chance that yet another person gives up working, slight flaming wars in the forums with high temperatures leading to a potential ban").
So, I can just wish the guys working on the campaign all the luck, because they gonna need it. And it will be cool when it is done! Let's just hope that it works out, and that the rest of the mod doesn't fizzle out in the meantime.
Yes but you've just highlighted the crux of the problem right there, even though your arguing against a campaign. That the lively of TDM rests on the balance of a few dedicated people. If all they ever do is fix bugs or continue working on the core of the mod and popularity simmers at the point its at,
It poses a bigger risk of having the core development team "burning out", and having everything die with them.
all it will do is make things stagnate... less activity on the forums & less fm's will mean less people will get interested. The key to turning that around is not just getting featured in a magazine or by big name gamers in podcasts/reviewers, is by having a actual campaign... or multiplayer.
Where not just arguing about ambiguous things like "how popular can mods get?" or "how popular can thief be and the style of gameplay we offer?"
You know why games do the level design once they have their editors up and running, and make the textures/models along with the level design, expand on them both as they go through the game development cycle... and lets not forget the concept art and storyboard that is done before any of this. The campaign is essentially a top priority for games because it was what its all about. Putting all the attention on creating the "tools" for people to use and more core content is limiting in it's appeal.
The obvious exception is a "open world" environment like Minecraft, eventhough all the work went into 'tools' for the people to use, its in a big randomly generated environment that anyone can get into... which is level design! It's a rare thing and where not going to talk about exceptions here.
Games are about the gameplay. It's why people purchase them and seek them out. So creating a coherent lengthy experience, the key word there, is what people are after.
It's the biggest milestone... it's not about always wanting more. Seeing higher and higher mountains.. it's about actually making the damn mountain rather than just growing more grass & laying more foundations.
The only valid point is the other side of the coin, if the localizations aren't done by the time the next big publicity event we risk losing more of the foreign Thief fanbase & potential fans.
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Nice work by the way.
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Very nice mission from a beauty standpoint, like the solar system, telescope and sky, Definitely better than most of the ones I've played in terms of size, and while I liked the premise of the storyline, sort of expected more from it. Like the pagan book I found skipped the Pagan lore which I felt was sort of a stupid joke. Let us decide if its gibberish... There was a interesting use of humor in some readables and the briefing and so I guess thats your trademark.
While I liked the cramped stairs, and a general sense of claustrophobic design where rooms are only as big as they have to be for their function, but the priests room you would expect to be bigger...
The secrets where nicely placed indeed.
also the gameplay, while fun exploring and looting the place the AI where at a loss to stop me due to how few of them. It may have been part of the storyline but that was a limitation none the less.
I'll have to disagree with nbohr1more.
Thats gonna mark you down because dealing with the AI is the difficulty of a mission hence why the player take/finds all that equipment.
Even a map and compass is to a lesser extent only necessary when theres a AI presence because if they're patrolling about you don't want to have to be going back and forth trying to find a alternate way into the locked rooms or to get up into the upper rooms. So a map is there to save time and lessen difficulty.
For these reasons a map should be designed around to accommodate AI, not as a after thought. While I understand that if you don't put much focus on one aspect of a game, it allows you to put more focus on other aspects like visual design/exploration... But I like to have my cake and eat.it .. not just look at it and pick the cherries off it.
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http://www.thedarkmo...tails.php?id=58
The bloodgate link listed there doesn't work... you have to take the 's' out of the /fms/ part of the link....
Also the Fidcal link doesn't work, you have to take out the 'www.thedarkmod.com/' part out of it
A real shame to have 2 broken links for a great FM like this one
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I always considered the lantern to be as good as it can be. But you have a good point! I support the idea of increasing its radius (it will probably need some other adjustments to make this work though)
Agreed, Lantern is supposed to have a much more vibrant light because it can have oil instead of a candle.... it definitely should have a larger light radius than a simple candle. Then I might actually use it to navigate...
I also think you should be able to drop it... its weird how you can drop the spyglass but not the Lantern... when theres actually good reason for dropping it, to use it as a portable lightsource like if your in a big cave and want to light entrance up for instance. Or other key location that you need to keep your eye on.
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I wonder if its possible to allow the player to use the dagger I've seen some enemies use (like from the Too Late fm), and if its possible to make it throwable. As a knife lover this would allow me to play my favorite way, perhaps some console command could switch between the short sword and knife for those who prefer it.
I would like to make stiletto skins.
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very nice visual style, much like a real hideout would be. Lovely litlle yet hard encounter, some good hidden loots, very lite on story... its a nice mod and one to come back to.
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Played through this FM just now.
Great stuff! More this kind of small, but fun and well made maps! I wished there was more readables to convey the agendas of the people living /working in the warehouse.
The mission was slightly tricky because of the electric lights which could not be turned off, but still quite enjoyable. And the metal surfaces kept me on my toes, literally. Good thing I bought the moss arrows.. I also liked the boards in the other room, which caused noise: a nice warning that the other guard is soon popping out the door.
Ditto !! I found this quite enjoyable for a small mod, mainly because it was tough. Electric lights are always a problem for me, along with the metal floors. It really makes you study the guard patrol paths rather than zipping through unaware guards leaving the place dark and somehow less wealthy in a short time.
But than again to much of that could be annoying hence why these sorts of places are always rare builder type laboratories.
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Talk about tiny, No wonder I didn't hear of this back then. Even the apartment was unnaturally claustrophobic. I expected it to be a lot more difficult to find the hidden chest. I actually expected to get a shovel and dig around a large big garden in the back, to my dismay it was much easier and blander than expected gameplaywise. I did find it weird that I had to kill the guy but heh, I'm not complaining
Boy was it tough though that underground builders structure. Lights, metal floors all make me sad. On the challenge factor it ranked quite high considering how small and how few builders there where. It's tough to say whether I liked it or not. The visuals I think where quite good overall but there wasn't enough for me to give a favourable mention.
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Talk about short, it was nice, visually appealing but there could have been more to do or read. Anything to add some kind of replay value. If this is a first mission it was done very well I think, I had some time to get that dam guard out of the room. In any event there is something that every thief mission can do to make me excited.
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http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Surface_Types
I searched the article to no avail. How do I modify how much noise certain surfaces make. So that I can make players make little to no sound on marble and metal floor. Lowering AI_sndvol only ends up making noise arrows useless along with throwing items for distractions..
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Hmm, they are working on my side.
However, if the NPC you are trying to lure guards which are on their idle patrol, if the arrow it 'quite far' away, they will just become alert and start looking around, not actually trying to get to the noise. If you fire closer to them, they will head towards it.
I would have expected them to head towards the source from further away.
They are not even alerting guards on my end !!!
Streets and Rooftop Missions
in The Dark Mod
Posted · Edited by TheUnbeholden
I would love a pure rooftop mission, I've always loved going on rooftops more than anything else in Thief, but for some reason so few mods (or even official maps) allow you, most go out of their way to bar you from being able to go atop by spikes at the top of walls like T3.
People choosing the third option sounds a bit to much of bullshit & chips, ie wishful thinking of people who want their cake & eat it, I would say the streets would sacrifice detail & probably would have you die from the fall. Certaintly I wouldn't mind a short detour that goes to the ground level, but mostly it would be rooftops or maybe going down a level or two to leap from a window in order to get across to another building.