RPGista

I will send you a pm my friend.

Sorry, but what kind of an idiot would deem a great fan effort that took years to make and is nothing BUT a homage and a celebration of a classic game to be an insult to the original games? I often hear about this unsual opposition coming from the Looking Glass forums (though Ive only been there a bunch of times to read about the original Thief and System Shock 2 games), and it really blows my mind how one would not embrace a new and alternative view on your favourite gaming style, that was tailor made to fit the community expectations and tastes. The fact that the team decided to relate it intensely to the original material should only make people even happier, because it means its easily comparable to the game they are familiar with - we could have a Dark Mod that takes place in the future, for once, but no, again Thief was celebrated as a major model to aspire to. Someone could please explain it to me whats the deal with a community NOT enjoying and taking advantage of a quality mod that took years to make, received high praise from the specialised media, and is now a great plataform for new and different missions in a modern engine, greatly customisable and open to interpretations and personal takes? It just sounds unreasonable to me...

The map is starting to lag now, not so sure why. Maybe I put too much stuff in there, but it mostly began after placing AI, routes and triggers. I was going over performance boosters and nocliped half the map, also REALLY simplified the map world with noclip brushes, dmap seems faster but no noticeable differance as far as I could see. The map is still playable in my laptop (in low settings), but I wouldnt want it to get worse than this for the people with low systems (and it would be ironic to not be able to play your own mission confortably in the end). There's one more AI to get in and a (somewhat complex) triggered scene to build, which wont make it easier on the cpu for sure. I also halved the thinking time for AI at a distance, made some dormant, not much impact either, took two out (will make it less challenging for those of us who dont flee from a fight, damn my computer). The thing is, I have a transition of ambient light to make right at the last part of the map, did a test run now with dynamic ambient light on (on the whole map) and it seemed to worsen the fps quite a bit (was expecting that). I already disabled the dynamic thing (I hope, wont test anymore today), anyone knows if this will make a difference? Is the script for the transition between zones be much of a drag on its own? Should I look for an alternative (if any), some kind of triggered event? Also, would it be better (and would it work) to replace my trigger multiple, that changes the npcs team if you stand there too long (lock picking), for a trigger once that is somehow activated when you unlock and open the door that should be closed?

Hey man, this is awesome, exactly what is needed, fully descriptive information with generous graphical support, focused and fun, all here inside the wiki so you have the information at your disposal. Brilliant work, your ability to writte those and the amount of info is amazing. Soon as I finish my mission I'll be going over these for sure (fingers crossed for a modeling one like the Modo tutorial sometime in the future) .

This is very nice! I'm just discovering the possibilities of simulating bounced light now, I thought non shadow casting lights would be the answer that would allow for several degrees of light levels, but the visual result is inconsistent with them (because of the way they light up surfaces that are facing it, even when they shouldnt be lit), and pretty hard not to leak it to other rooms. So Im making a couple of experiences in my map as to how to use more than one light source to create the illusion, depending on the room and type of light source. Will be looking foward to that tutorial! Another cool thing I discovered pretty much yesterday is that with zone settings you can make the room light level increase of decrease depending on how many light sources you have inside it, also simulating another aspect of bounced light. I dont think I'll have time to experiment with it further though...

Sorry to hear Jysk - if your street section is linear, having many visportals will only help once you get into some other area connected to it (will be easier to split it in parts that you can and cant see for the engine), so as long as you isolate well all spaces leading to it, even if you are rendering the whole street at once it wont be too bad (that happens in my map). Take a look at Baddcog's visportal series of tutorial, they are specifically devoted to street and city areas.You probably know this all by now, but its a bad idea to cross visportals with brushes (turn crossing elements into statics), and many sections of visportal brushes stichted to each other sometimes do not work in my experience (you'll often see some pieces of the group that are green and working while others are simply not there, for example).

About the objectives, thanks a lot Fidcal, you are always extremely helpful. Will give it a go immediately after I somehow control this zone setting thing... As for visportals, I spent an hour stiching a perfectly flush group of visportals just as I had done in previous areas of the map, around complex geometry, it failed for not appearent reason no matter what - deleting and making a single one, right through brushes, entites, movers, and now it works... So yeah, you never know with them I guess.

On adding invisible objectives later in game (http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Objectives_Editor), it says that you can use some triggering entity or stim system to activate it - how would I go about making an optional objective appear after youve read a certain readable? Could optional, unfulfilled hidden objectives be nullified and disappear if a certain AI is killed? What about AFTER it was fulfilled? (Example: you killed a monster and saved a princess, so you get the recognition ("You just saved the princess" check), but then you kill the princess for some reason, so the objective wouldnt make sense and should disappear again (and never show up if you killed her earlier).

Brilliant work. It does look more natural, and I like both the new details and the new textures a lot!

Decals are semi-transparent textures you apply to surfaces on layers, generally to add dirt or stains to it. Its an artificial way of making it unique (you add a grime decal to a wall that is in contact with a mud floor, for example). They are cool, but become really tiring to make after a while, plus they are basicly semitransparent planes almost "glued" to your brushes (walls), so they can be really annoying to manage or tile sometimes.

Its probably the scale of the texture applied to the brush (that could be too big). If you select the brush, and then press S, a window will appear in which you can move, rotate and scale the texture on the faces or brush selected. First thing to try is to press on the "Natural" option on the botton (Texture Operations), this will reset the texture to its default values. EDIT: Sorry, replied at the same time as Grayman...

Is this the first Resident Evil mansion? If so, this definetly looks familiar, though I played that game ages ago... Looking very interesting and shows careful attention to detail, awesome work indeed.

Just read through it (will actually do the exercise later), and I found it to be of brilliant quality, friendly explanations, funny comments, thorough step by step and abundance of images (an interesting example too). Loved it, already looking foward to the next one!

Cool, here's my guess: AI placement - 90% - they are all there, but there's still some editting to be done (like worry about different faces, clothes, and even attributes) AI pathing - 75%, most of the AI patrols are done, only a few left really. Brush geometry is around 99% - that doesnt include decoration, decals, etc. Im guessing I'll leave that part for last and see how much can be done. BTW, still working on that church, but its basicly the last building that needs major construction. Light work is around 75% I would say, sketched pretty much all over, but still needs revision adn tweaking. Some of the complex stuff with AI was tested but I stll need to place in the map, link to objectives, etc. Doing this now actually. Objectives - still havent touched them, Im counting on the Startmap template to get me going, studying it now. Readables - around 10%, betpet is going to help me fleshing them out, as Im not a native speaker. Good luck everyone.

Sounds great! I intend on putting up some of the stuff I found out during the course of making a mission, a lot of good info is getting "lost" in the middle of countless pages and comments inside the forums, some of it should really be up there for everyone to find quickly (and sometimes at all).

Nice work! Yeah, seeing something you just created is a nice feeling... Its also nice seeing something novel for the mod (I quite like the texture!), Im sure your going to come up with some more cool materials in no time. And please, more grungy materials for sure, ease the pain of your fellow modder, noone wants to be putting decals over every single surface, specially in complicated buildings hehe.

I sense a lot of antibodies here to this intiative and I understand them completely, its actually nice to see many defending the intellectual product of a mission author, regardless of the person or supposed quality of it (I made sure to writte Shadowhide a PM praising his work). But on the other hand, besides having a say about what you would rather see Bikerdude focusing his attention on, I cant see whats wrong here? He has already stated that he had complete permission by the original author to expand on it, his reasons for doing it are his own (wether its because it isnt a good mission in his eyes or because he sees a different potential for it), and we still have the first and second version to play just in case we want to see the original work. As long as this mission doesnt state in the title "Play this one, the other versions suck, this is the definitive version, etc" or some other demeaning statement, all we'll get is another mission to play? EDIT: Just saw Springheel's answer, a bit surprised because I distinctly remember seeing mentions of contributors to both missions... But oh well. The point can still remain, I guess.

Yes, what I was going to say - I think the "one man team" phillosophy supposes that you have mastered (as is Sotha's case) all the major aspects of TDM creation (spatial creativity, architecture, AI behaviour, special effects, triggered events, etc). There are even others that one might not have mastered, which will effectively steer what you think you can or cannot do - things like specific animations (in this case, Springheel would be able to do it too), special textures, unique models, some kind of highly complex scripted event (which Grayman could pull off), its a big list... The point is, its very beneficial to have a team where each will focuse on his/hers strengths and interests. And thats as simple as that, when you are working inside a creative team, like I do professionaly, its mostly about respecting each one's side in the contribution - supposing I had another complementary talent, I wouldnt mind at all having Melan or Bikerdude taking care of the world creation, simply because I know that wether they make something exactly how I imagined it or not, its still going to be a worthy solution and I'd have my own department to have fun with. Most of the best missions I played so far were made by teams, and it shows, missions like Heart of Lone Salvation or NHAT probably got to such high levels because people could focuse their talents on a single subject/trying to achieve specific, sophisticated goals, instead of spreading attention all over. I for one find myself spending half my time reading documents instead of mapping, because as everyone knows each small topic is a science in itself (AI, spawnargs, how triggers work, how to handle patches, adding sounds and fading lights by room, etc). Of course its a learning experience, so you have to go through that in order to do anything half seriously, but it is bound to turn people off, specially because each topic could really use a lot of your dedication to master. Thats why in see on any mod site people who call themselves "modelers" or "2d artists" or "coders", and you wont see "general knowledge game designer"... So yeah, I'm all up for more teams in the community (like the on going campaign).

That would be pretty awesome... Looking foward to that!

Absolutely! And ive been adjusting the moonlight all the time, i think im close now.

Strange, I can see them clearly, but its true that I scarcely editted them (only a bit more brightness), like my previous image posted a bunch of weeks ago, it was more about keeping it as close as possible to what you actually see in game, they are not presentational images. But thanks guys - like Sotha said, I'm trying to go for coherence here, the spaces will be sober and hopefully feel used. Thats not to say there wont be any surprises. There'll also be more than one way of overcoming each map "section", but I wont get into that. This is a lot more work than previously planned...

I cant post any of the "juicy" pics, but also to break the silence on the beginners contest a bit, I guess I should post a couple of images of some of the finished areas - I would say I still have a fair amount of work to do, there's an important area being built and theres going to be some complex (for me at least) pathing in there, but Im optmistic to be able to finish the mission without too much in the way of compromise...

Appreciate you taking the time and for the useful information, sorry if I sound like a broken record too, but the point here is just to post the models and make them available, like I said I will be working on them, but my free time is pretty tight and I would rather learn one thing at a time (for the record, I do know how to UV objects (in Modo and Blender, havent tried Hexagon yet), and I can still see some value in doing just that, rather than doing all the work). The problem seems to be that there are very few modellers around here right now, so few opportunities for starting a kind of model marketplace, but that might change in the future. If it doesnt, worry not, texturing these, and any other I may come up with in the meantime, will be the next step. I did enjoy the criticism very much, and now it would be simple to come back and replace the top ring for more polygons for example (was trying to keep it fairly simple because its mostly supposed to be covered by a pan or pot), and no the legs are not clones, just copies, and believe me, if I had to learn all that stuff you mentioned before modelling this simple thing, I wouldnt be here right now, I guess its good to take the longest road when you are starting, better for learning (and I also enjoy adding little, unnoticeable differences on the objects, instead of the old symmetry, it just makes the object "feel" more authentic, even though you cant say why - on the olive press the wheels all have different widths, and the metal rings that keep them from disconnecting from the wood axis are all different details - sure its more work, but they are fairly simple shapes themselves, not even I would be stupid enough to do that for complex forms like gothic windows and the like). Anyway, thanks for the pointers, will keep them in mind.

Was also able to finish a simple one today, an iron pan holder/support for fireplaces, around knee height size. Its in centimeters, in separated pieces. Fireplace support 01 model: http://www.sendspace.com/file/48m189 (Based on a small object on the corner of a photo)

Well, still a looong way/time to get there (texture work), I will try building on my modeling skills first, but yes, I will eventually finish it up if nobody picks it up. Its a community though, thats why I'll probably post my WIPs in case someone is interested in taking it from there.