simplen00b

Something I've been meaning to ask about Leofrick:

Looks amazing! Judging by the building on the left, it's at least one storey high, right?

OK, now finished playing hardcore (for the third time): In general, the objectives all unfolded pretty logically for me - I think I may have found Syke's HQ before Gridley's but I couldn't see Gridley hanging around so many thugs so I kept hunting for Galloway Road. Even found the attic-switch pretty easily, but I think it was more by luck than skill, and have worked out how to trigger the trap without getting hit. The only glitch I sometimes get is with the chain dangling near the upper balcony inside Sykes' HQ: Sykes' "special room" is really very nasty - definitely not suitable for children. You've created quite a memorable baddie for a small/medium mission - I usually try to adopt a 'no-kill' policy in my gameplay (I never really like 'forced-kill' objectives), but he's one of the few FM characters I'd be happy to top. Maybe in the future... Really like the final section Got busted and ended up doing a reload that took me all the way back to Syke's HQ, which is an indication of how immersed I had got (I usually quicksave every 30 seconds). And I've still got 85 loot to find. Oh, and final comment on the skybox-climbing thing: on reflection, I think I treat that as a separate 'game' in itself to the actual mission. I usually indulge in that kind of exploration when I've knocked everyone out and completed most of the objectives - I just got into it first off in this FM cos I saw that flag pole sticking out the wall, thought "Thank you very much" and was up at the skybox within about 30 seconds of mission start . But I can't combine the two - I did try and it just felt wrong. Really glad when I have the chance to play both though! So, again, excellent FM - great layout and architecture, good story, memorable characters, and you've hit one of the best levels of challenging-but-not-frustrating gameplay so far, IMHO. Many thanks.

Some random thoughts/observations: 1. Could be wrong, but I think Siyah and I are in a very small minority of TDM players who like to do this sort of 'close to the edge' exploration. 2. Climbing & jumping is one of the most immersive aspects of TDM for me. I got lost in this FM for well over an hour just clambering around the roofs before I thought "Oh yeah - better start trying to fulfill the objectives I guess" . 3. My attitude to mappers that allow that kind of exploration (whether they intended to or not) is complete and utter gratitude. 4. The core essence of Thief/TDM is 'going somewhere you're not meant to go'. A few of us just like taking that concept and extending it to the game mechanics themselves, in a meta, er, contextual exploration of the very nature of, um, something. Whatever. Look, I just really enjoy it, OK? 5. I've always loved this picture: Can't really explain it - I just love that woozy, quite surreal feeling of the 'earth meeting the sky', and that's what I get from this kind of climbing in TDM. 6. I don't want to add to the already huge workload that mappers face, but if they wanted to leave little notes in areas that they think are inaccessible but may not be (sounds like it isn't easy to tell), that's fine. They could just say something like "Aren't you an old clever clogs then?" (or "Hi Siyah & simplen00b!" ). Unless it was a Sotha map, in which case I would expect a note saying "Curiosity killed the cat", triggering an army of undead to suddenly appear and start advancing across the rooftops toward me, hurling poison darts and fireballs as the entire map filled up with hydrochloric acid. 7. However (in all seriousness) I'm fine with things as they are, and grateful for the maps that get produced whether I can get close to the skybox in them or not. I would beseech mappers not to start smothering areas with playerclip, but end of the day, their map, not mine. 8. I'll try to get round to posting a review of 'Score to Settle' at some point in an effort to get the thread back on topic.

Yay! Someone else found the 'leap of faith' as well!* Sometimes I wonder if it's just me.Mind you, Siyah, you could have avoided all that initial unpleasantness with this: My video finishes around where yours starts, and I have to say, Siyah, brilliant jumping & climbing in yours. I got to the small courtyard but all I found to do then was get into that square this way: so I didn't find your way round onto Sykes' roof (that leap you do at 1.36 is genius). Which means that you could get (almost) from the mission starting point into Sykes' HQ without touching the ground. Brilliant FM, Springheel, definitely on my top 5, and I've only played on easy so far. *at 0.48 on the video

Well, we're fans of a game that can reward the player for looking into toilets . Is there any other game which does that?(Thinking about it, not sure I'd want to know if there was.) Edited to add quote

Wasn't really sure what to vote - my answer would be that I'd hope all three were climbable and would give them a go, but I don't get frustrated if they aren't - so I voted 'sometimes' as it seemed the least inaccurate answer. I do get frustrated by wooden structures that rope arrows just clatter off (pretty sure I've come across them but can't remember a specific FM); likewise broad, horizontal/gently-sloping pipes should always be climbable IMO, even if they don't go anywhere.

Always happy to oblige. You are NOT kidding. (Love it tho'.)

Played and finished this last night; AB FAB! Don't really have anything to add to the comments already made about gameplay; I only found about 1200 loot so I've still got some exploring to do. However, very pleased and grateful I was allowed to find a way to a 'Top of the world Ma' position (again) : - Love love love it. Thanks Melan, and thanks to the whole dev team. TDM is a great game, and this is a great mission.

Just gone back in on medium level, and quickly discovered that the had moved - brilliant! Already found one room I had missed before, and I had somehow completely missed the market square first time round; I think I can safely say that I absolutely definitely 100% shouldn't be up here: - I love this mission...

I was glad I bought (I was so intrigued to see it on the shopping list, I just had to have one), but also glad I found another one lying around. Woohoo! New challenge! - How Low Can You Go? ***cue facepalm/rolleyes-fest from direction of Finland***

Another great mission! And I think I'll enjoy replaying it even more now I know Having played nearly all of your FMs, Sotha (Mandrasola is the only one I haven't got round to yet), this has got to be my fave so far. Many thanks!

Riven. Had no problem with the slide-show gameplay, loved loved LOVED the atmosphere, especially the occasions when you'd see some signs of human(?) presence in the distance, but when you got there, there was no-one around; the feeling of being watched by an unknown (but not necessarily hostile) presence - in bright sunlight - is one of the most deliciously creepy-without-being-really-scarey experiences I've ever had in a video game. And then - **hangs head in despair** - it went into switching puzzle overdrive. I had gritted my teeth and managed to solve most of the puzzles up to a certain point, but I got to a stage where it felt like I was having to flick four or five switches about half-a-mile from each other to try to get something to happen and after about half-an-hour I packed it in (it was cheaper than hurling the computer through the window and healthier than having a brain aneurysm). Still kinda regret it 'cos that atmosphere was absolutely unique, and I may have another go at some point with a walkthrough. My bad etc, but I've never come across a 'fun switching puzzle'.

I assumed it was deliberate design, but if I've managed to find somewhere I shouldn't have gone in one of Sotha's maps, my levels of self-congratulatory smugness will reach new heights . Route was

Only been able to play it for about ten minutes so far, but it's already hitting my sweet spots - It's a busy weekend, but I hope I'll be able to give it some more time tomorrow

Thanks Sotha. I had done just about everything to that chair except (and then quickly confirmed that I'll get there eventually...

Either I'm missing something blatantly obvious or I've got a glitch; when I go to sell the book, all that happens is but I may have got that wrong. It's also possible I missed a relevant earlier post but I was trying to avoid getting any more spoilers than I've already got. Apologies for any noob mistake I may be making. Any suggestions?

@Diego Not me - I flail it around like a three-year-old with a bargepole . Interesting that 'Swing' has been mentioned, cos I've been thinking of that and "Illusionist's Tower" as puzzle maps that I struggled with and eventually gave up on. "Illusionist's Tower" I gave up on very quickly when it turned into a - sorry; can't abide 'em. Gave it about ten minutes and then went onto the next FM. I gave Swing much longer (it did involve jumping and climbing after all); I got to the top OK but after about an hour of trying to work out how to get back down without dying I gave up. It's possibly ironic this particular mission became my first-ever experience as a beta-tester, because I'm prepared to spend a lot of time working out climbing puzzles in TDM, whereas ghosting, for example, is something I almost never try to 'work out' (although that might be beginning to change ). (I was surprised and honoured RPG asked me to beta-test, BTW; I had just offered to check the readables .) So (if I am allowed to do any more beta-testing in the future), a general rule of thumb might be "If simplen00b finds your climbing/mantling puzzle a bit tricky, there's a good chance a lot of other players will want to punch you ". Because, frankly, if the game doesn't have a climbing/mantling challenge, I'll find one. (Warning: subtitle of this video clip is 'Me Showing Off'):- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRt0cK0-7Ws

For the smaller inn, I'd definitely recommend any other ghostaphobes to give it a go; I'll get back to you about the larger inn when I give it a go (later tonight hopefully) - have a suspicion it'll be a tad more tricky...

Confession: I don't find it boring to knock everyone out, as I'm always still slightly on edge wondering if I have got everyone. I only ghost if I'm forced to (and I don't usually enjoy it) - this part of your map was a good intro for a ghosting-phobe like me (if I can ghost it, I'd say probably anyone could ). @grayman: It's a good standard . May have seen it before but never noticed it - like the rusty iron handles on the gates of this map; suddenly started seeing them everywhere in other maps, but I don't think I've ever seen them so beautifully lit before.

OK, last post for the night - another clip showing my way of dealing with the priest and, more importantly, What Lies Beneath ; Note: it just goes up to getting one of the AI into the graveyard. What you do with him after that is up to you . Aside: I'd love to know if anyone managed to survive this section the first time they went there without having to do a fairly prompt reload. Sorry. It's late. Gonna crash now. EDIT: Forgot to put link to video in. Did say it was late .

Just gone back and started playing on hardest setting this time - went to the smaller inn first and and both guards wandered up to check me out but I still managed to evade them. Plus there was a lot more tension with the guard on patrol outside. No KO's so far, and no reloads (both of which are really, really unusual for me), but I'm now in the larger inn so we'll see how I get on . BTW - the rat movements are great! Is 'zip-along-really-fast-and-then-jump-up-and-down' a standard animation or did you program that yourself? (There are a lot of more recent FMs I haven't played yet, so I'm never really sure what's standard and what's individual to a particular FMA.) Love it either way .

Hoped it would help - might give players some idea of where the 'targets' need to be positioned in the screen (e.g. for the drainpipe, I need to aim quite high). Something else I do quite often is take a slight step away from a wall if I'm right next to it (you can just see it about 25 secs into the route #2 video) - don't honestly know if it really makes a difference, but I like to think it does. That's cool! Just gone back in to try it. I'd say the first two jumps are much easier, but I nearly always get some damage from the last jump. That first jump is great fun though, and I think it's great that even in that confined space, there are different routes across. Usually, I don't alert her - I jump in while she stands stirring the pot, then I shadow her out as she leaves. I was quite pleased the video did show her being alerted as it showed what you can do if that happens. (Is the stirring the animation you referred to, or there another one?) Could you maybe insert 'in the foreseeable future' after that? I hope you feel differently after having a rest from it, 'cos even the players who hated the climbing part of your map seemed to agree it's a really beautiful mission. (Maybe take it easier and avoid meeting a deadline next time... ) (BTW - in case anyone was wondering, the first video is garishly bright because I let Google 'correct the darkness'. I actually think it helps see what's happening (in the derelict building especially), but the Route #2 video is more indicative of my gameplay settings.)

For anyone who may be interested, I've uploaded a couple of video clips showing the two different routes to the churchyard from the courtyard: Route 1 (through the derelict building): Route 2 (through the couple's kitchen):

OK - next newbie questions (NB: not necessarily addressed to Springheel/dev team, but anyone who can point my noob brain in the right direction): 1. Doing a 'containing text: renderentity' search of the Doom3 folder brings up DOOM3.exe, DOOM3Ded.exe and loads of gamex86.dll files for each FM. Is it one of these files I need to hack, or something different? 2. What's the best utility to use to hack the file? I have Resource Hacker, but very little idea how to use it (I tried a test search for renderentity in DOOM3.exe, but it just kept saying 'could not be found in the resource section'). Would a hex editor be any use (I have HxD)? 3. Once I'm using the right utility, how do I then hack the renderEntity axis setting? Answer one noobie-q, get loads more in response. Sorry guys....