So, what are you working on right now?

[AluminumHaste]

It's unfortunately the same modem used in game when hanging in a weapon room AFAIK. Noticed it long ago but never said anything until now.

EDIT: And I just want to say if the sword was made this way on purpose supposedly being crappy and old, well that doesn't make much sense to me. We're talking about a thief who spends literally thousands of gold on rope arrows yet he can't find the gold for a decent sword?

[Sotha]

Actually, if you want to be really accurate, it was Sotha, Sneaksie and Badcogg who were arguing for it to be a prefab. All I said was that people shouldn't start uploading every model they make in DR just because they can--something I still stand by.

 

Huh? Must be some really old topic since I cannot remember taking part into such discussion. Someone here seems to have an eidetic memory.. Anyways: I always support more options for mappers. Sure, inferior models should not go into the mod, but such stuff could be additional stuff the mappers could download from somewhere and add to their maps.

 

I want you to take a good hard look at this model+texture and tell me everything is fine.

 

For me, everything is fine. The sword moves so fast in the game that all I see is a general pigsticker. Sure, in that screenshot, the shortsword looks rather inexpensive, compared to the pretty swords you posted. Like it is worn, but polished.

 

If you DO make a better one, which I do not oppose, just don't throw the old one in the trash bin. It might be used in a plot line, where the thief first gets a general shortsword and then later finds the jewel-encrusted-nifty-magical-constantine's-shortsword.... What a cliché... But more options are more options....

[AluminumHaste]

For me, everything is fine. The sword moves so fast in the game that all I see is a general pigsticker. Sure, in that screenshot, the shortsword looks rather inexpensive, compared to the pretty swords you posted. Like it is worn, but polished.

 

Well seeing how the whole point of this universe is that he is unlikely to use a sword ever, so the sword should be in good shape and blackjack should be falling apart. But it's the opposite so that argument doesn't hold a lot of weight for me lol. And really if nobody notices the sword because it's always moving so fast all they see is a stick, by all means, replace it with a stick and save on the poly budget lol.

And I've always been impressed with Oddity's work, but this sword has always bothered me.

[AluminumHaste]

Yes I'm being a retard right now, but bringing out the quality control argument while a core mod asset is lacklustre at best kinda bugs me. I'll be fine in a few days and I'll forget all about this.

[ungoliant]

Wait..... there's a sword in TDM?

[AluminumHaste]

Wait..... there's a sword in TDM?

 

LOL Ungoliant

[Diego]

I like the sword. I think it's meant to look like an old sword, all battered up. I base my guess on the fact that swords are easy to model and oDDity is a very good modeler. But deformed UVs also sounds like a good theory.

[Springheel]

Yes I'm being a retard right now, but bringing out the quality control argument while a core mod asset is lacklustre at best kinda bugs me.

 

I'm not sure I get what you're trying to say. You don't agree that the thief should have a beat-up sword, therefore we shouldn't have any quality control?

 

If we're going to criticize the models that don't look as good as Skyrim ones, we're going to have a long list.

[nbohr1more]

Hmm...

 

That UV \ Normal behavior might be a byproduct of your Drivers and the FOV in use?

 

Meaning, I don't recall seeing such an abberation when I've wielded the sword.

 

I'll check at home...

 

 

A better sword model? Sure, why not.

[AluminumHaste]

Don't have to go that far, just compare it to the other models in the game. The blackjack for instance which I actually took the time to take screenshots of to illustrate my point but fine ignore my post.

All I'm saying is that the sword model + normal map looks like crap compared to the other models in this game, ie the Blackjack. Use that Quality Control you were talking about. It doesn't look like a beat-up sword, it looks like the sword was made by a moron with no training that was discarded in an alley and our hero just happened to pick it up and said to himself; "Well I guess that will save me 50 Gold, now I can buy more water arrows".

 

And there's nothing wrong with a sword being well used and beaten up. But swords like that don't have malformed fullers, they have dings in the blade edge and scratches on it's surface. EDIT: Removed potentially insulting part.

[AluminumHaste]

Hmm...

 

That UV \ Normal behavior might be a byproduct of your Drivers and the FOV in use?

 

Meaning, I don't recall seeing such an abberation when I've wielded the sword.

 

I'll check at home...

 

 

A better sword model? Sure, why not.

 

Always the mediator <3

[AluminumHaste]

I just checked the textures in the game, it appears to be a malformed uv map or something because the diffuse/specular/normal map all have a straight fuller.

[Springheel]

All I'm saying is that the sword model + normal map looks like crap compared to the other models in this game, ie the Blackjack. Use that Quality Control you were talking about.

 

I take the quality of our art assets seriously, and have ever since I was elected to manage them in 2005. The number of hours I have spent fixing, updating, adding cms or shadowmeshes, or just generally improving existing models is more than I'd want to count.

 

I'm not going to argue that it's a perfect model, but that sword is used by the player and every sword-wielding guard in the game. It's one of the most commonly seen models we have, and during the seven years it has been in use, not a single person has felt compelled to complain about its quality until today.

 

For you to make the argument that allowing that model in the game somehow means we don't have the right to have standards of quality is not only ridiculous, but it's mildly insulting as well.

 

 

I'll be fine in a few days and I'll forget all about this.

 

Fair enough.

[AluminumHaste]

I'm not going to argue that it's a perfect model, but that sword is used by the player and every sword-wielding guard in the game. It's one of the most commonly seen models we have,

 

All the more reason to fix it....and I have not once said you shouldn't have standards of quality but that they should be applied fairly to all assets, and that sword, as pointed out, is a glaring example of one. I can't figure out why though that you keep writing it off as "No one has noticed therefore there is nothing wrong". No one has really complained about the Training Mission either but look what's happening on that front.

 

I do respect you very much and I think we should probably take this to another thread, we're derailing this one. I think we can be civil about this no problem, I just disagree with you on this point and I need to understand where you are coming from.

[nbohr1more]

Yes, something is indeed wrong here:

 

 

Perhaps this is still due to some rendering issue but it seems that even a worn-out sword wouldn't have that type of alignment issue. I don't recall noticing this before...

[nbohr1more]

Alright, the other side of sword has much better looking normals but the overall design clearly seems to be (intentionally) something that looks like it was quickly and roughly built and something that is weathered. This probably was done give the sword a more natural look so that the "too clean, too clinical" folks would not have another thing to complain about. It might be a good idea to make a more symmetrical (clean) version though...

[Sotha]

Well,

IF there truly is something technically wrong with the sword as per #2865, #2850 and AH's original comment AND

AH is willing to fix it AND

the changes can be implemented easily as per #2846 THEN

what is the argument for?

[Nosslak]

For example, the looking glass overlay is low res, and looks like crap.

I concur, it really do look like crap. I think it'd be a lot of work but if possible I'd like to see a spyglass similar to this:

http://youtu.be/JjHM1h1MXnI?t=1m27s

[AluminumHaste]

That would need new animations which is a lot of work as opposed to a new gui overlay which hopefully won't take very long.

[Baddcog]

The glass might be low res, but I like the dirtiness of it. Maybe we just need it to be higher res?

[RPGista]

Really liked that jewelery box and the key... Great work! We were in need of it as the current silver box one is quite simple. This reminds me of the fine wood one, which is very nice. I would suggest a couple of skin versions wearing shining velvet of a bunch of colors on the inside, like some of the chests? Or possibly, by changing some of the color values, a sober copper (like in the pictures):

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Hehe You give people a hand, they want an arm, thats the way she goes - Lovely work Baddcog, just saying a couple of variants could be cool, considering your are fiddling with the models already...

Edited February 21, 2012 by RPGista

[Baddcog]

MOAR? Jeeze! lol, no, skins are great for variety and I usually try to get around to them at some point but try to release stuff first them worry about adding to it.

I was actually working on blends at one point, these might not be included in 1.07 (hidden file if so) but they are on SVN and I need to get around to using some. Some don't work very well. But these would effect quite a few objects. The main point was trying to really nail down some good metal materials mod-wide which'll be a bit more work then just getting these skins in -place.

 

old pic (was probably in private forums before) (the silver is the jewel box tex, all the others blend other materials over it)

The trophy shows the new metal on left, old version on right)

[pusianka]

BANG. SPIN OFF.

 

http://www.gamefront.com/files/21355789/draft1.mp3/

 

What is in the file? Maybe it's a hidden virus? Maybe I tell you the true identity of Bourn? Maybe I'll uncover a mystery of egypt's pyramids?! No matter what contains the mp3 file, you are too temptetd not to download it! TOO TEMPTED NOT TO DOWNLOAD IT! YOU HAVE TO DOWNLOAD IT! YOU WANT IT SOO MUCH...

 

Edited February 22, 2012 by pusianka

[Tels]

Sorry for coming back late, I somehow lost track of that thread (and it now has grown a lot about sowrds and quality control which confuses me so I keep out

 

Prefab vs. model:

 

Actually, if you want to be really accurate, it was Sotha, Sneaksie and Badcogg who were arguing for it to be a prefab. All I said was that people shouldn't start uploading every model they make in DR just because they can--something I still stand by.

 

Fair enough, I will not hold you for things you didn't say Although I stand by my remarks that there are technical issues (a lot!) why one would choose a model or a prefab and these two can't just be interchanged. Not that it matters now.

 

Anyway, the "don't upload everything because you can" is actually a good guideline, but it is very vague, too. Plus, that still doesn't really make me go out and make models, because it leaves it hanging in the air that my model was (is whatever) not good enough - obviously, if it had made an "wow! holy crap" impact, I would have been begged to add it So it probably didn't pass the "fancy as Noslaks models" test

 

So I guess what I take away from this discussion is: make better stuff, or don't make it at all. And don't try to argue, either it is so good that it gets accepted, or it won't go in no matter what I say.

 

 

As there is an rather large number of open bugs I really should fix, I will for now opt for the latter. Won't spend time on modelling when there are thing I can do better. (I don't see us getting any more manpower in the code departmant, which is very sad

 

Huh? Must be some really old topic since I cannot remember taking part into such discussion. Someone here seems to have an eidetic memory.. Anyways: I always support more options for mappers. Sure, inferior models should not go into the mod, but such stuff could be additional stuff the mappers could download from somewhere and add to their maps.

 

Sotha: The "external repository" idea has been floated and tried quite a few times and it still hasn't happened. I guess nobody wants to spent 100+ hours putting up and maintaining the repository, when all they want is to add their 5+ hour work of a specific model to TDM. So while I am not opossed to that idea, we have to face it: Nobody has the resources and energy for it. Plus I don't see mappers downloading individual models etc, when building maps is already complicated. (And then there is the whole issue of "50 maps now include the huge model of blahfoobargel, why isn't it in the main mod so players don't have 50 copies of it on their HD" etc).

 

So it is either our main SVN, or the work will go nowhere. (That doesn't mean we should add anything as Spring rightly said! A certain minimum quality should be there. )

[Tels]

Wait..... there's a sword in TDM?

 

LOL. Next you are telling me we have mines!

 

(I found it funny that f.i. Fen remarked "Shortsword, so there are multiple sizes of it?" I am not sure if he meant it or it was a joke, but I could understand that this question pops into the head of someone not familiar with TDM or Thief.