So, what are you working on right now?

[Goldwell]

Looks promising! Don't stop until you're satisfied, and it'll look just as good as anything else you've seen:)

 

Thanks Kvorning, I have to say mapping though is such an intensive process. I have so much respect for anyone who maps after taking this task on. I have never done any mapping in the past so this was the first time for me but thanks to the helpful people here and all the great tutorials on the wiki page I have managed to get by.

 

The thing that is the most unexpected surprise about mapping is that you can spend hours and hours and hours on something really simple. So many different ways to build something, texturize, tweak it and then try to fit it together with everything else on the map/room... ha it drives you almost insane.

[Kvorning]

Yeah there's one hell of a learning curve when playing with a tool such as Dark Radiant. The best advice I can give you is, make something just big enough to contain what you want on the map. Then improve until you got it looking and working as good as you want it to. When you then feel like making the map bigger, you'll be able to do it a lot quicker with less need for repetitive corrections.

 

I wish I had done that

[Goldwell]

Yeah there's one hell of a learning curve when playing with a tool such as Dark Radiant. The best advice I can give you is, make something just big enough to contain what you want on the map. Then improve until you got it looking and working as good as you want it to. When you then feel like making the map bigger, you'll be able to do it a lot quicker with less need for repetitive corrections.

 

I wish I had done that

 

Thank you for the advice! Infact I actually just changed a couple of things in the bedroom and already I think it looks much better. The last picture I just didn't like for whatever reason but yeah a few color changes and a light seem to make the world of difference.

 

EDIT: oops I forgot to add the bottom part under my arch thing updated the image now

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2013 by TylerVocal

[Kvorning]

It's crazy what a couple of tweaks can do indeed. Well done and keep it up!

[Sotha]

Looks good! I see great development from the shots you presented earlier. Especially you are now paying attention to texture scale. The scene looks much more realistic when the mapper is mindful about texture scaling.

 

I have only one suggestion: the walls would maybe need some detail. Wallpaper from top to floor level looks a bit unrealistic. Maybe some wood panellings to guide one's eye?

 

Even without any panels, there is always some kind of trim with wallpapers:

Look, near the floor. Also there is something else than the wallpaper just before the ceiling.

 

The thing that is the most unexpected surprise about mapping is that you can spend hours and hours and hours on something really simple. So many different ways to build something, texturize, tweak it and then try to fit it together with everything else on the map/room... ha it drives you almost insane.

 

Do not be discouraged! The thing you spend 1 hour today, you can accomplish in 10 minutes tomorrow. The simple geometry in Alchemist took ages to create. LQD scenes were done very quickly.

[Goldwell]

Looks good! I see great development from the shots you presented earlier. Especially you are now paying attention to texture scale. The scene looks much more realistic when the mapper is mindful about texture scaling.

 

I have only one suggestion: the walls would maybe need some detail. Wallpaper from top to floor level looks a bit unrealistic. Maybe some wood panellings to guide one's eye?

<snip>

 

Ok so I added the wood trimmings around the edges and also battled a lovely black wall for nearly 2 hours. But I think this room is about 99.9% complete!

 

 

 

[Lux]

I agree with you, Tyler. Its a big endeavor and the more you learn about DR the bigger it gets. The more you realize about DR: the readables, pathing, monsterclipping, skyboxes, etc. and making all the rooms seem like real rooms, the bigger the endeavor gets in your mind and it seems sometimes insurmountable. Its not though, it just takes patience and time. From the looks of it, you're getting there.

 

Heck I don't even have a single room done yet cause I'm still learning too. Its intimidating but just perservere and soon you'll have a playable map. That's what I keep telling myself anyway

 

You've done a great job taking this room from a decent, better than T2 quality room, with models and textures, to a lived in, well shadowed, immersive space. It looks great! Keep it up!

[Sotha]

Tyler, getting better. Next thing, I suppose, is to start thinking about gameplay and visual implications of light sources. The room is maybe a bit too dark. Maybe one more light source near the exit, or alternatively enlarge the ceiling light source radius. A good rule of the thumb for good lighting is as follows:

 

The light radius is slightly larger than the nearby walls.

 

It is not a magic bullet for all lighting conditions, but very good starting point for a single lightsource area. Make sure there are few big shadows to hide in: furniture or other geometry or light source positioning should generate some shadows to hide in. You could have a two-lightsource area, with two smaller lights.

 

Oh, and remember... Don't try to take too ambitious project as your first one. Remember to keep it small in your first map.

[Springheel]

Don't try to take too ambitious project as your first one. Remember to keep it small in your first map.

 

+1

 

Some of my favourite missions are very small.

[Moonbo]

Looks good Tyler! One thing I've noticed from perusing the forums is that a lot of starting mappers will come on with an *amazing* screenshot and then disappear from the face of the earth. I think they're suffering from exactly what you're describing, which is that after realizing that it takes them so long to make a single room, they just sort of give up. For me, it took about 2 weeks to create my first small building (two rooms, one on top of the other). After that though, it does start getting quicker when you begin to learn the hang of things.

 

What I would recommend is pick the level of detail that you're comfortable you can carry on through to the end of your mapping project. It may not be mind-blowing, but it's better to have a completed map than a few screenshots. And you can always go back and add more detail later if you feel like it.

 

My personal rule of thumb when it comes to detailing is to make sure that there's no large blank spaces (i.e. there's always something on the wall, ceiling, floor etc), and you're definitely @ that level w/ your screenshot. My only recommendation for the shot would be possibly to make the room more compact (there's a lot of empty space around the bed which is only going to be useful if there's an AI walking around to the various points of the room), BUT that's only a preference thing, it's fine the way it is :-).

Edited June 23, 2013 by Moonbo

[fllood]

I figured i should get my eyes back on the ball, and give you guys one last teaser of my map.

Nice choice of using Wardruna for the ambient music for the teaser Kvorning! Nice teaser as well!! ... Very looking forward to the final FM :-)

[Kvorning]

Thanks, though I do apologize for butchering a fine track with sloppy editing:) It's a fantastic album.

[Melan]

Oh, and remember... Don't try to take too ambitious project as your first one. Remember to keep it small in your first map.

Unless you absolutely must!

 

(I know, I know, giving you bad advice... but I am also guilty as charged.)

[Lux]

Ya get a picture in your head and what are you to do.....?

[Goldwell]

Well I notice a lot of people keep pushing the idea of keeping your first mission small. I mean in the end my first mission will probably be medium size because it fits the scope of my story better.. Or maybe my opinion of a medium map is your version of a short map (it's going to include the accountants house plus a little city around it which helps tell the story more). I have actually already completed the whole house of the accountant (this room included) and most of the rooms have a nice amount of detail and maybe require a little bit of tweaking.

 

My method is to draw out roughly on paper the layout of the place and then draw it out in DR and then go in and add basic details/feels for the rooms. Play it through a little bit and then add some filler stuff/tweaks/additional rooms/etc. It seems to have worked so far, as time goes on I find things happen faster as well. For example for whatever reason I could never wrap my head around vaults and bevels but now I can make them in no time flat and even started rounding some corners in my map to make it look nicer as well.

 

Even though these maps take a lot of time I don't really feel any sort of burn out, at all... maybe it's too early or maybe it wont happen but it's definitely my intention to stick around to provide more maps after this one is done as well as more vocals for others maps, because I find both tasks really fun, a great way to express creativity and I like the challenge

[demagogue]

The general way to size a mission is by the number of "rooms" it uses, which aren't all literally rooms but include room-like areas, and for the connecting hallways or streets you could either assume them in the count or guesstimate how many rooms they might add up to if they're elaborate... So a "small" FM would be like contest sized, which would be in the 10-20 room size. (Tiny would be <10.) Medium would be like 20-40 or 50 maybe. And anything over 50 rooms would be a big FM.

 

There are a lot of advantages to doing a small FM that people may not realize at first ... performance, motivation, less buggy & easier to test, easier to plan, etc... But I've always thought if a person has a very clear vision in their mind of exactly what they want, big or small, that's always the best since they always know exactly what to do next every step of the way.

[Obsttorte]

Even though these maps take a lot of time I don't really feel any sort of burn out, at all

wait a year

Well I notice a lot of people keep pushing the idea of keeping your first mission small.

This really depends on the amount of details you are going to add and on the setting choosen. Creating a mansion for example can be much more easier then creating a streets, a rooftop mission or caves.

And it's not that starting with a bigger map does mean you never get it ready. My first FM is also not small-sized. But if you can release a map after 1-2 months instead of six or so, you have much more motivation to continue on.

[Sotha]

Since the DR ase-exporter isn't working properly, my module building from a reference has been suspended.

 

In the mean time, I decided to pick up blender again and see if it could be used to make nice modules. In principle, in capable hands (I mean more capable than mine), one could create very pretty modules with the versatility of a modeling program. Because of the reusability of each piece, it might possibly even be worth the work in creating the structures in blender.

 

 

My problem is that I'm a blender n00b, so making this simple non-textured wall took like 100 x time I would need to make it in DR (with TEXTURES!). Still, it is probably useful to get into blender as well. Perhaps the preparation will speed up to acceptable level as my skill level improves, who knows? At any rate, it is fun to learn something different for a change.

[Bikerdude]

Since the DR ase-exporter isn't working properly, my module building from a reference has been suspended.

Works fine for me, drop me a PM with the FS of the item your trying to export.

[Sotha]

Discussion and piece over here:

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/13692-dr-ase-exporter-replaces-textures-randomly/page__view__findpost__p__314141

[Springheel]

You'll quickly be able to make things in Blender faster than DR, and with far greater precision. I've been eager to start doing the same kind of thing in Lightwave ever since watching your modular building posts. Someday after 2.0 is ready.....

[Obsttorte]

Works fine for me, drop me a PM with the FS of the item your trying to export.

Sotha is using the updated script which is NOT shipped with the new version of DR. Btw. the script doesn't run under Windows (at least for me, but don't ask me why). I changed it a while ago to implement some changes tels required. The solution of the random texture shift problem was an unwanted but welcome side-effect.

 

I changed a lot regarding the way the model is stored so I'll have to take a close look to see what's wrong.

[Sotha]

 

It is absolutely hideous... The stuff on nightmares...

 

But I made it with blender. And it contains two material textures in a single .ase. And I got it into DR and in game. And it seems to work. And it is ingame and exactly the size I wanted it to be.

 

Progress. Now I have re-learned something I knew how to do few years ago. (The workflow how to get blender created models into TDM.)

[simplen00b]

It is absolutely hideous... The stuff on nightmares...

...and three quazillion times better than anything I could do...I tried using Blender once and felt like I had been put in charge of a 747. I still wake up screaming. Well done though, and thanks for posting it - hopefully it'll be an inspiration to someone else to have a first attempt.

 

@demagogue & mission sizes - if/when I do make a mission (I'm trying, really I am), I'm probably going to go for a shameless rip-off sincere and heartfelt tribute and homage to 'Too Late'. Tiny (6-7 rooms?) but the gameplay (especially on Difficult level) is just brilliant - one mistake and you can be in a lot of trouble. If I can make something even approaching that I'll be happy.

[Arcturus]

Here's a random video I posted some time ago at TTLG:

 

 

It's a bit too sped up. Maybe you haven't seen it yet.