Undead, Zombies, Haunts

[HalfKaztBoy]

Just wondering what has happened to these creatures, are they going to be released in the dark mod? It would be nice to play some missions with these creatures included.

 

I miss them from thief 2

[Goldchocobo]

Just wondering what has happened to these creatures, are they going to be released in the dark mod? It would be nice to play some missions with these creatures included.

 

I miss them from thief 2

 

Well we have a delicious treat for you on the 1.1 release.

In fact, I personally have a pit of treats for you

[Neb]

I really can't wait.

 

I also hear a tonne of really creepy ambient tracks that are itching to be used.

 

 

[New Horizon]

Just wondering what has happened to these creatures, are they going to be released in the dark mod? It would be nice to play some missions with these creatures included.

 

I miss them from thief 2

 

1.0 was a beta, and as such didn't have everything that will eventually be available. Hang in there.

[Melan]

Undead, Zombies, Haunts and... Women!

[Goldchocobo]

Undead, Zombies, Haunts and... Women!

 

mmmmm.... haaaaunts....

 

ps: i hope someome got my drift there

[Chi Haotian]

And it would be best if those things moved and fought very differently from regular sword guards. They should not be just another brand of AI merely skinned as a haunt or other undead.

[Baddcog]

Yes they have their own animations.

[aidakeeley]

Speaking of which

Inventory Object: Flashbomb ... Flashbombs have no affect on the undead.

Haunts not harmed? 'Twere my only use for flashthings... I'll bet somewhere(s) there were a lot of conversations about this? Or maybe not? If so I'd like to read them if someone can point me to the discussions, please?

[HalfKaztBoy]

Undead, Zombies, Haunts and... Women!

 

Hehehe thats true, you don't see many women characters in game.

[Springheel]

Haunts not harmed? 'Twere my only use for flashthings...

 

Why would undead be harmed by a flash of light? Especially ones that don't even have eyes?

That never made much sense in the original games.

 

You've got fire arrows, holy water, and mines to deal with undead (or the sword, if it comes to that). That should be enough.

[New Horizon]

Why would undead be harmed by a flash of light?

 

Creatures of the night, that kind of thing. They can't survive in the daylight, so the flash bomb was like being exposed to the sun.

 

Evil thrives in dark places, and all that jazz.

[Springheel]

I know that was the justification in Thief, but it's pretty weak. Undead never seemed to have any problems with other sources of light in the game. Though it would be neat to have a type of undead that did react to light, and fled from it.

[aidakeeley]

Why would undead be harmed by a flash of light?

 

Because they are supposed to be? If you are seriously asking me for a logical reason why a menacing ghost-skeleton remnant from a sect of sledge-hammer wielding zealots in some quasi-medieval steampunk fantasy world is supposed to be harmed almost to double-death by a 'bomb' of light?... I can't say, for reals.

 

I think, though, that it has to do with wooden stakes and silver bullets and kryptonite.

 

I really don't care so much to argue about it; I was just hoping to see if there were some great threads wherein others argued it out.

 

I'm so enjoying the absolutely nutty hysterics some folks are sinking to about body-awareness/representation possibilities in T4!

 

god-damned holo-decks! harrumph!

Edited November 25, 2009 by aidakeeley

[Springheel]

Because they are supposed to be? If you are seriously asking me for a logical reason

 

Yes, it's a fantasy setting, but there still should be an internal sense of logic about it. Since undead don't breathe, you can predict that they won't be affected by poison gas or drowning, and people would rightly complain if we didn't take that into account. Likewise, since undead don't react to artificial light in any way, it's somewhat unreasonable to assume they would be hurt by a big flash of it.

 

I think, though, that it has to do with wooden stakes and silver bullets and kryptonite

 

You're right, if there was some mythological precedent then we would probably follow it, but I'm not familiar with any myths about undead being harmed by artificial light.

 

As with everything though, if a mapper wanted to adjust that specifically for their map, they certainly could.

[AlarusLOL]

 

As with everything though, if a mapper wanted to adjust that specifically for their map, they certainly could.

 

Can you give me an idea of what would have to be done in order to make this happen? And, if it were done, would it look anything like the original games (i.e., zombie makes the appropriate sound and animation when hit, and could there be a puff of "smoke" or whatever it is when it hits)?

[Chi Haotian]

Not to mention this adds functionality to a tool (flashbomb). Some later tools (such as a scouting orb, a flare) would seem practically useless as they could only be used in a narrow scope of circumstances. Having a tool do several useful things is good gameplay-wise.

[AlarusLOL]

I'm actually a little surprised flashbombs hurting undead didn't make it in. I wouldn't have thought it would be a point of contention. But, that's up to the mod team.

 

Count me among those who pretty much only use them against undead.

[aidakeeley]

I wouldn't have thought it would be a point of contention.

 

[Loopy]

yep, i always hold on to flashbombs for zombies/haunts,

and i almost always drop scouting orbs, flares, speed potions and breath potions to free up my inventory.

 

what if there were 'holy flashbombs' that were filled with the Glorious Light of the Divine Creator?

then they could affect both living and dead creatures.

[Springheel]

Not to mention this adds functionality to a tool (flashbomb).

 

That's true. But there is already an undead-specific tool (holy water). As well as mines, fire arrows, and the sword (to some degree). That seems like plenty of different tools for attacking undead.

 

In gameplay terms, why would I bother to buy holy water if flashbombs can kill undead as well? Holy water can only be used if you have water arrows, and for a limited amount of time. Flashbombs can be used at any time and don't consume any other resource. Holy water has no use other than hurting undead; flashbombs are also effective against all other forms of AI. And unlike fire arrows, flashbombs have no noise penalty.

 

So there were both "logical" and gameplay reasons not to go that route. The only reason to do it was because "Thief did it that way", and that wasn't always a good enough reason.

[New Horizon]

Undead never seemed to have any problems with other sources of light in the game.

 

Yes, but the other sources of light weren't bright enough to blind AI or the player though. The flashbomb is like looking into the sun or something, quite blinding, and probably packs an intense punch in one shot.

[SiyahParsomen]

you know vampires are undead, and they are also vulnerable to light. If you ask me why they can't resist to sunlight, I'll ask you is there a vampire? no. In fact the reason is an illness, porphyria. Anyway, strong light burns undeads. that's all

[Chi Haotian]

In gameplay terms, why would I bother to buy holy water if flashbombs can kill undead as well? Holy water can only be used if you have water arrows, and for a limited amount of time. Flashbombs can be used at any time and don't consume any other resource.

Flashbombs can be used as a last resort, when you're out of holy water. And they were much less effective, iirc -- to destroy a zombie, you had to throw three or four of them right at his feet. Perhaps, as a balance, they can be made even less effective on the undead in TDM, but effective still, combined with some degree of the standard blinding effect. (Such a thing does exist in classic horror fiction that increasing the amount of even artificial light repels or thwarts undead and whatnot. E.g. in 'Dracula.')

[Springheel]

you know vampires are undead, and they are also vulnerable to light.

 

Sunlight. Not artificial light.

 

Obviously, "because Thief did it that way" is reason enough for some people.