Jump to content
The Dark Mod Forums

Freeroam


Kingo64

  

23 members have voted

  1. 1. Is it a good idea or not?

    • Yes
      6
    • No
      17


Recommended Posts

The extra 2000 entities were probably ones spawned at runtime. Attached entities that aren't placed directly, projectiles, etc. How many entities you can place in DarkRadiant and get a successfully running map will vary depending on how many entities are spawned at runtime (which is different for each map depending on what it contains).

My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cool :). Just a night out on the town, right? So that's how Gar...field spends his time between missions ^_^.

So that's why he can eat so much! Figures. -_-

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The extra 2000 entities were probably ones spawned at runtime. Attached entities that aren't placed directly, projectiles, etc. How many entities you can place in DarkRadiant and get a successfully running map will vary depending on how many entities are spawned at runtime (which is different for each map depending on what it contains).

 

Exactly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

About the main argument of the thread, I actually liked the City in TDS in the beginning. But after a while it becomes only a tedious menu: something to run through in order to go in the real mission.

So as many other said I think it is not a good idea, at least it is not as TDS did: overall I found stupid the continuous fight between factions, the city was not a dark gloomy place it was a battle field; with a such number of deaths per day the Hammerites would disappear in few weeks!

 

Moreover I also never understand why everyone attacks you on sight (in the City I mean) I am just a bystrander! You can (and should) attack me if I picklock something or even if I have a weapon drawn; but attacking without reason sounds strange.

 

As I mentioned it could be interesting to put a large map with many small sub-quest you can get or decline when you go in some places.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While it would be quite interesting to have an Asscreed-like, professionally crafted, sandboxy city in Thiaf: Resurrection with loads of open windows and chimney's (I am the Anti-Clause, ho ho ho!) I don't think that mission hubs are a good idea gameplay wise except for a game with gameplay similar to metroid's, where you need to get certain items to jump higher, walk on water etc.pp. I liked the Deus-Ex city hubs, though.

Edited by lostbuthappy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This brings me on the question:

Is it possible to raise the entities limit or do you need access to the Doom3 source? :)

 

I'm pretty sure we already raised the limit. I think the default doom 3 limit was 4096, so we doubled it....at least I remember reading somewhere that we did that. If we hadn't raised it, Dram wouldn't have been able to create his behemoth of a mission. lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The original point of hubs like in the game hexen was to go to other areas and open up either other areas or area's in the main hub, so your main hub would start off small, you go to another map kill a boss off, ring a bell and the door to the chapel in the main hub would then open, then your main hub would have a new area to explore. I think the point of hubs seamed to get lost somewhere along the way. Once all the areas in the hub and the maps connected to the hub got opened, except for the secret ones, the main hub boss would spawn on killing him/her/it you would then move to the next chapter of the game that was a new hub system.

 

Doom3 doesn't use a hub system its a linear map, there are several versions of the same map so that when you go to a new map then back you're actually going to the second version of the map.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just wanted to add my two cents:

I think free roam is just a way for developers/mapper to be lazy. I think if they want you to feel like part of a city they should have that part of the city hooked onto the start of the mission, this way it's not the same old boring crap over and over like in T3. For example why are there always arrows in the same spots and why does that idiot keep putting his payment of gold in the same sewer drain if it goes missing every time. Instead think T1 and T2 cities. They were built in when necessary rather than a way to drag out gameplay and they left the player able to explore a cool new area rather than 1/4 of a new area then wait to explore the other 1/4 and so on.

 

The only possible benefit I could see would be the thief's home which is the only part about it I liked in T3. This could easily just be a transmission map though which you leave the door to start the next mission giving you the chance to goof around with your items recently acquired from the last mission.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So lets see if I can summarize the common idea; in general we dislike the idea of freeroaming like Thief 3, but it might work if the city seems living somewhat.

 

It can be done `statically:' in every day there is something different. For example in day 1 you can enter in a jewelry using the wheel watered passage and in the day 2 the passage is closed with a grate. People might speak about what happened the night before (your mission in general) and so go on.

 

But it would be even better if it would be dynamical: the day after you robbed the jewelry the passage will be closed. People will talk differently if you had 0ko and 0kills or if you killed someone. So it is not just about a living city, but you can influence it.

 

So... Did I summarize well this thread until now?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So lets see if I can summarize the common idea; in general we dislike the idea of freeroaming like Thief 3, but it might work if the city seems living somewhat.

 

I don't think that's the biggest problem. What makes free roam in TDS bad is the repetition, because you have to walk the same places over and over again. Of course, making the city 20 times bigger could address that problem, but the complications in this scenario are obvious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think that's the biggest problem. What makes free roam in TDS bad is the repetition, because you have to walk the same places over and over again.

 

Yup, that's part of it...and another is that it removes the mystery of the city.

 

As mentioned earlier, many missions in the original games would include snippets of the city in their maps, leading up to the main part of the mission. This is just one of the many things that made Thief great, and the city so mysterious. You were always left to wonder, how far does this city go on...what's around that turn, or behind that locked gate...or that high wall?

 

So the TDS devs thought, well hey...how great would it be to actually roam around in the city between missions...lets make the city something concrete. Well, it can't live up to our imaginations. Part of designing a great game, is knowing when to actually stop designing and let the player fill in the gaps. That's why we all have different expectations of what the city should have been. I hated the TDS city, it was a huge let down...compared to the huge sections we saw in Thief 1/2. I had no idea how those pieces in Thief 1/2 connected, but I didn't care...because in my mind it made the city feel so much more expansive.

 

That's my problem with a free roaming city. I don't want the city defined and locked down for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd rather like a nice campaign or little story instead of free roam. The running around before the next mission in the same places wasn't such a good idea in my opinion. If there's a good storyline I don't need free roam, if not I don't need either :P

"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What about fake free roam, where the missions are spread out over a city map, the thief starts his mission in his residence, then the mission opens only those parts to the city where the mission is taking place, the journey there, the place to rob/investigate, the journey back.

 

Say you have a city area it has a castle, residental buildings, a hidden crypt, on the castle mission only the castle is available, on the mission where the map is being used as a map to get somewhere else the only the residental buildings are available, on the hidden crypt mission only the hidden crypt buildings are available, You actually use 3 maps to cover these areas, but everytime the player visits the area they get access to different areas of the map. Although you dont tell the player they're actually getting 3 maps, they'll just think the doors have been made active/disactive in different areas for that map.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What about fake free roam, where the missions are spread out over a city map...

 

Still, it's the same issue whether you lock parts of it or not. The player is still presented with the same section of city to get to the next mission.

 

The mystery of the city is in what you don't see. The less you see of the actual city they better. Sure, have a section in individual maps that lead you to your objective, but don't give away any more than you need to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recent Status Updates

    • Ansome

      Finally got my PC back from the shop after my SSD got corrupted a week ago and damaged my motherboard. Scary stuff, but thank goodness it happened right after two months of FM development instead of wiping all my work before I could release it. New SSD, repaired Motherboard and BIOS, and we're ready to start working on my second FM with some added version control in the cloud just to be safe!
      · 0 replies
    • Petike the Taffer  »  DeTeEff

      I've updated the articles for your FMs and your author category at the wiki. Your newer nickname (DeTeEff) now comes first, and the one in parentheses is your older nickname (Fieldmedic). Just to avoid confusing people who played your FMs years ago and remember your older nickname. I've added a wiki article for your latest FM, Who Watches the Watcher?, as part of my current updating efforts. Unless I overlooked something, you have five different FMs so far.
      · 0 replies
    • Petike the Taffer

      I've finally managed to log in to The Dark Mod Wiki. I'm back in the saddle and before the holidays start in full, I'll be adding a few new FM articles and doing other updates. Written in Stone is already done.
      · 4 replies
    • nbohr1more

      TDM 15th Anniversary Contest is now active! Please declare your participation: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22413-the-dark-mod-15th-anniversary-contest-entry-thread/
       
      · 0 replies
    • JackFarmer

      @TheUnbeholden
      You cannot receive PMs. Could you please be so kind and check your mailbox if it is full (or maybe you switched off the function)?
      · 1 reply
×
×
  • Create New...