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The Dark Mod - System Shock Edition


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I'm sure it would - and if you can muster together a solid team Im sure good things could come out of sharing documentation and such.

 

Now, finding a team is a different story, but I'm sure if you mocked up a few screenshots or something that you could generate quite a lot of interest!

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Well, if it works for The Dark Mod, it should be possible to make a toolset for creating System Shock missions without infringing copyright. No?????

A spiritual successor, yes. System Shock, no.

 

And before you start, just ask someone from the TDM team how much work it is.

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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Well, if it works for The Dark Mod, it should be possible to make a toolset for creating System Shock missions without infringing copyright. No?????

 

We've had the good grace to have been left alone by Eidos Interactive. Electronic Arts owns the copyright to SS2 though, so there is no guarantee that they would ever be as kind to you as Eidos was to us. Considering they shut Saphire Scar down, I don't think the odds are good.

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EA sent me cease and desist letters for releasing some .def files for UO that allowed older clients to see new items using the old graphics, evidently that is somehow bad, I told them that sadly its impossible for them to own the numbers that identify items in the packets, they then got bored of going after me and spammed my host with takedown and DMCA notices, which while they couldnt really do anything eventually became annoying and resulted in the files just floating around random mirrors. They certainly do like to completely control any of their IP related things.

 

Best of luck with that department :/

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Considering they shut Saphire Scar down

 

They didn't shut them down, they just forced them to rename themselves, IIRC. Originally they were called, System Shock Rebooted, or something, which did get them into trouble. But then they switched to being a "spiritual successor", renamed, and continued work. They just didn't get far before collapsing, like most mod efforts.

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We've had the good grace to have been left alone by Eidos Interactive.

I strongly disagree. We're not surviving just by grace of Eidos and we're not just "lucky" - we haven't done anything illegal, as far as I'm aware, so I don't think there is anything we need to be afraid of.

 

But we've had that discussion multiple times already, I'm aware.

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They didn't shut them down, they just forced them to rename themselves, IIRC. Originally they were called, System Shock Rebooted, or something, which did get them into trouble. But then they switched to being a "spiritual successor", renamed, and continued work. They just didn't get far before collapsing, like most mod efforts.

 

Absolutely correct. I recall seeing this on planetdoom.com when it happened long ago.

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They didn't shut them down, they just forced them to rename themselves, IIRC. Originally they were called, System Shock Rebooted, or something, which did get them into trouble. But then they switched to being a "spiritual successor", renamed, and continued work. They just didn't get far before collapsing, like most mod efforts.

 

Ahhh, ok. I thought they had gotten more flack from EA, and that's why the mod died.

 

I strongly disagree. We're not surviving just by grace of Eidos and we're not just "lucky" - we haven't done anything illegal, as far as I'm aware, so I don't think there is anything we need to be afraid of.

 

I suddenly feel like I've been scolded. You misinterpreted what I meant. I didn't say we were surviving by anyone's good graces, and I'm aware we've done nothing illegal. I was not implying 'blind luck' either.

 

I meant that through equal shares of common sense on our part and obviously some kind of trust on Eidos part, we were left to do as we pleased from beginning to end. You're free to disagree, but in the early stages of the Mod we really didn't know what was acceptable, and to an outsider looking in, the differences are not necessarily clear. At a glance, the mod looks like Thief. An outsider would need to do some research, and give the mod some consideration before deciding we were a threat or not. I firmly believe some of the more 'trigger happy' companies might have jumped on us earlier in development...simply because they would have 'assumed' we were doing something illegal.

 

Our 'word' was never brought into question.

 

I don't know if Eidos has gone after fan mods very often, but square Enix has, and they they own Eidos now. If I were to infer luck at all, it would only be to say that we were lucky Square Enix didn't buy Eidos 5 years ago. lol

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Pssst...

 

 

TDM is certainly under good graces... eg. your idea that not calling those fellows who walk around with giant hammers; worshiping The Builder; in cathedrals broken into by a shadow-skulking, blackjack-wielding archer-thief... is somehow mitigated by not calling them "Hammers'?

 

Wouldn't fly 2 feet if tested.

 

 

 

Sorry.

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"A Rhapsody Of Feigned And Ill-Invented Nonsense" - Thomas Aikenhead, On Theology, ca. 1696

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Not in a court where spending your opponent into bankruptcy is not an option - at least not any more than the creators of Doom could sue the creators of Unreal. Ideas and game rules can't be copyrighted, only specific artistic presentation can be. Patents and trademarks may complicate that a bit, but none of the ideas you mentioned would be accepted in court - provided the TDM team put up a defence, which modders, unaware of their rights and scared by nastygrams, often don't dare to do. IANAL, but this is my understanding of the issues, and the US Copyright Office seems to be in agreement (emphasis mine):

 

 

Copyright does not protect the idea for a game, its name or title, or the method or methods for playing it. Nor does copyright protect any idea, system, method, device, or trademark material involved in developing, merchandising, or playing a game. Once a game has been made public, nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles. Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author's expression in literary, artistic, or musical form. Material prepared in connection with a game may be subject to copyright if it contains a sufficient amount of literary or pictorial expression. For example, the text matter describing the rules of the game or the pictorial matter appearing on the gameboard or container may be registrable.
Edited by Melan
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Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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Pssst...

 

 

TDM is certainly under good graces... eg. your idea that not calling those fellows who walk around with giant hammers; worshiping The Builder; in cathedrals broken into by a shadow-skulking, blackjack-wielding archer-thief... is somehow mitigated by not calling them "Hammers'?

 

Wouldn't fly 2 feet if tested.

 

 

 

Sorry.

 

Doesn't matter. A 10 percent difference is all you need. It's a matter of technicalities. "Builder" vs "Hammer" is very different in terms of technicalities.

We've had many internal discussions about this, truuuuuuuust me.

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TDM is certainly under good graces... eg. your idea that not calling those fellows who walk around with giant hammers; worshiping The Builder; in cathedrals broken into by a shadow-skulking, blackjack-wielding archer-thief... is somehow mitigated by not calling them "Hammers'?

 

This has been covered ad nauseum, but companies cannot copyright those kinds of "ideas". Maybe TSR should sue Eidos, since they had hammer-wielding clerics and bow-wielding thieves long before Thief.

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They didn't shut them down, they just forced them to rename themselves, IIRC. Originally they were called, System Shock Rebooted, or something, which did get them into trouble. But then they switched to being a "spiritual successor", renamed, and continued work. They just didn't get far before collapsing, like most mod efforts.

I find the above extremely encouraging for Dark Mod, almost an endorsement of what we are doing.
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  • 3 weeks later...

Going back to the OP, I think you might want to recruit some people from some SS2 forums, like the SS2 sub-forum at TTLG or some other places to get a start, and from team-members of previous SS2 projects. It's a lot of work and you'll need a lot of help, so the first step might be just generating interest and getting people on board at are already hard-core SS2 people.

 

Dark Mod does have the advantage of having a lot of Doom3 assets already on hand.

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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