Community Requests

[Serpentine]

So - my exams are over and my map is on the backburner while I take care of my backlog of things to do... but the map is also maturing in my head so I think I will need some more things to do. I think we need a place for mappers to find interested content creators, also allowing the content to be added into the TDM core should it be seen as widely usable (i.e non-mission specific).

 

If you're working on an FM and need some texture help, models, skins, a tutorial to explain something, whatever really OR if you feel there are areas in TDM where there needs to be a wider variety of things.

 

Lets see if this goes anywhere...

[Fidcal]

Seems a good idea. If someone needs a special model or texture or script etc for their FM then maybe someone else likes modelling or texture making and would be glad to do it.

 

This might also link in with the contributions web pages being planned for fidcal.com or any other website. The idea is that if anyone makes such a model, texture, prefab, script anything as above that instead of just passing it to that one person - share it with everyone! From there it is immediately available to everyone and also from there can be funnelled into a future TDM update. (one caveat to that might be to withhold it until the FM is released if it is something very special or a spoiler but that's up to the individuals concerned.)

[Fidcal]

Add to the above, voice acting requests.

[Serpentine]

So, time for me to ask something, since I know a lot of the people around here actually play other doom3 mods etc, is there any one in particular that has a good 'ocean' material shader?

 

Not a nice calm lake or river/waterfall, I want like water under an oil rig, some stormy island type gloomy water. We dont really have an 'ocean' shader, just happy water ones, I tried making my own pretty complex one, but it doesnt look great and I was wondering if any other doom3 mods had one that I could take a look at (since reinventing the wheel didnt work very well for me )

[Fidcal]

This is an old screenshot of an experiment I was trying last year but exasperatingly I can't find my material def and I can't figure out exactly how I did it. I know it's a skin underlay just beneath the surface of probably the clear water texture. This is a static shot of course but it animated very nicely. Water can also be made to 'heave' up and down slightly to give an extra effect so this might be a half reasonable sea. If this is of any use I'll try again to see if I can recreate it.

 

[Fidcal]

I managed to figure out how I did it and did a quick test which looks promising. Is this of any use?

 

 

[Serpentine]

Yeah, thats the look im going for, I will try combine it all into a single material shader - I think it could get some quite nice results with exagerated normals (at least looking down onto)

 

But right now, my car window needs to be fixed (the joys of africa, immense.)

[Raen]

If you guys are taking ideas, I have one quick comment on the art side:

 

There's a huge variety of available models in DR (you guys did an awesome job creating the variety). The one area that seems generally lacking is architectural detail, particularly with respect to columns/arches/vaults. Any kind of thiefy church / crypt / gothic setting will need a lot more. Modular pieces would do just fine, though a few unique set pieces would be great in the long run. The Thief 3 hammer churches, for example, are just a couple of square (subtractive) brushes with about 80 - 85% of the detail coming from modular set pieces. A half a dozen columns / arches would go a really long way to making these types of environments possible. Some of this can be done through patch work, but the results will be much better with models for these kinds of details.

[Fidcal]

The main problem with model architecture is the difficulty of resizing them so one is forced to build to their size. For example, if you want to use a model pillar in a room then you have to make that room the same height as the pillar. I used some model windows in Chalice but had to use the hack to resize some of them then make them non-solid and put a solid brush inside then make them noshadows. Bit messy and some models you can't even do that because the specular or normal map goes wrong. I think these are probably best as brush/patch prefabs. Mappers can insert them just as easily as a model but can resize and retexture them.

[STiFU]

What? You can't resize meshes in Doom 3 either? I thought this was just an issue with T3ED?? What is it always with these collision hulls, that they aren't resized properly similar to the rest of the mesh? Or is it another issue here?

[SneaksieDave]

You can with the unsupported rotation hack, but it has some side effects (shadows and collision, IIRC).

[Raen]

The main problem with model architecture is the difficulty of resizing them so one is forced to build to their size. For example, if you want to use a model pillar in a room then you have to make that room the same height as the pillar. I used some model windows in Chalice but had to use the hack to resize some of them then make them non-solid and put a solid brush inside then make them noshadows. Bit messy and some models you can't even do that because the specular or normal map goes wrong. I think these are probably best as brush/patch prefabs. Mappers can insert them just as easily as a model but can resize and retexture them.

 

Yeah, this limitation is unfortunate, and it would be nice in the long run to get code support to allow uniform and non-uniform mesh scaling. However, brush / patch work will never be as detailed as a model. Custom meshes are best under ideal circumstances, but modular set pieces go a long way if used judiciously. Ideally, mappers should be using minimal brush detail and letting models / patches do the work. Trust me

[demagogue]

If mappers get familiar with external modeling (Blender, Lightwave, 3DMax, etc) then the situation isn't so bad ... you can resize and retexture and even tweak models that way, and it ends up being more powerful in the end. And it's not like modeling is so much more complicated than mapping generally; it's just getting familiar with it like anything else.

 

I think it'd be a good thing if mappers just took up the attitude right off that they can open something in Blender/Lightwave and play with it if they want, like many already do with PaintShop, I think... as just a normal part of the process.

[rich_is_bored]

I don't know if anyone has been following the Blender Foundation with their work on Sintel but over the weekend they put out a request for models from the community and the response has been ridiculous.

 

I mention this because the models are creative commons and would be right at home in a medieval setting. You can have a look here if you're interested...

 

http://www.blendswap.com/

[Fidcal]

Looks really good. Not immediately clear what rights they are shared under. Completely free? Different for everyone?

[Crispy]

Great site, thanks for posting it Rich!

 

http://www.blendswap.com/submit-blend/ says:

 

every file uploaded to blendswap.com is for personal and commercial use

The models uploaded to the "Durian" Category will be licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution "By" 3.0 License unless otherwise stipulated by you, the artist. [...] For the sake of clarity, please place licensing information in an open text window in your .blend.

 

So anything tagged "Durian" is under CC-BY 3.0 for (which is great), or personal and commercial use allowed under an unspecified licence (which is fine, if non-specific). Either way, there should be licencing info included in the file, so people can check when exporting them.

 

The quality, setting-appropriateness and completeness of these does vary a bit, as you'd expect (some are lacking textures, frex), but there are a ton of them (especially in the Durian category) and some definitely look usable.

 

A few standouts I found while browsing:

Primitive ladders: http://www.blendswap.com/durian/krizas_city_ladders/

Old kettle: http://www.blendswap.com/durian/kettle/

Broken bucket: http://www.blendswap.com/durian/melon_sintelbedroom_buckethardbrokentextured/

Drinking horns: http://www.blendswap.com/durian/drinking-horns/

Rotten apple: http://www.blendswap.com/durian/jfblend_trash_apple_disgusting/

Half-eaten leg of meat: http://www.blendswap.com/durian/chickenturkey-leg-bone-with-meet/

Dog skull: http://www.blendswap.com/animals/dog-skull/

Spiderweb: http://www.blendswap.com/animals/insects/spiderweb_90degrees/

Wooden bowl: http://www.blendswap.com/misc-objects/simple-wooden-bowl-with-nicks/

 

EDIT: Searchable asset list here, if you're looking for something specific: http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Org:Institute/Open_projects/Durian/Sprint/Assetlist

 

TLDR: Yes, we can use these.

[STiFU]

Didn't we still need pagan huts? That shaman hut looks pretty suitable!!

[Serpentine]

Yeah, that hut looks quite awesome, and its design means you could knock out a few similar versions to diffuse a little camp. If only I was not completely useless with modeling tools!

[Springheel]

Yes, I agree that Crispy's list looks pretty good, thought I suspect some of them are too high-poly for regular use. Hopefully someone with Blender can have a go at them.

 

Anyone know of a Lightwave site like that?

[Baddcog]

I agree with Spring. They all look very high poly, plus they have no shadow mesh, no collision... Probably only diffuse maps, so no normal or specular.

 

As usual with sites like that, general purpose models usually tend to be for rendering scenes, not in game. So performance has not been thought of and they need to be completely reworked to be good in game. In which case it's usually easier just to start from scratch.

 

That wood bowl alone probably has as many polys as an AI, and that's the most simple model.

[Fidcal]

Perhaps we should contact the website and ask if they would start a section for game-ready low poly models and offer to contribute many of our Dark Mod models. It's mostly a good policy to think of what you can give rather than what you can get especially when it doesn't cost us anything. If Blender files can include text then it can include links and info about Dark Mod too anyway. If there are lots of modellers making game models in isolation they might be encouraged to do likewise. The majority might not be suitable for our uses of course.

[Serpentine]

Before you go and take the long way home, taking the latest blender alpha (I have no idea how to use the normal blender), removing the bottles, beds and a few random rocks/dreamcatcher bits , leaving the structural stuff You can drop the triangle count from 40k to about 3k without tooooooooo much degredation. While the model might not look great in a movie I'm sure it would be acceptable for TDM use. Removing and what I guesstimate another 30 minutes of cleaning up things like the string loop holes (could be replaced with decals), I dont have the skills myself so this is all guestimation... maybe an hour to convert, touch up and prepare a quite complex model for use seems quite good. Things like the teapot etc could be done a lot faster, but it all falls down to if poly-reduction and TDM texture+lighting will make them fit in with the established look. I think its worth a try.

 

(also there are a few TDM models like the giant tree etc which are already around 4k tris, in comparison the hut seems a pretty good deal in its incomplete optimized state )

[Springheel]

(also there are a few TDM models like the giant tree etc which are already around 4k tris

 

What tree? Static models should generally not be more than 1000 tris, maybe more for some kind of special show piece like the St. Lucia statue. Even some of our AI are less than 4000.

 

I dont have the skills myself so this is all guestimation... maybe an hour to convert, touch up and prepare a quite complex model for use seems quite good.

 

I've gone that route before. It generally takes longer than an hour and isn't really much faster than working from scratch. I only find it useful if the textures are particularly good (and some of them look like they might be).

[Serpentine]

tree_old_01.lwo has 6020 polys

eoc_tree_001.ase has 4845

 

I was just using them as examples, since it would be unlikely that any map would have either those trees or that many huts spammed around in the same place

(and if they are, the mapper would be more aware that perhaps huts are more complex than those rather deceptive trees )

[ungoliant]

./revive_thread

 

So I've finally designed up to the top floor of my mansion, and i'm trying to roof it, but theres a total lack of what i'm looking for as far as roof or metal textures.

 

I forget what metal it is, but the one that starts to turn light green and runny over time. I want to make steep conical roofs for my 6-8 tower structures out of these, that connect with a player navigatable section in the middle of the mansion. So i'm looking for a kind of gross runny light green metal texture. Can anyone make this for me?

 

edit: also, a texture like this would be absolutely perfect for old statues

Edited March 15, 2010 by ungoliant