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Things that could be improved


Berny

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isn't it just easier to increase the time limit to one minute for example? I don't think this will be a slow down at all

 

It depends on how many arrows you + an enemy archer can fire in one minute :)

 

But I agree, increasing the timeouts somewhat would help. But it is not my decicion to make.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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Some one's always got to argue as The Voice Of Satan (faux awkward translation of the day) ... so I'll be the one here.

 

What? Why? No. I don't need more junk I can't frob sticking around distracting me. Thanks. Let the retrieveable arrows be the only ones that I can see. Thank you. As a matter of fact if you want to do something along these lines make it a bonus to killing/KOing an archer. Let me at all of his arrows, I earned 'em. Thanks. Broken arrows cluttering... What? Why? No. Thanks. No thanks. :P

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Some things that could be improved:

 

When guard sees player, he should "think" for 2-3 seconds before rushing with screams "take this!" :)

As a human he needs time to recognize who he just saw and is it intruder or not. And then yell "Alarm! Intruder!"

I don't know for sure, but is there any missions with neutral NPCs, or all NPCs are hostile to player? When not in restricted places, I think guards shouldn't attack you, but they do.

 

And maybe add a destructible crates and windows?

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When guard sees player, he should "think" for 2-3 seconds before rushing with screams "take this!" :)

As a human he needs time to recognize who he just saw and is it intruder or not.

 

Yes, reducing the "instant reaction time" of the AI is something we plan to do.

 

I don't know for sure, but is there any missions with neutral NPCs, or all NPCs are hostile to player?

 

Not all AI are hostile; it's up to the mapper to set it up the way they want it.

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I seem to run constantly in a minor cosmetic problem, which unfortunately always kills the immersion a bit.

 

When fighting AI in melee, the best moment to strike is often when the AI has just raised his own weapon to hit the player. When the AI is killed when his weapon is lifted, the AI ragdoll falls to the ground, but his weapon stays floating in the air. It floats until something collides into it and then the gravity affects it normally.

 

Could there be a possibility to enforce AI's item physics for a few seconds upon AI KO or death to make sure all items fall down as they should?

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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I haven't followed this thread, so pardon me if anything stated here has already been mentioned before :)

 

On some maps with more manipulable objects, it is easy to trap the AI by blocking their routes with larger objects such as barrels and haystacks. Perhaps the AI can "bypass" this by having objects thrown/moved out of their path when the AI comes into contact with them?

 

I'm also sure this has been mentioned before, especially in arguments on leaning forward + blackjacking enemies like in T1/2, but it's also quite difficult to register a proper blackjack hit on an enemy. I haven't been blackjacking them enough to determine where their "hitboxes" are, but it definitely feels a lot less intuitive than in the first two Thief games (and Deadly Shadows too I think). I mostly ghost in TDM.

Edited by bad marine ass
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I suppose you could cut down on bowman arrow entities by restricting there quivers to 12 arrows, after that limit reached they would throw rocks at you, not actually sure you can get more that 12 arrows into a quiver, maybe they could go off and refill there quivers.

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Not an improvement wish:

 

 

 

 

I'd like to see old maps with a new story and about 20-40% new areas, that should not need too much time (instead for one complete new map) and it would be cool to see again some areas and explore new ones ,) ;)

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Stand further back when blackjacking in TDM and you should have more success.

 

Is there any way to edit the game with some easy console command, or edit to the shortcut, or some file, to allow easy blackjacking? Cause I'm getting way to frustrated with my 5th failed blackjack on the SAME guard.

 

I really don't understand why its been made so difficult in TDM, and to make matters worse in the tutorial mission blackjacking was not covered, for something that actually requires instructions the tutorial mission skips it, but to be honest I think blackjacking shouldn't need any tutorial, it should be easy, merely go up behind a guy and let loose the blackjack, anywhere behind the guard should knock him out...

 

At the moment its just hard, and doesn't add anything to the game except unnecessary tedium. I know you guys where looking for a realisitic approach but thats not what we've been given. Surely it shouldn't matter what part of the guards neck, or back we hit... considering theres no crosshair we can't really gauge that... and surely it should matter how close we stand to them...

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How long have you been playing TDM? Coming into TDM with the expectation that blackjacking behaves the same way will lead to frustration, for sure.

 

I'm not sure why, but some people seem to have a lot of difficulty with it...while others don't.

 

Since the first release the black jacking has been tweaked considerably.

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There is a blackjack trainer you can download if you want to practice.

 

Make sure the guard isn't wearing an elite helmet--you can't KO them.

 

If he has a regular helmet you have to hit him from behind, not the side.

 

If he has no helmet, it should be relatively easy. Just don't get so close that you bump into him.

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So my improvement suggestion is

 

either

A. Remove Requirement to aim at the base of the neck (on helmeted guards).

B. Add small crosshair for blackjack.

C. Add a option in the game settings for easy blackjacking.

D. Add a visual cue animation to tell your strike will succeed. Like Sopha discussed.

 

Of course you could implement both option B and C, so that you can actually aim with the blackjack in regular TDM, while giving the option to others who don't want to bother with that.

Edited by TheUnbeholden
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In the Thread "Add-On: Black Light" there is a discussion about a dark/smoke bomb

 

I was hoping for the fabled dark bomb - a reverse of the flash bomb so the player can create a dark area for 20 seconds to get through a difficult area with no alerts.

 

How about a smoke bomb instead of a dark bomb?It could be an alert modifier, level 6? I think is the highest, it could be a flat level 5 modifier, alerting anyone below level 5 that some shenanigans are going on, while taking a level 6 active pursuer to level 5 due to losing line of sight on the player?

 

I like the idea - it sounds very cool - And all the players could use it (Not only the easy players - like mines and fire arrows. on hard on most of the maps you are not allowed to kill anybody)

Edited by Berny
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  • 2 weeks later...

One thing I sometimes end up wishing TDM had was a way to put any reasonably small item in your inventory.

 

I think it would open up some interesting possibilities if players could choose to put reasonably small items in their inventory whether the FM author intended them to or not.

However, even more importantly than the above, I think it would present an opportunity to make the behavior of various items more consistent.

 

Right now a lot of very similar items act very differently when frobbed. Books and notes in particular are rather inconsistent in several FMs. Some books and notes are picked up while others are read on the spot. Loot and non-loot items also also act in a way that sometime feels inconsistent, as loot items are automatically collected while non-loot is simply held.

I could be alone in thinking this, but I think it hurts the immersion somewhat that such similar (or in some case identical) items act so differently when frobbed and used.

 

If there was a button that places a held item in your inventory then a lot of these items could be handled more consistently. Books and notes could be held and moved around, read with "use" (U key), and put into inventory with the "pocket" key (can't think of a better name for it right now), and this could apply to all books and notes rather than only some. All other relatively small items including loot could be moved around as well as put into your inventory with the "pocket" key. This would allow loot and non-loot items to act more or less the same, at least until they are put into your inventory.

 

 

On the other hand, I suppose the problems with this would be that it would probably mean having to have another button to worry about and it might differ too much from original Thief games to feel comfortable.

 

 

Come to think of it perhaps an extra key wouldn't be needed, maybe the "drop" key (R by default) could do this. I think right clicking again already drops the item for things that can be held and moved around so perhaps the R key could be used to place them in your inventory. If I remember correctly the R key just drops the held item, which seems a bit redundant since right clicking already does this.

Edited by Professor Paul1290
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Books and notes could be held and moved around, read with "use" (U key), and put into inventory with the "pocket" key (can't think of a better name for it right now), and this could apply to all books and notes rather than only some.

 

This is completely up to the mapper. I'm not sure why so many mappers use readables that you can't pick up...I personally hate that, unless it's something like a posted notice.

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Very coincidentally...

 

I was just coming in here to ask that rather than the Option of "Toggle Crouch" we could have both... a key to assign to hold down for crouching (which is the way I like it 99.98% of the time) AND a key to hold crouching.

 

I hope that is clear?

 

Anyway the reason is related to the above. I hate having to crouch down by pressing my key all the while (for one thing it drains my batteries; for another in is crampage-ing; and it's just generally annoying) while trying to read one of the unmanageable read-ables and stay in the shadows.

 

Still hoping that the idea I'm trying to get at is clear to someone.

 

...

 

Of course, if you've heard me before about read-ables: what I really want is to be able to take hold of any and all of them and read them in the real world by holding them and manipulating them as we do with other manipulate-ables.

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This is completely up to the mapper. I'm not sure why so many mappers use readables that you can't pick up...I personally hate that, unless it's something like a posted notice.

 

I don't actually know why I place immobile readables. Inventory clutter, maybe. If the player can pick up even the least important note, the player will end up with lots of useless stuff in their inventory. Okay, they can drop items, but how many do that?

 

But after playing the new RTTC I agree that it would be nice to rip the poster notice off a well light wall and sneak in a dark corner to read it. There a few readables in RTTC which I never read, because it simply was too risky. I had certainly time to sneak to the paper and frob it, but I didn't have time to safely read it.

 

Maybe I'll change all readables to mobiles in my future missions. The players just need to drop them if they don't want clutter. Thanks for bringing this topic to my radar.

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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Inventory clutter, maybe. If the player can pick up even the least important note, the player will end up with lots of useless stuff in their inventory.

yep, that is. not good.

 

But after playing the new RTTC I agree that it would be nice to rip the poster notice off a well light wall and sneak in a dark corner to read it. There a few readables in RTTC which I never read, because it simply was too risky.

 

... which also can be meant to be risky as part of gameplay option by the mapper ;)

 

I like it following way: if a note has an important clue for an objetive or secret it should be pickable. If has just "ambient" or story information don't clutter and mix with the important clues in the inventory.

Edited by fllood

"To rush is without doubt the most important enemy of joy" ~ Thieves Saying

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To add to my above post, I feel that the "drop" key (R by default) feels strange to use because it doesn't have that much use in normal gameplay. Right now there are things like dropping the skull in the room in St. Alban's Cathedral (might be a different FM correct me if I'm mistaken) and using the slow matches in The Heart of Lone Salvation that don't feel quite natural and sometimes feel like exceptions to the usual rules because dropping items is used so sparingly otherwise.

 

If the "drop" key brought ordinary items into your inventory (candlesticks, food, small non-loot things, ect.) in addition to pulling things out of it, then would it allow it to be used more frequently in normal gameplay without needing the FM author to allow for it specifically. I think would give players more opportunity to become familiar with its use so it won't feel as strange when an FM requires it. Also I think if players became used to using it then inventory clutter from books and other such things would be less of a concern.

 

I think it would make more sense for items you can already bring in and out of your inventory as well, at least more natural than the "use" key. It took me a while to realize you could put a flashbomb back in my pocket with the use key without dropping it on the floor first because it didn't seem quite right. I actually expected the "use" key to detonate it in my face because it was called a "use" key. :laugh:

Edited by Professor Paul1290
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I like it following way: if a note has an important clue for an objetive or secret it should be pickable. If has just "ambient" or story information don't clutter and mix with the important clues in the inventory.

 

I'm even less likely to read flavour text if I have to stand in the open to do it, especially if I know by being immovable that it doesn't have any important info in it.

 

Since players can easily drop any readables they don't need anymore, inventory clutter is not a problem (unlike keys, which were set to nodrop by default for some reason).

 

In fact, ghosters should be putting the books/scrolls back where they got them, right? :)

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I greatly prefer moveable readables myself.

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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