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This is basically about simulating radiosity. I'm sure many here are familiar with it, but it is of course very processor intensive when done the realistic way.

 

Actually, the "multiple candles not lighting up a room" problem is not caused by lack of radiosity (although it is a factor), but by unrealistically small light radii.

 

In real life, lights do not have a "radius", they have a quadratic fall-off which extends to a potentially infinite distance. Obviously this would be totally unrealistic to simulate with reasonable performance in-game, so a compromise is made that involves using a limited radius and a non-quadratic falloff. The result of this is small, fairly hard-edged pools of light which look OK in isolation but fail to provide the expected cumulative affect when a large number of them are used together.

 

I expect as PC performance improves, mappers will be able to extend the boundaries of their light radii, which combined with a more realistic falloff pattern (I think there are some already, named "expfalloff" or something similar) would go some way to providing a more realistic effect.

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There is no safe way to knock someone out in real life. Not with a bump on the head, not with choking. Even using a poison dart dipped in some anaesthetic would not be safe, because anaesthetics need

I find the skill in blackjacking should lie in maneuvering yourself into a position where you can knockout an AI and hide the body without getting detected by other AIs. Once you’re in that position,

Many things in TDM seem minor until you try to make them happen. Most times you sink into quicksand.

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Ah, my mistake. Thanks for the clarification.

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Another thing: Are the elite guards meant to be killed with a rope arrow headshot?

 

Hell yeah. Please don't take away my last-ditch ability to sacrifice a precious rope arrow if I must... It's gonna hurt me (almost, but not really anywhere near) as much as it's gonna hurt them. :ph34r:

"A Rhapsody Of Feigned And Ill-Invented Nonsense" - Thomas Aikenhead, On Theology, ca. 1696

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I've started putting in some ai-s and as i was browsing in their properties i saw something that caught my eye...Do AI-s blink?

I mean they cant see when they blink? If yes is this really necessary or useful ? isnt that eat up a hell of a processing time?

Or its handled like the eyepatch? so their actual eyelids block their view?

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Or its handled like the eyepatch? so their actual eyelids block their view?

 

That's not how it works. The eyepatch doesn't 'physically' block anything in the game world unless the settings have been changed to cause it. If you give a player an eyepatch, their visibility range must be adjusted by the mapper to reflect that reduced range. So, if a character blinks, it's strictly a visual thing....it has no affect on the AI's ability to see.

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their visibility range must be adjusted by the mapper to reflect that reduced range

 

Interesting.

 

Is this known far and wide? If not, I'm glad to make this annoying post asking you if this is known far and wide so that it might get just that little bit more attention than it would if I hadn't made this annoying post asking if it is known far and wide (that being the fact that an eye-patched head doesn't have automatically adjusted POV clippage, you see).

 

'Cause it's a neat thing the idea that an eye-patched AI will not be able to see you if you are on the eye-patched side as you sneak up to strike...

 

Still I wonder why there had to be a 'fix' for this (I think it was in 1.01?) if the adjustment was left to the mapper? It seems that the ability to adjust the limited POV would have been something mappers could always do... but with the 'fix' it was maybe regulated by the head chosen (yet still adjustable)... anyway I guess not.

"A Rhapsody Of Feigned And Ill-Invented Nonsense" - Thomas Aikenhead, On Theology, ca. 1696

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Still I wonder why there had to be a 'fix' for this (I think it was in 1.01?)

 

The ability to adjust the horizontal FOV independently of the vertical FOV did not exist until 1.01.

 

that being the fact that an eye-patched head doesn't have automatically adjusted POV clippage, you see).

 

Any head with an eyepatch has already been set up by me to use the appropriate FOV values. If a mapper made his own head entity, or somehow bound an eyepatch to a head mesh that didn't normally have one, then it would be up to them to set the new entitydef up appropriately.

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Ah... excellent.

 

Thanks for the further exposition. So (and to carry this on a bit more) all those eye-patched fellows we know and love should be properly FOVed, and hopefully any newly created heads will be created by those so in the know that they'll set these new created entities(?) up likewise...

 

Well done.

"A Rhapsody Of Feigned And Ill-Invented Nonsense" - Thomas Aikenhead, On Theology, ca. 1696

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Cool. It's good to know that the ones I am familiar with will by default operate consistently (that being being blind where they oughta be :))

 

Hey, while I have you guyzes attention (Voice and ArtDept) care to let us "users" in on the plans for mechanical "beasts" and thingies and (if there are such plans beyond the very cool LanternBot) how things are going on that front?

 

I feel this is an appropriate thread to raise this is after our brief tangent there... as the Mech stuff (more of it) would be an improvement AFAIC.

"A Rhapsody Of Feigned And Ill-Invented Nonsense" - Thomas Aikenhead, On Theology, ca. 1696

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care to let us "users" in on the plans for mechanical "beasts" and thingies and (if there are such plans beyond the very cool LanternBot) how things are going on that front?

 

Probably best to start a new thread if you want to discuss it at length. Atm we have no specific ideas/plans for new steambots.

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How about a camera? i would even volunteer for modeling it.( uving ,texturing included)

 

I'm sure if you contributed one that fits the theme and similar quality of existing models/AI it would be more than considered for acceptance into the TDM base, and even if it takes a bit of time it could still be added and used by mappers :)

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Do you mean an actual camera, or something akin to the T2 heads? The former wouldn't really fit the technology level of our setting. Some kind of stationary sentry could probably work, however.

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Yes, i am thinking of some kind of sentry or t2 like camera, i am all in for original ideas however, i really like the lantern bots features of casting light on the player, and alerting by sound rather than running away to guards as t2 bots did.

 

How about a stationary thing that would do no more than cast light on things that cause it to alert. this would be great if it could work on ai too.. i think a simple team change could make it aware to those too.. so no alarm, nothing, only casting simple light on things that alert it, be it player or maybe ai too(protecting it somewhat by doing so).. on standard it could either be rotating or stationary.. when the cause of alert is unfollowable by the light than return to normal mode. so players could maybe use the time while it has its light on ai to sneak by.

 

I think that or something like that might work a lot better than the usual camera like method where it alerts, its a bit too trial and errorish sometimes with those.

Edited by _Atti_
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My two cents.

 

It seems Our Hero always only has a shortsword. How about give him a long sword too? ( It seems the guards swords are longer)

 

Arrows. If I shoot 5 arrows into a body, I should be able to retrieve all 5 arrows again. You can do this only if shot into wood.

 

If you miss your target and hit a stone wall, the arrows disappear. They should bounce and land where you can go and pick it up.

 

Food. As per the Food thread. I want food to do at least a little more health - perhaps 5 points for Bread 3 points for smaller snacks like apples.. something like that..

 

Where's the Mutton.. I have not seen Mutton?

 

Why can't you drink ale? It could have a small healing effect and a small buzz effect too.. This would be good if it's the only food around and you really needed it plus it makes it harder for you to shoot or fight or run away.

 

Ability to mantle up onto a ledge that you have just climbed with a rope arrow. As if holding the rope with one hand and pull yourself up with the other hand. Can be done easily IRL.. so way can't Our Hero?

 

Ladies. I have only played through A Thief Without Honor, The Thieves Den Demo and The Kings Chalice, but I haven't seen and lady folk yet.

Edited by Dark Phoenix
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It seems Our hero always only has a shortsword. How about give him a long sword too?
It's incredibly unlikely that you'd be stealthy with a longsword stuck away, it would limit your movement greatly, a short sword is unrealistic but a dagger would have been quite meeeh... I simply cant find a use for heavy weapons. (Some people have said I come off harsh and that tact was wasted on me...) :(

 

Arrows. If I shoot 5 arrows into a body, I should be able to retrieve all 5 arrows again. You can do this only if shot into wood.
Arrows are not meant to be infinite use, aim carefully and remember that single killing blows are the sign of a professional.

 

If you miss your target and hit a stone wall, the arrows disappear. They should bounce and land where you can go and pick it up.
You'd never run out of arrows really, aim carefully (Yes, maybe we do need a sight on the bow for some people, perhaps in easy mode or gameplay options - I'd like to see a discussion of this as I think it would get rid of a few "TDM is too hard" comments)

 

Food. As per the Food thread. I want food to do at least a little more health - perhaps 5 points for Bread 3 points for smaller snacks like apples.. something like that..

I cant really present a counter case, the amount of health should be low, 1/100 is a bit useless maybe 3-4 would be a bit better, though eating of food is only in as a nice quirk and not a feature. It shouldnt be a feature.

 

Where's the Mutton.. I have not seen Mutton?

You're free to model some larger cuts of meat, we'd love to have them and they are on our wishlist!

 

And just remember, you're a thief not a hero out to save the day :)

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You'd never run out of arrows really, aim carefully (Yes, maybe we do need a sight on the bow for some people, perhaps in easy mode or gameplay options - I'd like to see a discussion of this as I think it would get rid of a few "TDM is too hard" comments)

 

I remember in T2 FMs that there were custom bows and sights, as well as replacement weapons like the staff/pan substitute for the blackjack, so maybe bow sights should be left to mappers, or created as options that could be chosen by mappers.

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Just don't make sights a default or, worse, no choice at all, please...

 

[sights Nazi]No sights for me![/sights Nazi]

 

I agree most arrows should break most of the time, never more than one retrievable from a body, and all that... but occassionally if one glances off a wall very obliquely? Maybe some low and random percentage of these could not break?... I think this may even happen as TDM works now?

 

And, yes! The sentries that's what I was hoping might make it into TDM. But I like even better the idea that some other types of mech-stuff could happen. :ph34r:

Edited by aidakeeley

"A Rhapsody Of Feigned And Ill-Invented Nonsense" - Thomas Aikenhead, On Theology, ca. 1696

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It seems Our Hero always only has a shortsword. How about give him a long sword too? ( It seems the guards swords are longer)

I own a springsteel longsword, myself. (I'm a big renaissance/SCA geek :)) It's quite cumbersome no matter where it's sheathed.

 

If you miss your target and hit a stone wall, the arrows disappear. They should bounce and land where you can go and pick it up.
Even modern arrows (any tip, wood/fiberglass/carbon fiber shaft) bend, shatter, blunt, or otherwise become unusable hitting stone. Some of mine become bent after embedding themselves in trees.

 

Why can't you drink ale? It could have a small healing effect and a small buzz effect too.. This would be good if it's the only food around and you really needed it plus it makes it harder for you to shoot or fight or run away.
Interesting idea. This might change gameplay balance a bit, though. I like seeing potions as my source of health, and other food as moveables that work to help create the immersive setting.

 

Ability to mantle up onto a ledge that you have just climbed with a rope arrow. As if holding the rope with one hand and pull yourself up with the other hand. Can be done easily IRL.. so way can't Our Hero?
You can do this very easily using the dedicated "mantle" key.

 

Ladies. I have only played through A Thief Without Honor, The Thieves Den Demo and The Kings Chalice, but I haven't seen and lady folk yet.
As far as I know, TDM has only one female model. Off the top of my head, I know that Patently Dangerous included m'lady.

yay seuss crease touss dome in ouss nose tair

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Thanks for the input folks.

 

I do see your points about the longsword and the arrows breaking. I still think that you should be able to retrieve them all out of a body because that's realistic in real life. If I have to use arrows I do try for the one shot. My favorite weapon is the blackjack.

 

I've gotten lots better with the bow without a sight.. the one thing that's hard still is the really far off shots like the last target in the training mission. I think it should be an option to have a sight if people need it. Perhaps some range markings too to help out.

 

I never set the dedicated mantle button.. Cool Thanks.

 

I'll let someone else do the Mutton modeling.. I can't draw a straight line.

 

The ladies idea is one really from a wish to see ladies be incorporated into the story line as well as see them walking around town and inside the houses.. makes a fuller looking town I think.

 

Hey.. How about a wandering dog that can bark and alter the guards to a thief that's hiding?

 

And, Serpentine, don't you know.. I'm no thief.. I'm Robin Hood :-) J/K

 

Edited by Dark Phoenix
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