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hmmm, if that means the frobhelper will still blink in and out of existence even if tdm_frobhelper_alwaysVisible is 1, then this is not really what I'm looking for.

Ok, I guess this needs some more explanation.

 

If tdm_frobhelper_active is 0, the frobhelper is never shown. Set it to 1, and it will be rendered in one of two modes:

 

1) The original design, i.e., automatic blend-in when near small objects, is activated by setting tdm_frobhelper_alwaysVisible to 0, which is the default.

2) If you want the crosshair to always show, independent of current context, you have to put tdm_frobhelper_alwaysVisible = 1. The frobhelper then behaves like a regular crosshair.

 

If you want to actively toggle visibility, you have to set tdm_frobhelper_alwaysVisible = 1 and add a keybinding that hides or shows the frobhelper via

 

bind [DESIRED KEY] toggle tdm_frobhelper_active 1 0

 

As a bonus, actively toggling visibility via tdm_frobhelper_active will also use the existing fade in and out routines, so it doesn't pop in instantly. However, you will want to set tdm_frobhelper_fadein_delay to 0 and reduce fadein and fadeout durations, for more responsiveness.

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There is no safe way to knock someone out in real life. Not with a bump on the head, not with choking. Even using a poison dart dipped in some anaesthetic would not be safe, because anaesthetics need

I find the skill in blackjacking should lie in maneuvering yourself into a position where you can knockout an AI and hide the body without getting detected by other AIs. Once you’re in that position,

Many things in TDM seem minor until you try to make them happen. Most times you sink into quicksand.

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I see you were describing both modes without making it explicit. It was my original understanding as well, but it's good you clarified. So it seems everybody gets what they want, yay.

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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Guards do turn their heads to look at doors opening/closing, but they only treat them as suspicious if the mapper has flagged the door that way.

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  • 9 months later...

It always annoys me when it is difficult to get loot out of containers because the container bottom is frobable and you have to move the mouse around a lot until the loot is selected. So when I played one of Dragofers great missions recently, I noticed that his containers behaved differently. I asked him about it and this is what he replied:

"As for the unfrobbable container bodies, they're all atdm:froblock entities so it should be possible to overwrite them with a modified version that changes 'frobable' from '1' to '0'. It's entirely possible, however, that this entity class is used in other ways as well, potentially breaking missions, but looking at i.e. St. Alban's Cathedral it looks like it's used exclusively for container bodies."

Would this be a possible change for the core mod? Otherwise I will add it to my Unofficial Patch...

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I'd leave this up to mapper decission, although what I prefer is just a frobable lid. If you're worried about loot being accessible from the inside, you can set it to Hide 1 and make a Target link from the lid, so the loot is spawned during opening.

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The easiest way is just to only make the lid frobbable.  That's the way the container prefabs have been for the past two years.

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I use only prefabs for chests and all the ones I use have both frobable lids and bodies. It may be worth considering to modify all the prefabs to have only frobable lids, if there's a consensus for that.

As for controlling frobability of items in the chest, it can be handled by putting a target_setfrobable monsterclip brush within the chest that toggles frobability of all entities it touches that don't have immunity to the setfrobable effect. I actually wasn't aware it can be done in other ways too.

Modifying the base class of froblock entities by changing a 1 to 0 would be easiest, but froblock may be used for other things than chests too? Maybe padlocks, custom setups etc.?

 

I wonder why it's called froblock: a frobable lock, or it blocks frobbing? Would be most realistic if stuff inside the chest could only be frobbed if you have a clear line of sight to it. On the other hand there'd be a lot of quality of life to gained if we didn't have to worry about the chest body getting in the way.

 

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I use only prefabs for chests and all the ones I use have both frobable lids and bodies. It may be worth considering to modify all the prefabs to have only frobable lids, if there's a consensus for that.

I did modify them.  Certainly since 2.07 the chest prefabs should only have frobbable lids.  If not something has gone wrong somewhere.

 

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22 hours ago, Dragofer said:

On the other hand there'd be a lot of quality of life to gained if we didn't have to worry about the chest body getting in the way.

I agree and the def solution is very elegant, does not depend on the mission creators and works for older missions too. If you deem the whole change too risky I will include it in the Unofficial Patch and with a little luck I might get feedback if missions get broken by the change ;)! P.S.: And done. I will test this myself while playing too of course...

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/11/2019 at 3:01 PM, Dragofer said:

Would be most realistic if stuff inside the chest could only be frobbed if you have a clear line of sight to it. On the other hand there'd be a lot of quality of life to gained if we didn't have to worry about the chest body getting in the way.

That reminds me of this problem: being able to frob e.g. light switches in the next room through the wall unless prevented by mapper precautions. Presumably the default frob trace behaviour is too firmly established to change, but I wonder whether entities could be given a spawnarg that disables frobbing them through solids.

Some things I'm repeatedly thinking about...

 

- louder scream when you're dying

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Hello all. I didn't play TDM since 2.05, and I've discovered with great pleasure the new V2.07.

I had problem while updating. I had to comment berlin.de server in tdm server file because server were not responding and tdm_update didn't wanted to apply 206_to_207 patch.

I've played Volta II with 2.06 and had the rope arrow bug and also the black lines shadder bug.

When finally succedeed in updating to V2.07, all bugs were gone and I've noticed a very nice fps improvement, thanks for all the tech team \o/

Frobhelper is really nice and useful. Softshadows are a pleasure for the eyes.

You know the most immersive sens is hearing and for me, what is really breaking immersion is footsteps sounds. 

ihmo it gives the whole game an amateur aspect. I feel like walking with the same wood sandals my avatar is wearing, I don't feel like wearing boots at all. 

I'd like to make a personal patch with Thief footsteps sounds. If I'm correct sounds are in tdm_sound_sfx02.pk4\sound\sfx\movement\footsteps\player\

Do I have to overwrite sounds files in tdm_sound_sfx02.pk4 file, or can I make a new tdm_sound_sfx03.pk4 using same sounds names ?

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13 minutes ago, Apiai said:

Do I have to overwrite sounds files in tdm_sound_sfx02.pk4 file, or can I make a new tdm_sound_sfx03.pk4 using same sounds names ?

Yes, you can do it with making a new tdm_sound_sfx03.pk4. The .pk4's get loaded in alphabetical order and overwrite earlier .pk4's.

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9 hours ago, snobel said:

On the subject of footstep sound mods: Any chance SeriousToni's improved footstep sounds will make it into TDM proper? The player-footsteps-on-tile sound in particular is vastly superior IMHO.

I didn't know about this. If it hasn't yet be integrated into the base game, maybe this would be something for the Unofficial Patch? I'll check it out...

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Did the alert message mechanism between guards has been modified in V2.08 ? While playing Ravine, a guard at main entrance got alerted, started to search me, and in less than 20 seconds, 15 guards were on the bridge searching for me, which is exaggerated. It was like guards spread the alert message with telepathy instead of spread the alert when guards meet each other.

ravine-2020-05-29-20-48-53.jpg

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On 5/23/2020 at 12:25 AM, snobel said:

On the subject of footstep sound mods: Any chance SeriousToni's improved footstep sounds will make it into TDM proper? The player-footsteps-on-tile sound in particular is vastly superior IMHO.

I've always wanted TDM to have sounds that better represent the noise levels in the game, so I gave that pack a try hoping it would. Tile is the sound I have the most issues with in TDM, and this mod's sounded way quieter than the base sounds. In fact, a lot of sounds in that pack just felt too quiet compared to the base sounds. I had to boost up my volume to hear them well enough but that also made the voices even louder.

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On 5/31/2020 at 10:48 AM, Gin said:

I've always wanted TDM to have sounds that better represent the noise levels in the game, so I gave that pack a try hoping it would. Tile is the sound I have the most issues with in TDM, and this mod's sounded way quieter than the base sounds. In fact, a lot of sounds in that pack just felt too quiet compared to the base sounds. I had to boost up my volume to hear them well enough but that also made the voices even louder.

Yeah, the conversation about the footsteps keeps coming up.  I don't really know if it's a matter of quality of the samples or that some players think the footsteps volume should be 'realistic'.  The problem with realistic levels is that they do not provide adequate feedback to the player, which is who the footsteps are intended to inform.  They're not meant to be representative of what the AI are hearing, but rather to clearly inform the player what type of material they are stepping on.

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I think the footstep sounds question is rather tricky, I haven't checked the raw samples, but I bet they don't have similar compression / normalization levels, so they can be tweaked in relation to each other in sound shaders. As for realism, I'd ditch it in favor of familiarity and playability on the first possible occasion ;) So the whole " why thief with hard soles" discussion is irrelevant to me, I have no problem with tile being loud, stone and wood being a bit more quiet, because that's a "surface difficulty level" convention known from Thief, etc., etc.

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On 5/23/2020 at 10:25 AM, snobel said:

On the subject of footstep sound mods: Any chance SeriousToni's improved footstep sounds will make it into TDM proper? The player-footsteps-on-tile sound in particular is vastly superior IMHO.

The issue I think is that the current footstep sounds in TDM are insufficiently beefy compared to the Thief games. Not so much the loudness. Compare the tile sounds from Thief: Deadly Shadows, which were quite silent in some respects. But it was all good.

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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On 5/31/2020 at 7:59 PM, Apiai said:

Did the alert message mechanism between guards has been modified in V2.08 ? While playing Ravine, a guard at main entrance got alerted, started to search me, and in less than 20 seconds, 15 guards were on the bridge searching for me, which is exaggerated. It was like guards spread the alert message with telepathy instead of spread the alert when guards meet each other.

They just have to hear the alert bark for the alert state to pass, and the bark can spread through portals as far as the volume attenuates by distance, which for a yell could actually be pretty far, I think. I don't know if this changed, or if it was a design flub by the mapper, or maybe the alert-passing part of alert barks should have a smaller radius than the barks themselves, since one wouldn't expect to go on alert by a faint muffled sound they can't tell is actually a comrade barking an alert.

You could test it by playing the same part of the FM in an older version of the game and see if it reproduces the problem (a map design issue, or a problem that's always been there) or not (a change in the mod).

If you want a quick fix for the time being, you could turn down the AI's hearing acuity.

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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