Sotha's mapping thread

[Baddcog]

Well, not sure how you're doing your 'skybox'.

 

Are you just putting them inside the map, but outside the player reachable area?

 

Are are you putting them in a seperate space with a skybox camera?

I've messed with this and posted... It works pretty good, but something in the headbob script makes the sky camera bob with the player. So all the buildings in the skybox would bob and bounce with player so it looked really bad.

Someone had said they thought it was fixed but that's about the last I heard of it and it wasn't fixed at that time.

 

We really need that because you could build the top of a clocktower at a small scale in the skybox and hide the seam to the bottom of the building and the clocktower could be seen anywhere in the map over roofs. But the actual building in the playable area only needs to be a bit taller than anywhere the player can reach.

 

ie:

 

skybox tower

^

||

 

 

player area bottom of tower

ceiling here

||

||

floor here

 

The player could still go all the way up inside too, just not see out through windows or the illusion is gone.

----------

Models right along the edge of the map would still be better than brushes (if caulked) as your map proves. And that's stuff that could be 3d, or at least 2 sides depending on player view. Even objects that the player could bump into, but not get on/behind.

 

But I agree, distance models are fine as decals. I actually did this in TF2 with some bamboo models I made. Had 3d models the player could get right up against. Then took renders (screens) of them in Max and made decals. (like your trees up there). Putting the decals behind a few models and you really couldn't tell the back ones are decals but they thicken up the bamboo forest ALOT. But they player couldn't get beside/behind/above them.

--------

 

Would be cool to have a collection of building decals in the mod too for others to use.

[Sotha]

Well, not sure how you're doing your 'skybox'.

 

Are you just putting them inside the map, but outside the player reachable area?

 

Are are you putting them in a seperate space with a skybox camera?

 

Yeah, definitions, definitions...

When I talk about a skybox I mean

• A small separate room outside my normal map geometry
• The room walls have cubemap sky&terrain texture with no details. Landscape only.
• The room has decal patches with buildings. There the city walls seen in the shots is the only model.
• The room has the skyboxcamera-entity. I don't remember now the exact entityname.
• The skies in my normal geometry is textured with portal_sky so they show what the skybox camera sees

 

 

I've messed with this and posted... It works pretty good, but something in the headbob script makes the sky camera bob with the player. So all the buildings in the skybox would bob and bounce with player so it looked really bad.

Someone had said they thought it was fixed but that's about the last I heard of it and it wasn't fixed at that time.

 

I do not see any weird bobbing. Everything seen in the skybox looks okay. Only problem is that they move in unison, as if the scene the skybox sees is like a flat painting: when the player moves there is no perspective variation, ie distant buildings move slower than the nearest. The buildings just sit there static and they do not move when the player moves. When the player looks around the skybox looks good and immersive.

 

The other problem I've spotted that sometimes the skybox blinks out and reappears when mantling.

 

 

Models right along the edge of the map would still be better than brushes (if caulked) as your map proves. And that's stuff that could be 3d, or at least 2 sides depending on player view. Even objects that the player could bump into, but not get on/behind.

 

Yep. Nearby objects just HAVE to be real objects, especially due to the skybox no-perspective-movement -issue.

 

Would be cool to have a collection of building decals in the mod too for others to use.

I've now one decal with 5 trees and one other decal with 2 towers and three kind of buildings each shot from several angles. The buildings are shot at ground level so they work nicely for distant buildings at the same level the player is in. Now that I'm writing this I'm confused why I didn't take similar shot of the models/architecture/buildings we have. Gotta do that also, since these buildings look better than the decals I made from the toy buildings.

 

Once I get these textures .dds:ified I'll make them available for you. Can you suggest how I should name them?

building_decals.mtr?

and the shadernames could be something like decal_buildings / decal_trees.

Is there a guideline for naming conventions. If they're gonna be added to TDM the names should go right with the first attempt...

[Sotha]

Need help.

 

I'm trying to get my decal textures into .dds form. Without success.

 

I'm basically doing as told in the dds creation tutorial in the wiki using the version of compressinator which was provided.

 

• I open source tga
• I generate mipmaps
• I compress the thing with DXT1
• I saved it with save compressed
• I renamed the DDS to dds

When I'm dmapping doom tells me that "couldn't load image." DDS does not work, tga's do. I've triple checked the path in the material file. I've tried both DXT1 and DXT3.

How do I get the damned dds working?

 

What I'm doing wrong *this* time?

[greebo]

Did you put them in the dds/textures folder tree or next to the TGAs in textures/? The former is the way to go.

[Baddcog]

Well, dds diffuse and spec in dds/darkmod/textures/decals/... look in the editor, it'll tell you the paths. For instance trees would go in vegetaion sub-folder of decals.

 

There might be a buildings folder, not sure.

 

The normals.tga (if you have em) go into textures/darkmod/textures...

-----

The defs don't matter, you should just make a Sotha.mtr and keep your materials there, we can just add them to existing atdm_decal_vegetation...etc... mtr's as needed for organization.

 

They go into decals folder so decal doesn't need to go in the name.

 

I'd put

 

trees_bg_variations_01 or something.

 

building_redbrick_bg_01 ??? bg for background?

[Sotha]

All the .dds are in

/darkmod/dds/textures/decals/vegetation/forest_trees.dds

/darkmod/dds/textures/decals/building_facades/ city_buildings.dds

For the time being I also have the .tga:s in that path.

 

I've got the material file set up correctly, but still d3 says that cannot open the .dds files. Ingame I see pitch black shaped as per the alpha-files, so D3 sees the alpha-files in the same folder, but not the .dds files.

Could they be somehow in a wrong format or something? Or should it simply work?

 

Also should I make the alpha-textures into .dds or is it okay if they're .tga?

[greebo]

It's no problem to have DDS files with alpha channel data, that's what DXT3 is for.

 

Can you upload the DDS file somewhere and post the material?

[Sotha]

It's no problem to have DDS files with alpha channel data, that's what DXT3 is for.

So this means that I don't need the separate xxx_alpha.tga texture and I can embed the alpha in the dds texture?

 

How?

 

I create a .tga with transparent background and compress (using DXT3) that into .dds or is there something else to it?

 

 

Can you upload the DDS file somewhere and post the material?

Sure I'll do that once I get home. If someone provides info how to have alpha IN the dds file, I'll try to create a dds with alpha and upload that.

 

As always, thanks for helping out.

[Sotha]

Okay here goes:

http://www.mediafire...88yrlgzg6896g6l

 

This version is the alpha version:

• Added an alpha channel to the original tga, removed the black background
• I checked alpha in compressinator, looked good.
• Created mipmaps
• Compressed in compressinator with DXT3.

It still does not load in D3. The file contains: material, dds and DR preview tga's for both the tree and city building decals.

[Baddcog]

Well, I don't know what the 'compressenator' is. I just use the photoshop dds nvidia plugin.

 

Have your tga, with alpha. Save as dds3. Should work fine.

 

Normal map needs to be tga in the regular texture folder. (only the diffuse and spec are dds and in the dds folder)

In this folder also put an editor image in JPG format. If you'r gonna use a tga you might as well NOT have an editor image. It's supposed to be low quality jpg so the file size is real small, that's why it saves resources in the editor.

 

You don't need to create mipmaps (well, there's a checkbox in the DDS plugin, but you don't need to do it seperately)

[Sotha]

Well, I don't know what the 'compressenator' is. I just use the photoshop dds nvidia plugin.

It's the program, which is recommended for this task in the texture dds creation tutorial in our wiki.

 

Have your tga, with alpha. Save as dds3. Should work fine.

I just tried the GIMP's dds plugin to create the dds. Even this alternative dds-file does not work for me!

 

Could you please check the files provided that is the dds broken somehow. I've checked my material file ten times already, but I've no clue what is going on.

 

 

Normal map needs to be tga in the regular texture folder. (only the diffuse and spec are dds and in the dds folder)

In this folder also put an editor image in JPG format. If you'r gonna use a tga you might as well NOT have an editor image. It's supposed to be low quality jpg so the file size is real small, that's why it saves resources in the editor.

 

Okay. Thanks for info, I'll do so in the future.

[Baddcog]

at work so can't test in game but I'm sure it's your material file

 

textures/darkmod/decals/vegetation/forest_trees
{
surftype15
description "forest_decal"

qer_editorimage textures/darkmod/textures/decals/vegetation/forest_trees_ed.tga

diffusemap  	dds/textures/decals/vegetation/forest_trees_d.dds



}

 

should be

 

textures/darkmod/decals/vegetation/forest_trees
{
surftype15
description "forest_decal"

qer_editorimage textures/darkmod/textures/decals/vegetation/forest_trees_ed

diffusemap  	dds/textures/decals/vegetation/forest_trees_d



}

 

Don't put the file extensions in the material file.

 

Also, you'll need to copy other info, like a blend stage from another decal so you can blend the alpha. As is the alpha shouldn't show up.

[Sotha]

at work so can't test in game but I'm sure it's your material file

 

Don't put the file extensions in the material file.

 

Also, you'll need to copy other info, like a blend stage from another decal so you can blend the alpha. As is the alpha shouldn't show up.

 

Okay. Now material file looks like this:

textures/darkmod/decals/vegetation/ forest_trees

{

surftype15

description "forest_decal"

 

qer_editorimage textures/darkmod/textures/decals/vegetation/ forest_trees_ed

{

blend diffusemap

map dds/textures/decals/vegetation/forest_trees_d

alphatest 0.5

}

 

}

 

 

 

 

textures/darkmod/decals/building_facades/ city_buildings

{

surftype15

description "decal buildings for distant structures"

qer_editorimage textures/darkmod/textures/decals/building_facades/ city_buildings_ed

{

blend diffusemap

diffusemap dds/textures/decals/building_facades/city_buildings_d

alphatest 0.5

}

 

 

 

}

 

The compressinator generated image still says couldn't load image.

The GIMP dds-plugin generated image says unknown token 'diffusemap' in mat textures/darkmod/decals/building_facades/ city_buildings

[Serpentine]

textures/darkmod/decals/vegetation/forest_trees // I have no idea why the forum wants to wrap this, arg.
{
   surftype15
   description "foliage"
   noSelfShadow
   twoSided
   nonsolid
   qer_editorimage textures/decals/vegetation/forest_trees_ed

   {
       blend diffusemap
       map textures/decals/vegetation/forest_trees
       alphaTest 0.5
   }
   {
       blend add
       map textures/decals/vegetation/forest_trees
       red global2
       green global3
       blue global4
   }
}

Take note I have changed some of the paths to be more... normal.

 

You dont need to specify that the file is a dds or even for the texture to look in a dds folder, just make sure you place it in the right place i.e if the tga works in :

C:\doom3\myfm\textures\decals\vegetation\

you would place the dds in :

C:\doom3\myfm\dds\textures\decals\vegetation\

 

You are aware that the foliage will not be alpha blended, rather it will have a hard alpha. I'm working an an easy solution to get both lighting and blended edges, but its a bit tricky to explain at times. If you're using DXT3 you can either set a threshold value when encoding or you can leave the image with soft alpha information in it and the alphaTest will take care of that value in game. I would go with the 2nd option. DXT5 is more than likely a better choice but doom3 doesnt support all of its modes and can be a bit of a pain, so I'd go with DXT3 with the full alpha channel and if you dont think the colours are being saved well enough, go for DXT5 once you have it working in game.

 

When working with moving from TGA->DDS I find that it's often far more reliable to use Compressinator, latest version is fine. I have had a lot of trouble with the nvidia dds plugin not correctly using alpha channels from 32bit tgas. When using photoshop I usually save the completed texture as a TIFF with transparency included and layers excluded, I then drag it into compressinator and right click the image, select "Alpha" and check the information is there. Check RGA/RGBA in the same way so that you know things are fine. Then generate mips and compress.

 

I would also suggest adding a normal map, it makes foliage look a lot better when you have hard edges. If you designed the texture with soft blending, chances are you can use your alpha channel to provide your heightmap to produce this from, otherwise just use normal diffuse->normal, njob does a great job here. The normal will have to be a tga.

[Sotha]

Take note I have changed some of the paths to be more... normal.

 

I have the files in the following folders:

darkmod\dds\textures\decals\ vegetation\forest_trees_d.dds

darkmod\dds\textures\decals\ building_facades\city_buildings_d.dds

 

I copy-pasted that material file you provided (and fixed the wrapping) but it still does not work.

 

This problem has WTF painted all over it.

 

EDIT oh, and the editor .tga's are in:

darkmod\textures\darkmod\textures\decals\vegetation\forest_trees_ed.tga

[Serpentine]

Oh I didn't actually check with your file, lemme go make 100% sure they are ok - gimme 5 min.

 

Edit : Got it working, just gonna pack it up now.

[Serpentine]

http://tdm.taaaki.za.net/files/tempuploads/buildings_and_trees.zip

 

Should be correct now. Quite a few paths and filenames changed so dont extract over your files expecting them to be replaced.

[Sotha]

http://tdm.taaaki.za. ..s_and_trees.zip

 

Should be correct now. Quite a few paths and filenames changed so dont extract over your files expecting them to be replaced.

 

Hurrah! Thanks a zillion. Tested it and it works!

 

Obviously I do not understand at all how the TDM path referencing works.

editor image is at: darkmod\textures\decals\building_facades

and dds image is at: darkmod\dds\textures\decals\ building_facades

They are in different paths physically on the harddisc.

 

And still both editor image and the dds are referenced in the material file by:

textures/decals/building_facades

 

This is the thing which caused my inability to solve this. Must remember this when I'm going to dds:ify my model textures.

 

Again, thanks a lot for everyone trying to help.

[Baddcog]

It's just that we had issues with normals being dds so they HAD to be TGA (which are too large for all textures of course).

 

So the paths were split, but Doom just looks into the base folder and finds them inside of darkmod/....

 

Objects are the same of course but are under models/darkmod/props instead (but you can always just use the non-model textures). Mainly I think that's just for ease of use in editor so you don't have to screen between which models are for terrain AND models. You just see terrain tex (unless you dig, and finding model tex, that can be hard, I still haven't figured out how exactly DR references them).

[Sotha]

Okay, done.

It's been quite a sidetrack but I think I'm finally finished with these.

 

I decided to NOT put normalmaps in these, because they're supposed to be backdrops so far away that the normals are not needed. If someone else wants to do this, please go ahead.

 

The textures are collections of building and vegetation models like this:

 

 

 

The mapper can use these on decal patches to create illusion of surrounding world. They work the best in skybox rooms. Results might be something like this:

 

Everyone is welcome to use these. FOR NON-PROFIT applications only. Please feel free to add them to TDM assets if you wish.

 

Get the textures here:

http://www.mediafire...tmcbq76bq696r1c

 

The file contains dds (one vegetation and two sets of building facades), DR previews and the material file. Enjoy!

[Tels]

Okay, done.

It's been quite a sidetrack but I think I'm finally finished with these.

 

Very cool!

 

Just one request (since I cannot edit DDS and you probably have the TGA originals)

If you haven't done so already, could you please move everything more together, so we have more space on the texture?

 

Wasting all the black parts is unnec., we could either drop the texture size in half, or have twice the amount of detail on it

 

Otherwise, Good work!

[Serpentine]

Those wont need normals either I thought you were making plant leaves and such at first.

 

But they do look pretty good for making skyboxes and such... mmm

[Sotha]

Very cool!

 

Just one request (since I cannot edit DDS and you probably have the TGA originals)

If you haven't done so already, could you please move everything more together, so we have more space on the texture?

 

Wasting all the black parts is unnec., we could either drop the texture size in half, or have twice the amount of detail on it

 

Otherwise, Good work!

 

Thank you!

The black space is intentionally rather big. Imagine the situation where the mapper has a decal patch. Then he applies the texture on it. Then he sets the scale so that the object he wants fits roughly the decal patch. Then he has to align the texture so that the patch presents only the object the mapper wants and not fragments of the next object. Having this somewhat large black area saves a lot of mapper nerves, since the alignment is much more merciful. When this point of view is taken into account, the black areas are not so large after all.

 

I'll gladly sacrifice a some texture size for fellow mappers convenience. So no. I'm not changing that.

(Also I would then have to recreate my skybox for the fifth time and that's not happening.)

[Tels]

Thank you!

The black space is intentionally rather big. Imagine the situation where the mapper has a decal patch. Then he applies the texture on it. Then he sets the scale so that the object he wants fits roughly the decal patch. Then he has to align the texture so that the patch presents only the object the mapper wants and not fragments of the next object. Having this somewhat large black area saves a lot of mapper nerves, since the alignment is much more merciful. When this point of view is taken into account, the black areas are not so large after all.

 

Uhm, you do now the texture tool? Believe me, such big black spaces aren't nec. at all - the max you need are maybe 10 pixels to clearly sep things [0]

 

 

I can remake your skybox if you want, however, I think we just take your texture and compress it for TDM, then you can leave your skybox as it is, and we get the smaller texture I'll do this, just added a tracker entry to remind me.

 

http://bugs.angua.at/view.php?id=2377

 

If I am done with the textures, would you compress them to DDS for me again? Also, can you please supply the original TGAs so I don't need to start from DDS?

 

 

[0] Texture space doesn't come for free, even tho modern graphic cards have much more, there are still people with only 256 Mbyte memory on the graphic card. Having 1 or 2 Mbyte for one texture makes a difference for them, esp. if this happens for more than one texture.

[Springheel]

That's great Sotha, I've been wanting to do something like that for ages, but never got around to it.

 

I don't see any problems with the size of the margins between the buildings--there's no way they could be compressed enough to drop the texture size by half.