changed pm_walkspeed, now what to do with pm_runmod

[LEGION]

I just tried Sons of Baltona Part 1 and as the guards saw me I instantly run away, but as getting to the starting area they catched and killed me while running. This is because:

I changed 'pm_walkspeed' to '60' (default=70). But this breaks the runspeed too, because TDM uses a modifier. Default is '2.12'. I raised it to '2.3' but I´m just guessing.

 

I´m sure someone (Mortem?) knows a way or a value that helps me to regain the original running speed. Maybe a value that I have to multiply with the default´s to always get the right running speed?

 

I never tried to outrun guards before, but the player should be able to, right? Guards carry a lot more weight and otherwise it would be too much trail&error.

[Springheel]

Why did you change the walkspeed in the first place? That's going to mess a lot of things up.

[SneaksieDave]

It sounds like a simple math problem, isn't it? Determine the old walkspeed * mod, then use new mod to multiply by new walkspeed to restore original runspeed.

 

I can't say for sure though. And I'm not sure what else it might affect (e.g. creeping, footfall volume). What you're seeking likely can be done, but one of the others will have to give you details.

[LEGION]

Walking was simply too fast for my taste. The only thing that could brake/mess is the running speed, isn´t it?

And yes, crouching/creeping is affected too, that was too fast either for my taste. But again, what should it mess with? (except running speed) The footfall sound still matches.

Edited July 10, 2010 by LEGION

[aidakeeley]

2.4733333333333333333333333333333

[LEGION]

If you don´t made it up I think you´re a genius! Thanks. How did you do it in case I change the walkspeed again?

 

But I really would like to know what else it could mess with, Springheel?

[Komag]

just some basic math:

70 X 2.12 = 148.4

60 X ? = 148.4

you want to isolate the ? so you can solve for it. Just bring over the 60:

148.4/60 = ? = 2.47333333333333333

[aidakeeley]

Oh....

 

You couldn't give me even 1 hour of being thought of as a genius...

[LEGION]

Thanks guys, once more I´m happy to be here with you! (I would like a 'thumbUp'-smiley here)

[Springheel]

But I really would like to know what else it could mess with, Springheel?

 

Your ability to KO moving guards, for starters.

[LEGION]

It´s still working!! I play with this right from the beginning, cause I changed this in Doom 3 too. Guards running me out was the only thing that that bothered me.

[Midnight]

Would it not affect the distance you'd be able to jump while running? That could create problems if someone designed a platform jumping puzzle which needed the full distance the current speed provides.

[New Horizon]

Would it not affect the distance you'd be able to jump while running? That could create problems if someone designed a platform jumping puzzle which needed the full distance the current speed provides.

 

Well, if the run modifier is set correctly it should match the default run speed....but we still don't recommend changing walk speed or anything of the core settings. They're all balanced for gameplay. It's kind of funny how so many people complained about the player walk speed being too slow, so it was raised...only to have someone complain about it being too fast now. lol You just can't win.

[Mortem Desino]

Well, if the run modifier is set correctly it should match the default run speed....but we still don't recommend changing walk speed or anything of the core settings. They're all balanced for gameplay.

You are also breaking your swimming speed (good luck in NHAT 1/3 now), which is clamped to about 1.3 x walkspeed.

You're also changing your creeping speed (which is also a modifier). And your crouch speed (which is also a modifier)

 

Your ability to push objects has changed some, since it's also partially based on walkspeed.

 

Finally, it actually doesn't appear that jump uses walkspeed to apply a distance boost. It gets its vars elsewhere.

[Fidcal]

Then there is wading against a force field current. This has got me wondering if any of the beta testers who had trouble wading against the water current in Heart had actually reduced their walk/run speed? Maybe I reduced the current for a bad reason. It was fine for me and others originally and I could not understand why anyone had any trouble or why it should vary on different systems.

[LEGION]

You are also breaking your swimming speed (good luck in NHAT 1/3 now), which is clamped to about 1.3 x walkspeed.

You're also changing your creeping speed (which is also a modifier). And your crouch speed (which is also a modifier)

 

Your ability to push objects has changed some, since it's also partially based on walkspeed.

 

Finally, it actually doesn't appear that jump uses walkspeed to apply a distance boost. It gets its vars elsewhere.

 

As I said, I had this setting right from the beginning and no trouble at the swimming part(But now I can fix the swim value). I was aware of the modifiers, erm, in fact, I changed/slowed down the crouch modifier too. Don´t know the default´s now, but I use the two crouch-heights Fidcal showed me. For the higher one I have, ahh wait,

just checked and I still have the default value for the higher crouch (0.54), I just lowered it for the lower position to 0.4. I would´ve gone more down the value but anything lower than 0.4 wouldn´t give me footfalls in creeping-mode.

 

Before it reminded me too much of Doom3 and in DarkMod/Thief I like to go slower around, adds up immersion for me. It´s a really important thing for me. I can understand that you´re upset, and I guess I´m maybe a good example why it´s not good to have so much changeable via the console, but I had always in mind what I changed (I wrote everything in the autoexec) and for bad cases I have bind a key that toggles the new and original values. So I wouldn´t gone mad on mappers in case I couldn´t solve a challenge because of my own changes.

Should I maybe say: Don´t try this at home!

 

So If I preserve the maximum speed-values I should be on the save side, shouldn´t I?

 

edit: And I haven´t changed the original crouch-position, so I still can pass little spaces that are made for this height!

Edited July 11, 2010 by LEGION

[New Horizon]

Before it reminded me too much of Doom3 and in DarkMod/Thief I like to go slower around, adds up immersion for me.

 

...but Doom 3's default values are...

"pm_walkspeed" "140"

"pm_runspeed" "220"

 

A whole lot faster than any of our defaults. lol

 

We settled on our default after a lot of player feedback, and by running two videos side by side of the same section of map created in both Thief and in TDM. The current default is pretty much bang on.

[LEGION]

I said it reminded me, sure I was aware of Doom´s defaults, I changed that walkspeed to 110.

 

OK, but because I played Thief with Joystick-support I had a much slower average speed than the default walk speed. That could be the reason that spoiled my walk-feeling.

Edited July 11, 2010 by LEGION

[Fidcal]

You might consider using the same toggle method as used with the crouch modifier to toggle between standard walk speed and your slower one. That way you can switch back if you have a feeling anything is compromised. For instance if you cannot wade through some water or run from a guard or anything else we've not yet thought of.

[LEGION]

Yes Fidcal, that´s what I have, though I have to add now the altered Run/Swim-mods. I think I add this to my gamepad as a key that modifies the value as long as I hold it down, with Pinnacle I can do such things now, yeah that will solve this entirely.

 

And what I said about DarkMod reminding me of Doom3 was stupidness on my side, sorry. Didn´t know how to say what was on my mind else. It wasn´t the walk-speed (that reminded me), I guess it was the 'behavior' caused by the bob-value that I didn´t liked. In the meantime I found out the value for bobbing, but increasing it looks even worse. I always had the Thief-bobbing in mind but that itself I can´t stand now as I get back to Thief (for comparing reasons only, TDM spoiled my need for Thief atm).

 

Don´t you think that the default walk speed and the footfall-sounds of this are too fast/loud for a Thief on tour who want´s to be in stealth?

Maybe you all play too much Shooters.

Edited July 12, 2010 by LEGION

[demagogue]

I'm generally of the opinion that the whole ethos of Dark Mod is freedom of the player to tweak everything they want, even core mechanics, though at their own risk. Its openness is what makes TDM special. But also a healthy respect for the amount of thought and testing that's gone into the basic system, and understanding how you're affecting the game's carefully honed balance when you tweak stuff. But I say if you really like something or are curious, do it, try it. It's a game after all. And if you spend a lot of work honing your own idea and making it work well (e.g., like the toggle suggestion), I think you should even upload it as a fan mod so others can try it (a much better approach than everybody always asking every freaking time (!) for the team to add their own personal tweak; FGS, add it yourself if you like it so much and upload it as a fan mod. Edit: That's not a swipe at you, btw, since you're not doing that anyway, but from a long history of this happening).

 

I'm also happy that the TDM team is honing the core gameplay to be the best it can be, and that people stray from it at their own risk. But that's what fans do. Nothing wrong with core and local branches. I'm personally actually very happy with the core mechanics, but then I've read so many of the raging debates that went into them and *know* why they are the way they are, and why they're very well thought out.

[LEGION]

Yes, everybody has it´s own taste and the good thing in TDM is that you can tweak a lot yourself and adjust it to your liking, if you know how it all plays/fit together.

 

I finished now my toggle and deleted the changed mods and put the defaults back. As I tested I came to the conclusion that the walkspeed was still too fast for my taste and with the toggle-key I can now easily add a forth walkspeed (for crouch too). So I reduced the walkspeed to 40. (The difference before wasn´t much, I guess I did this in case of upcoming problems) I changed the step volumes too for my new slower walk, if someone is interested, here are the values: (I had to change the default volumes a little bit too to have no differences in the fifferent mods)

 

this are the (lightly altered) default values:

 

pm_walkspeed 70;pm_crouchmod 0.54;pm_creepmod 0.44;pm_stepvol_crouch_creep -12;pm_stepvol_crouch_run 0;pm_stepvol_crouch_walk -6;pm_stepvol_creep -12;pm_stepvol_run 6;pm_stepvol_walk -2

 

and my new ones for a slower speed:

 

pm_walkspeed 40;pm_crouchmod 0.6;pm_creepmod 0.54;pm_stepvol_crouch_creep -17;pm_stepvol_crouch_run -4;pm_stepvol_crouch_walk -10;pm_stepvol_creep -15;pm_stepvol_run 2;pm_stepvol_walk -8

 

I bound this to two separate keys and configured a button on my gamepad to press the first upon pushing the button and to press the second key upon releasing the button.

 

If you want a single button to toggle the values you must add this line to your doomconfig:

 

bind "key" "toggle pm_walkspeed 40 70;pm_crouchmod 0.6 0.54;pm_creepmod 0.54 0.44;pm_stepvol_crouch_creep -17 -12;pm_stepvol_crouch_run -4 0;pm_stepvol_crouch_walk -10 -6;pm_stepvol_creep -15 -12;pm_stepvol_run 2 6;pm_stepvol_walk -8 -2;"

 

If you want the new slower values right from the beginning without having to push a key add the following to 'autoexec.cfg' (If you don´t have it, create it in the DarkMod-folder, where Doomconfig.cfg is and open with Notepad) Though, if you do this you should switch the values in your toggle. If you don´t, you have to press the toggle-key two times to have a change in speed.

 

seta pm_walkspeed 40
seta pm_crouchmod 0.6
seta pm_creepmod 0.54
seta pm_stepvol_crouch_creep -17
seta pm_stepvol_crouch_run -4
seta pm_stepvol_crouch_walk -10
seta pm_stepvol_creep -15
seta pm_stepvol_run 2
seta pm_stepvol_walk -8

 

 

So, I hope there are at least, say, three guys outside here that will like these changes. I like them very much, it adds more variety to moving/sneaking around.

[LEGION]

I looked into the bob-thing and found out that things like 'runbob, walkbob and crouchbob' are not at all changing the amount of bobs, just how much bobs/footsteps are made.

 

I increased the bobroll, -pitch and -up values and while walking and running it´s just fine now. But in crouch-mode it´s really too much, I almost got a headache now.

Where can I define the amounts of bob´s for crouch, walk and run? (via the console)

[Springheel]

So I reduced the walkspeed to 40.

 

Why don't you just creep then?

[LEGION]

Creeping is too slow and should be for situations when you need to be calm. (my new settings slowed creeping down a lot, I guess it is now like the original creep-setting in the Thief-games) Walking with 40 I wanna use when I look around. I tested it last night with Sons of Baltona and it really felt damn good to me. I don´t like to rush through the missions, as it felt with the default speed. I use only this now when I need to be faster given the situation like sneaking up on a guard. And guards still hear me behind them with my lower speed.

 

As no one seems to be with me here I´m pretty sure I 'spoiled' (not really) my taste for this with my years of Analog-joystick-support in Thief where I got used to a slower speed for walking around.

Edited July 14, 2010 by LEGION