Messin' around again... a drawbridge this time

[PranQster]

What kind of entity is the cannonball? I was wondering if it could be made a func_static with hide 1 and bound to a nodraw translator. Target the cannonball at each end would hide/unhide it.

 

[edit] so when fired it is made visible but at the end of the translate it is made invisible while it returns.

 

Thank You!!

That sounds perfect... will try it later.

[Bikerdude]

I'll give it a little more TLC and do just that (after I learn how to make a prefab).

Piece of cake, just select all the items you want to include and then go to the file menu and select save as prefab :-)

[PranQster]

This is starting to get challenging. I think I will have to separate the portcullis from the drawbridge, unless we can find a way to make the chains wrap around a windlass when they translate/rotate. LOL.

Or, if I can make 2 individual lengths of chain completely disappear with nodraw while they are inside the building, without effecting anything else during translation, then I'll be happy.

 

I added what appears to be a functional lifting system for the portcullis, complete with chains, pulleys, counterweights and a motor.

The drawbridge chains are barely visible on the other side of the portcullis in this screenshot. But if you look carefully, the end of one of them can be seen sticking up above the windlass it pretends to wrap around. When the bridge is raised, its chains and the portcullis pass through each other during their translation.

 

The side chains with counterweights pretend to go over the outside pulleys and down to the outer sides of the portcullis. It all looks cool during translation, with the exception of the drawbridge chains floating across the room and clipping through everything.

 

 

This chain goes up and over that pulley (appears to anyway), then across the room (hidden in shadowed recess) to the center portcullis pulley and down to the center of the portcullis.

Edited July 19, 2010 by PranQster

[PranQster]

Piece of cake, just select all the items you want to include and then go to the file menu and select save as prefab :-)

 

Awesome, I was hoping it was as simple as that. I'll have to remember the rock I tucked away out of sight which is the relay trigger responsible for basically everything getting into motion. It will probably end up as decoration on the bottom of the moat.

Edited July 19, 2010 by PranQster

[Fidcal]

Prefabs saving:

Turn off all filtering first and show all layers if necessary and UNhide etc to make sure you are not missing anything when you select.

 

If it's for use by others in other maps you should drag selections to around 0,0,0 before saving. This because the position is added as an offset when inserting into another map. If they around 0,0,0 then when a mapper inserts a prefab at a place in his map it is inserted right where he is pointing and not 50 miles away.

 

The only time you shouldn't do this is if you are saving a prefab to re-insert into another version of the same map. If you then just import it from the file menu it is imported directly to where it was before.

 

You can also add a comment to the prefab if it needs it by giving worldspawn the property: editor_description with your comment. If there is no worldspawn in the prefab then consider adding a tiny harmless nodraw cube. The comment is visible in the prefab selector in DR.

[Fidcal]

The only way I know at present to hide parts of the chains is to make them clip into solid brush or model. I don't know how difficult it would be to make that brush invisible eg, with a cube map or some kind of camera > gui surface setup but it probably would take a lot of working out.

[rich_is_bored]

It can be done without clipping into other objects but you need to know a bit more than just level editing to pull it off. For an example, see the burn away effect used in Doom 3.

[Komag]

When we make prefabs we almost always want them at 0,0,0 right? Only rarely do we want them at the current coordinates. So maybe DR could have some default setting in the make prefab selection that says "will be set to 0,0,0, unless you check this box to retain the current location (rarely needed)" or something like that. Would save a lot of headache always moving junk to 0,0,0

[SneaksieDave]

It's a good idea; I forget every single time I go to make a prefab or copy/paste to another map or with all of the recent ASE export attempts.

[Tels]

It's a good idea; I forget every single time I go to make a prefab or copy/paste to another map or with all of the recent ASE export attempts.

 

Actually, I'd rather have a "import prefab in center of current orthoview" feature, because if you have a giant map far away from 0,0,0 it becomes a pain to move the prefab back to where you actually wanted it to appear.

[SneaksieDave]

As long as it's for all of 'em (prefabs, exports, copies...), yup.

[Fidcal]

When we make prefabs we almost always want them at 0,0,0 right? Only rarely do we want them at the current coordinates. So maybe DR could have some default setting in the make prefab selection that says "will be set to 0,0,0, unless you check this box to retain the current location (rarely needed)" or something like that. Would save a lot of headache always moving junk to 0,0,0

I think if DR could be made to do that then no need for a checkbox. If you import with the file menu then change nothing and all the prefab contents retain their original positions (as now.) If instead you RMB insert then it goes direct to where you clicked. I imagine it might be possible. It's a bit like import unchanged, [virtual] move to 0,0,0, then add the RMB values. But I don't think there is any equivalent function to move to 0,0,0 for a whole selection of stuff. If you just move one model to 0,0,0 then you just set its origin. With a mixed selection I guess you'd have to average all the coords to find a rough centre, find the nearest coord to that average amongst those selected and store it, then add/deduct that value from all the coords, then add the RMB coords.

[Bikerdude]

If it's for use by others in other maps you should drag selections to around 0,0,0 before saving. This because the position is added as an offset when inserting into another map. If they around 0,0,0 then when a mapper inserts a prefab at a place in his map it is inserted right where he is pointing and not 50 miles away.

I would also add: check your origins, make sure they are all where you want or expect them to be before saving the prefab.

 

The amount of times this has caught me out is bordering on the annoying.

[PranQster]

Ok, I'll keep all of the above posted suggestions in mind.

 

I think as far as hiding the chains goes, I can still have the portcullis counterweights visible while hiding the drawbridge chains in a solid brush. So no big deal... just won't see the full raised gate and pulley system. But for a portcullis with no drawbridge, all is good

[Fidcal]

It might be useful if there were a texture that could be made invisible beyond but hides whatever is inside it. Bit like an invisibility cloak.

[PranQster]

It might be useful if there were a texture that could be made invisible beyond but hides whatever is inside it. Bit like an invisibility cloak.

 

I was thinking the exact same thing. Like the 'nodraw', but 'nodraw_contents' or something to that effect.

[Bikerdude]

I assume there is no way that the physic in tdm are upto to the job of making the chains behave like real chains..? and wrap around things - eg the pulleys etc.

[rich_is_bored]

Even if the physics engine were gutted and replaced I wouldn't attempt something like that. There is too much chance that things will clip and get stuck. In this case it's better to fake it.

[Komag]

not impossible, but probably not worth it. Rope arrows will drap and wrap around stuff somewhat, but only have a few "bones", so the rope looks pretty blocky (like 10 chunks). To have a real chain with all the links physically interacting realistically would be extreme overkill considering the state of other physical interactions in the game. Probably even just a very short chain would kill performance in an empty room. But that's the sort of thing I would LOVE to see in the future if we all eventually get more physics oriented gaming hardware

[Fidcal]

If we were going to that extreme then instead I would make a chain of say 20 or 30 func_static link models each with hide 0 and bound to the mover. The windlass model would include some matching chunky wrap_around chain and wide enough to absorb at least one link. The chain is lined up so it points into the drum somewhat rather than around the edge. As each link enters the drum then it is triggered to hide so it comes out the other side invisible (and vice versa when exiting.)

[PranQster]

If we were going to that extreme then instead I would make a chain of say 20 or 30 func_static link models each with hide 0 and bound to the mover. The windlass model would include some matching chunky wrap_around chain and wide enough to absorb at least one link. The chain is lined up so it points into the drum somewhat rather than around the edge. As each link enters the drum then it is triggered to hide so it comes out the other side invisible (and vice versa when exiting.)

 

Hmmm.... might have to play with that.

[demagogue]

Or have the drum set halfway into a box (or even into the floor or a platform) at the point where the chain enters, so it just disappears into the box. Then you might get the illusion of it wrapping around when it's really just continuing on straight, out of view, in sync with the turning drum.

[demagogue]

Or have the drum set halfway into a box (or even into the floor or a platform) at the point where the chain enters, so it just disappears into the box. Then you might get the illusion of it wrapping around when it's really just continuing on straight, out of view, in sync with the turning drum.

[PranQster]

Cool. I'm going to work on all of those ideas.

 

I made several modifications over the last couple nights. The way I have it now looks pretty damn good, but limits how open the room behind the portcullis can be.

I ended up having to make a narrow "portcullis maintenance access" room to hide the chains from the drawbridge extending through the air. It works, but looks a bit out of place. I want to get rid of that so the portcullis chains and counterweights can be seen as well as the raised portcullis.

If I can make that drum/windlass, wrapped in individual chain links, and have the drawbridge chains pass through it and disappear... I will be a very happy camper and delete that maintenance access room.

 

 

I'm still planning on making a prefab for the bridge and portcullis.

But I might also package this tiny test map as it is. Then I can share my wonderful 4 or 5 undecorated, sparse rectangular rooms, complete with mismatched and unaligned wall textures

 

But as a bonus you would also get:

1 Operational cannon (fires cannon ball) with lever trigger, lol.

1 Operational cannon with response to fire stim.

1 Operational wine barrel tap with flowing wine when opened

My patented steam-operated elevator lift piston (eat your heart out, Mr. Otis)

And last but not least:

The Sunglass-wearing Thug

 

Upon request the following are also available:

Newtonian reflector telescope with polished silver mirror and functional* eyepiece.

A 1x4x9 Monolith "full of stars" complete with David Bowman's final words preserved for all eternity!

 

*Moon and stars visible in eyepiece, but simulated of course.

Edited July 21, 2010 by PranQster

[Fidcal]

Or have the drum set halfway into a box (or even into the floor or a platform) at the point where the chain enters, so it just disappears into the box. Then you might get the illusion of it wrapping around when it's really just continuing on straight, out of view, in sync with the turning drum.

This is basically my general method @ http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/11417-messin-around-again-a-drawbridge-this-time/page__view__findpost__p__224093 of clipping into a brush but I didn't clarify or embellish it. That is what I did in Nightwatch 2. But normally it needs designing from the start. I got the idea here that there was no nearby wall or floor to clip into otherwise why the question. I made one assumption too many.