Nosslaks stuff

[Springheel]

I thought that we had exactly the problem that projectiles collide with the CM so you cannot shoot arrows under our chairs.

 

Arrows are fine. It's other movables and melee weapons that use the CM.

 

However, you still have the problem you cannot throw things through the gap

 

I didn't suggest covering up the space between the legs, so the gap would still be there.

 

I wouldn't waste too much time on it,

 

I wouldn't either. As I said, Nosslak's CM is fine, but 3-sided legs are something to keep in mind for the future, particularly when making CMs for movables, where saving 8 tris becomes quite significant.

[Nosslak]

Is that 16-poly CM limit absolutely set in stone or could one get away with 18 or 20 polygons as well?

[Springheel]

No, it's set in stone. A map won't load with a movable cm higher than that.*

 

Not only that, but a movable cm can't have concave sections. It won't crash the map, but it will cause all kinds of physics instabilities. That's why movable chairs can't have gaps between the legs.

 

 

* actually, it's slightly more forgiving than that. It's not really 16 tris, but 16 flat planes, or something to that effect. It's been a while since I looked up the exact details, but I know I've made movable cms with 20 or even 24 tris.

[STiFU]

Arrows are fine. It's other movables and melee weapons that use the CM.

I guess the CMs are used for arrows as well, as long as those bounding boxes aren't breached and after that the ingame mesh is probably used. That would be computationally efficient at least.

[Springheel]

I guess the CMs are used for arrows as well, as long as those bounding boxes aren't breached and after that the ingame mesh is probably used

 

Are you talking about animated meshes or static? The rules for each are slightly different.

[STiFU]

I was merely speculating, but I meant both model classes.

[Nosslak]

I'm exporting my model and trying to get it in-game now (it's long over-due, I know) but I'm not sure what to call it. Right now I'm calling it globe2 but I'm sure you guys can come up with something better. So what do you think?

Edited December 28, 2010 by Nosslak

[Springheel]

Nothing wrong with globe2. Model names don't need to be especially descriptive.

[Nosslak]

Nothing wrong with globe2. Model names don't need to be especially descriptive.

Alright, I'll roll with that then!

 

I'm going back and making a proper collisionmesh for my bellows model now (the old had like 80 polygons so way too highpoly) and I'm wondering if this this mesh would work:

I'm asking because you said that concave parts may cause problems.I could remove that part and just make it flat but I think it'll look more realistic like this so I'd rather keep it.

[Springheel]

If you want it to be a movable, that concave section is very likely to cause problems.

[Melan]

It definitely has to be a moveable!

[Nosslak]

If you want it to be a movable, that concave section is very likely to cause problems.

Alright, I'll just remove that middle vertex

 

It definitely has to be a moveable!

That's the plan!

[Nosslak]

Here's a new quickie:

It's based on an image I found while searching for various crap on Google and it took perhaps 1.5h or so to make. Is it something you'd want for the mod?

[Springheel]

Indeed.

[LEGION]

My goodness...

[Fidcal]

Must be gas I'd think. But presumably this would go under unextinguishable as it's totally shielded. Nice. This will need a skin for lit/unlit.

[Sotha]

About those unextinguishable lights with brittle looking glass shielding.

 

If we had a broken model variant, doesen't that mean that we could make a prefab light which could be broken with a well placed arrow or sword/blackjack blow? Gameplay variety and it would make broadheads more useful. When the glass is broken, the gas leaks out and the light is extinguished.

 

Breaking the glass would make a lot of noise attracting nearby guards.

[STiFU]

Hey, that's a really cool idea. One would have to extend it as a general mod feature, so that it's consistent over all glas-shielded lamps. Also, we'll have to make sure destroying the glas looks believable.

[Nosslak]

Indeed.

Yes!

 

My goodness...

Thanks!

 

Nice. This will need a skin for lit/unlit.

Thanks! For that other lamppost I made there were already a suitable texture for the lampglass but it looks like I'll have to make a new one myself for this. Or do you know any texture that would fit?

 

About the globe model. I want the globe itself to spin but I don't need to make the collisionmesh for it have only 16 faces, right? I should probably have asked this earlier but it just occured to me. Also if necessary would it be possible to just let the collisionmesh for it sit still when only the visible mesh rotates?

 

Quick question: Are there any special polylimits or anything for shadowmeshes made for moveables? I would assume no, but it's probably best if I don't assume anything.

[Sotha]

Hey, that's a really cool idea. One would have to extend it as a general mod feature, so that it's consistent over all glas-shielded lamps. Also, we'll have to make sure destroying the glas looks believable.

 

Yeah, but we should also give the mappers a possibility to make utterly undestructible lights too. Glass does intuitively break, yes, but what is the material for an undestructible light?

 

If we had a breakable lamp entities, the mapper could put breakable lights as needed. When mapper wants an undestructible light, he can just put a model with noshadows and put a normal light inside it. But then there is the problem: the player encounters sometimes lights that can and sometimes lights that cannot be destroyed. Problematic..

[Nosslak]

Yeah, but we should also give the mappers a possibility to make utterly undestructible lights too. Glass does intuitively break, yes, but what is the material for an undestructible light?

 

If we had a breakable lamp entities, the mapper could put breakable lights as needed. When mapper wants an undestructible light, he can just put a model with noshadows and put a normal light inside it. But then there is the problem: the player encounters sometimes lights that can and sometimes lights that cannot be destroyed. Problematic..

How about making cracks in the breakable lamps glass? No cracks, no breaking.

[Sotha]

How about making cracks in the breakable lamps glass? No cracks, no breaking.

 

Brilliant! That would probably work!

[Nosslak]

Here's the lowpoly of that new lamp:

It is a little on the heavy side as it has 642 polygons already but if needed I could probably optimize it a little.

 

I decided to go with 4 alpha cards for the ring as it will help save a lot of polygons. I'm going with 2 of them for both sides because that'll make it look more like it has actual depth when in fact there is none.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Nosslak

[Aprilsister]

I too, like the idea of being able to smash lights. I don't like the idea of variability or arbitrariness, but I supposed that "feature" will never be solved to my liking (see: candles you can't put out(!!)).

 

I believe I would like just about anything that makes the game more interactive. So please do pursue this smashable gas/glass lights thing... <Opportunistic Nudge>: and while you are at it implement the readables as manipulable objects that you read by picking up and viewing and leafing through (as opposed to frob-and -float).

 

Anyway, that model you are working on, Nosslak, also looks as if it has a valve to control the gas? Maybe frob/toggle-able too? As the quiet option?

[Springheel]

But then there is the problem: the player encounters sometimes lights that can and sometimes lights that cannot be destroyed. Problematic..

 

Yep, that's the fly in the ointment. While greater interactivity is generally good, it requires some careful thought. It's not practical, given hardware limitations, to make everything breakable that should be breakable. Most windows are still going to be decorative, most interactive objects a player should be able to destroy (ceramics, glass vials, curtains, etc) will still not be destructible. Many things players should be able to pick up and move (torches, firewood, etc) will remain static. Generally players get used to this and it doesn't bother them very much, though occasionally you have to use suspension of disbelief to avoid wondering why you can't hide under a bed, or put out an oil flame with a cup of water.

 

Players can generally get used to game restrictions like that, but NOT if they are arbitrary--you can hide under this bed but not that identical bed, or you can break that light but not that other identical light.