Nosslaks stuff

[SiyahParsomen]

Posted this in the Untethered Dark Mod thread but I might as well post it here too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVxwZI0Bfmo

I'm sorry that it's so lowres, I just used the default settings for recorddemo and avidemo as it was just a quick test to see if I could get an animated mesh into TDM. Here's a better image:

He doesn't have any texture because I fixed a few things on him which broke my unwrap. I'll also try to make him a bit more dead with a more open mouth.

 

How many polys can I use for him? Right now he clocks in at about 3100 polys and I don't think I can lower that number without sacrificing form/detail.

 

yay! Our zombie is shaping! I'm already excited

Edited March 27, 2012 by SiyahParsomen

[RPGista]

 

Its alive, its alive!

 

Great progress...

[rich_is_bored]

The body looks good but that head looks way too detailed for something that's eventually going to be normal mapped. The silhouette is the only thing that should demand geometry. Small features like the nostrils, lips, and eyelids are better expressed in the texture. Also if you're looking for other places to reduce polygons, you can merge fingers. It looks good with them but zombies don't need that level of articulation.

[Tels]

OTOH; in that time and age, 3K polies is nothing. How many zombies are there on the screen at the same time? The target for other games seem to be in the 7K..10K range.

 

(It would be better if we could have LOD, then we could have a 10K model for close and a 2K model for >15m. But I am not sure this is possible with the engine)

[Nosslak]

The body looks good but that head looks way too detailed for something that's eventually going to be normal mapped. The silhouette is the only thing that should demand geometry. Small features like the nostrils, lips, and eyelids are better expressed in the texture. Also if you're looking for other places to reduce polygons, you can merge fingers. It looks good with them but zombies don't need that level of articulation.

Yeah, you might be right, the head might might be a bit too detailed (but then again faces need to be detailed as people tend focus on those). Will the zombie ever be able to rotate his eyes (ie look in another direction from the one he's facing)? If not I won't need my eye sphere or eyelids as geometry which would save about 350 polygons. I did manage to lower the PC down to 2.9k so it's a bit of an improvement already there. I don't think I'll merge the fingers because we are living in the year 2012 and we can afford 10 fingers.

 

OTOH; in that time and age, 3K polies is nothing. How many zombies are there on the screen at the same time? The target for other games seem to be in the 7K..10K range.

 

(It would be better if we could have LOD, then we could have a 10K model for close and a 2K model for >15m. But I am not sure this is possible with the engine)

Yes, this is how I reasoned too. If we are building for the future we should make it a bit more detailed than the D3 one (which is just 1200 polygons without the clothes).

[rich_is_bored]

The fingers can stay as they are. My main concern is the head. Here's a wire shot of the original zombie's head...

 

 

The entire head is one continuous mesh. Each triangle adds volume to the silhouette and the normal map makes up for the lack of detail. The eyes lack pupils and there are no eyelids. As such the zombie scans his surroundings with his head and he does not blink.

 

Are you intent on putting in the extra work to get pupils moving around and eyes blinking? All that's really needed here is a suitable replacement. I'm not objecting to making improvements but I do hope you see the irony in making the most lifelike character in the game a zombie.

[Springheel]

How many polys can I use for him? Right now he clocks in at about 3100 polys

 

You can easily go up to 5000 polys without any concern, and even more with a good shadowmesh.

 

Will the zombie ever be able to rotate his eyes (ie look in another direction from the one he's facing)?

 

None of our other AI have that ability so I wouldn't bother for a zombie. And I certainly wouldn't make them blink.

[Tels]

The fingers can stay as they are. My main concern is the head. Here's a wire shot of the original zombie's head...

 

 

The entire head is one continuous mesh. Each triangle adds volume to the silhouette and the normal map makes up for the lack of detail. The eyes lack pupils and there are no eyelids. As such the zombie scans his surroundings with his head and he does not blink.

 

Are you intent on putting in the extra work to get pupils moving around and eyes blinking? All that's really needed here is a suitable replacement. I'm not objecting to making improvements but I do hope you see the irony in making the most lifelike character in the game a zombie.

 

While I don't think one could save so much on the eyes that it will be worth (but maybe we want a really detailed hoolow eye socket? I thik rebb is right in that adding a few more tris at the top of the head will be better - that is what will stand out if you see a dark zombie framed against a bright background - the edges will be recognizable.

[Baddcog]

I wouldn't put in the eyelids and stuff either. Sure it's nice to have detail but as others have said that's not really detail that will be needed/seen... rotting corpse and all that.

 

You can still have some eyebrow movement to give the eyes more personality.

 

You could even lose a couple fingers

 

------

 

The nose is really bugging me though, it seems the whole head ios too tall, then the nose is caved in but the end is still there and intact...

 

I'd much rather see an open mouth and teeth, maybe tongue flopping around.. rotted off tip of nose and even some toes, even if only a separate big toe.

[Nosslak]

Are you intent on putting in the extra work to get pupils moving around and eyes blinking? All that's really needed here is a suitable replacement. I'm not objecting to making improvements but I do hope you see the irony in making the most lifelike character in the game a zombie.

Yeah, I do see the irony in that, so yeah, I'll just skip the eyes, eyelids and all that and save my 300 triangles then.

 

You can easily go up to 5000 polys without any concern, and even more with a good shadowmesh.

I don't think I need more than maybe 3.5k to make it look good, so that's what I'll try to go for.

 

You could even lose a couple fingers

I'd rather not make them too unique as it would then be obvious that they're just clones when in a group.

 

The nose is really bugging me though, it seems the whole head ios too tall, then the nose is caved in but the end is still there and intact...

The nose will be changed when I get to the sculpting phase. I was planning to just give him a cut/rotten off nose, so I really don't know why I modeled it as a regular one. I did model the head after photo references so it shouldn't be too tall but I'll try comparing it with another photo ref.

 

I'd much rather see an open mouth and teeth, maybe tongue flopping around.. rotted off tip of nose and even some toes, even if only a separate big toe.

I'll see what I can do with the open mouth, but I don't really know if it'll actually be necessary to model the toes as they look pretty good with just a normal and AO map like this (outdated model, I have fixed a lot of the proportional problems and optimized him but the old texture doesn't work with the newer model):

[nbohr1more]

Looking better all the time Noss!

 

Keep it up!

[Tels]

Nosslak, can we build it so that the hands/feet are attachable? Then you could have some with fingers, some w/o, some with a stump etc. Even if this does maybe makes animation problems, it would be good for static displays (heap of bodies etc).

[Nosslak]

Looking better all the time Noss!

 

Keep it up!

Thanks!

 

Nosslak, can we build it so that the hands/feet are attachable? Then you could have some with fingers, some w/o, some with a stump etc. Even if this does maybe makes animation problems, it would be good for static displays (heap of bodies etc).

While I suppose it'd be technically possible, I don't think it'd look all that good. The problem would be that this would create a big, noticeable seam where one model ended and the other began. I think it could work with the fingers but I don't think it'd look all that good for the feet. If anything I think we should use several different models with pre-defined settings as that'd make it possible to eliminate the seam problem entirely.

[SeriousToni]

Maybe it's just the green color, but it sort of reminds me of an alien

Would it be possible to make the head less stretchy (vertically) and the hands a bit smaller (too big / fleshy in comparison to the forearms)?

[betpet]

I agree, the hands do look a little big and fleshy really.

[rich_is_bored]

I can almost guarantee that's perspective distortion.

[betpet]

Almost?

 

Now you mention it, the distant hand does look pretty ok

[Springheel]

Nosslak, can we build it so that the hands/feet are attachable? Then you could have some with fingers, some w/o, some with a stump etc. Even if this does maybe makes animation problems, it would be good for static displays (heap of bodies etc).

 

That can be done fairly easily by saving different parts as different submeshes. Save the arm as a different submesh, and then model a stump underneath that arm. Use a skin to turn off the arm (or even easier, just save two different meshes).

 

Once the mesh is done and animated, it's not hard for me to import it into lightwave and do things like that to create variety. I think for now it's best for Noss to focus on doing what is needed to replace the asset we already have. That alone is a monumental task and could take a long time. Adding new things along the way will just drag it out and increase the chance of it never getting done.

[Tels]

That can be done fairly easily by saving different parts as different submeshes. Save the arm as a different submesh, and then model a stump underneath that arm. Use a skin to turn off the arm (or even easier, just save two different meshes).

 

Once the mesh is done and animated, it's not hard for me to import it into lightwave and do things like that to create variety. I think for now it's best for Noss to focus on doing what is needed to replace the asset we already have. That alone is a monumental task and could take a long time. Adding new things along the way will just drag it out and increase the chance of it never getting done.

 

Of course, I was just asking so that in 6 months we don't find out that "attachable feets" would have to be incorporated 6 months before and can't now be done.

[RPGista]

A late inspiration picture

 

 

Artist Jeremy Russel

[Sir Taffsalot]

Nos are you still interested in making a male version of the Venetian ball mask? I'm making a 2 part mission campaign and would need them for the second part. The second part definately won't be finished this year but I will probably be a making a start on it this year at some point.

[Nosslak]

I'm pretty busy with school right now and it doesn't look like I'll get a lot of free time any time soon. I've got projects lined up for the summer and the schedule for school seems pretty busy after the spring break as well. I'll try to finish the zombie somewhat soon (I haven't started on the sculpting yet, partly because I can't seem to get the head to look dead enough but also because of time), but I can't promise anything with the masks.

[Sir Taffsalot]

It's OK I know that real life stuff has to come first. However if you do manage to make it at some point this year that would be extemely fantastic and I would be forever greatful.