TDM versus TDS

[SneaksieDave]

I downloaded his archive and extracted as its own game dir. Maybe works and looks fine, just doesn't look like parallax mapping.

 

Dunno; if it's not working out of the box I'm not likely to try it again till it does.

[Baddcog]

"Virtual Displacement Mapping"

I searched google

 

http://en.wikipedia....arallax_mapping

 

that is parrallax mapping as I said many posts back. That's what makes UT normals look a bit better.

 

I seem to remember Komag posting screens or a vid showing it at one point too, quite awhile back.

[nbohr1more]

Well that applies to UE3 but thanks for clarifying that because it was in dispute from the sources I googled...

 

TDS is UE2.5 so was that back-ported or again is it just some perception (placebo)?

[Baddcog]

I'm not sure if I remember this from it being a T3 topic, or a UT engine topic. It's possible that even though they used ut2.5 (I'll take your word so if this statement is wrong it's your fault ) they could have implemented it in T3 since they did alot of major changes to the engine for that game specifically.

 

Pretty sure it was T3 though, don't see why we would have been discussing UT engine outside of T3 related issues since there was no plan of engine hopping.

------

i searched t3 parallax and found this pic.

 

though the people in the forum don't seem to know what they are talking about

 

http://img15.exs.cx/img15/4331/T3Main2004-08-1601-41-10-53.jpg

 

They say that the wall was tons of polys. It's obvious the stones at base of wall are polys, but if you look at areas of the wall its obvios the wall itself is flat.

look at the lamp monut, it's right on a brick crack, but appears flush. if the wall detail was polys it wouldn't look like that. Also right above the base stones the wall tex is obviously very flat.

[nbohr1more]

Yeah, its a comparison of T3 to TDM. The UT version for T3 is very customized so it wouldn't surprise me too much other than that it would be tough to pull-off Parallax Mapping on an XBOX... but that could just be a PC exclusive feature or patched-in feature...

[Baddcog]

New post just to point this out, maybe we should try it.

 

Parrallax mapping mod for Doom3

 

http://doom3.filefront.com/file/Parallax_Mapping_Mod_v10;29475

[AluminumHaste]

For those of you having issues using Sikkpin's test map, I made a video and put it on youtube.

For some stupid reason when I watch the video on youtube it's extremely dark, but the version I have on my computer looks fine. I don't know if it's just my computer and Firefox and IE are using some special plugin that's different than VLC, or it's because youtube re-encoded the video.

Anyways, here's the video:

[Baddcog]

I tried the parrallax mapping mod in St Alban. Can't say I really noticed much difference, it's supposed to use an inverted blue channel of the normal as a hieght map. But it also says uninstal other shader mods, and I suppose that could include any TDM specific shader parameters.

 

Hard to say too though, St Albans stone tex are pretty minimal in the 'relief' area. Didn't find any tex that had really defined stones, the floor is probably the most defined.

----

tried to watch the vid but my comp locked up and had to force reboot.

[LEGION]

New post just to point this out, maybe we should try it.

 

Parrallax mapping mod for Doom3

 

http://doom3.filefro...g_Mod_v10;29475

 

I just made a test and this has a negative effect on the AI-models, though their textures are not included in the update-pk4. Take a look:

 

 

 

edit: I can watch Aluminiums video, and it looks impressive!!!!

edit2: It´s just the imp-texture that looks a lot more like plastic than before, but it´s okay for the others. It really looks a lot better now.

Edited October 13, 2010 by LEGION

[SneaksieDave]

Anyways, here's the video:

Wow, that's insane. Why wouldn't that work with a GF7600, I wonder?

[LEGION]

Okay, my last post there you can delete or ignore, it just looked odd to me...

 

But here I have really an issue you all know for sure, it was present before but now it´s far more visible:

 

 

 

It´s from the first Doom3-level before the terror begins, it´s of course even worse while moving. *shiver* Are there techniques to fight this besides buying new GPU´s?

Also there is now a lot more flickering on thin&long surfaces. I know one can set mipmapping on .dds-files, but no dds are present on this parallax-mod, so using dds instead of tga better idea?

[nbohr1more]

Increased AA and AF settings should reduce that artifact but I am not sure it's entirely avoidable...

[AluminumHaste]

Increased AA and AF settings should reduce that artifact but I am not sure it's entirely avoidable...

 

AA is not applied to textures, only edges of geometry. AF may help, but you can also try turning on SSAA, which may help, but be prepared for a MASSIVE performance hit.

[LEGION]

Already activated. AF was x4, but with maximum x16 I can´t tell a notable difference. I have Nvidia GeForce 9800 GT, though not the best with Supersampling (7upMan told me) it´s still a good card, isn´t it?

 

I would like to see this shot with the best GPU out there...

[AluminumHaste]

Already activated. AF was x4, but with maximum x16 I can´t tell a notable difference. I have Nvidia GeForce 9800 GT, though not the best with Supersampling (7upMan told me) it´s still a good card, isn´t it?

 

I would like to see this shot with the best GPU out there...

 

Best image quality would be with SSAA at like 8 or 16x though 16x may be overkill. Your card should be able to do SSAA, give it a try, force it in the control panel for the Doom3.exe. It will probably run at like 2 fps , but it will look great. Don't forget to take a screenshot

[LEGION]

Hmm, SSAA is Anti-aliasing with Supersample, or what? This is my panel:

 

 

 

What is not visible is only:

Threaded Optimization: NO

Triple Buffering: ON

Vertical Sync: Force ON

 

Also for Anti-aliasing I can choose after x16, x16Q. But doesn´t help.

 

Now I chose 16Q and also 16 AF. Look:

 

 

But I hit the right angle, just a little to the right:

 

Edited October 14, 2010 by LEGION

[AluminumHaste]

Hmm, SSAA is Anti-aliasing with Supersample, or what? This is my panel:

 

 

 

What is not visible is only:

Threaded Optimization: NO

Triple Buffering: ON

Vertical Sync: Force ON

 

Also for Anti-aliasing I can choose after x16, x16Q. But doesn´t help.

 

Now I chose 16Q and also 16 AF. Look:

 

 

But I hit the right angle, just a little to the right:

 

 

 

Right now you have Nvidia driver set to "Enhance the application" try "Override the application", which I think is the only way to force Super Samplin in Doom 3 as it doesn't have built in support for SuperSampling.

[LEGION]

I tried now with 'Override', same outcome. FPS dropped only a little to sth with 40 while I watched the ship in the hangar. Inside again 60.

 

Gladly, I never saw any of this in a DarkMod-map. Could it be the texture itself?

[Baddcog]

part of it is the tex of course. having all those straight lines, you couldn't make a worse tex for showing off this issue. then add mirror like specular and bright lights and it makes it 3x as bad.

[LEGION]

It´s that parallax. Without it no complaints: (with my default-setting, AFx4 & AAx4)

 

 

only barely visible sometimes:

 

 

I dismissed the Parallax-mod. All this flickering everywhere and these 'gate-effect' weighted more than the graphical improvement.

[STiFU]

I'm not sure if I remember this from it being a T3 topic, or a UT engine topic. It's possible that even though they used ut2.5 (I'll take your word so if this statement is wrong it's your fault ) they could have implemented it in T3 since they did alot of major changes to the engine for that game specifically.

From my T3-mapping days, I know that TDS has no parallax mapping. Just for clarification!

 

I know one can set mipmapping on .dds-files, but no dds are present on this parallax-mod, so using dds instead of tga better idea?

No. If I remember correctly the mipmaps of .tga-files are computed on level-load.

 

It´s that parallax. Without it no complaints

Depending on when the parallax and the SSAA are applied, it makes sense that SSAA didn't have any effect on the outcome. Imagine SSAA is applied first, the parallax after that would immediately lead to alias again.

 

By the way, there is also a Relief Mapping mod for Doom 3, which works basically similar to the subpoly displacement mapping method of Cinema 4D, where polygons are subdivided and vertices are shifted depending on their heightinformation in the heightmap. The only visual advantage over parallax mapping is that you actually perceive 3d-structures at objectborders, whereas with parallax mapping you istantly see it's just a mapping technique, because it's still just a simple plane on which the 3d-effect occurs. The performance of relief mapping is horrible of course. However, both techniques share the same problem if the heightmap is too exaggerated: The texture gets stretched a lot if you look at it from a steep angle.

[Melan]

Returning to the topic of TDS.

 

I am currently playing the recently released Furious Flames by Tiens, which is the introductory mission to The Cabal, a sequel to the TDS story. It does so many things right. If Calendra's Legacy was the mission series that finally did Thief 2 justice and showed it the way it should always have been, Cabal may be that campaign for TDS. The environments are lush, chock full of detail and beautiful custom resources. The core maps are based on TDS city sections, but you can actually break into a lot of residences and shops - fully detailed, and not just the few meagre two-room apartments you had. There are mini-quests (kindof hacked into the game, but they work), and most impressively of all, the story is believable, genuinely sinister and ties seamlessly into the Thief continuum. Impeccable cutscenes showing the City in its full glory. Real readables with actual nuance. Custom AI, custom everything. A good use of real-time lighting. I am in the second loading zone right now; there are six, and the first one was easily as large as a good, sizeable Thief mission.

 

This is not to say it is all good; unfortunately the movement problems, AI weaknesses and other TDS "features" (like AI spotting missing loot and going on a full alert, which is great for realism but not great for a game about thieving) are in there, so the playing experience has its aspects of frustration.

 

But really, this pack shows that something genuinely great can be accomplished with TDS. If you still own the game, you owe it to yourself to try it out.

[Baddcog]

might have to. wouldn't mind seeing how well T3 would run on my current rig.

[New Horizon]

Yeah, I gave it a go myself. I like it...but...as you mentioned, the frustrating things about TDS are still there. The lurching to the side everytime I move still annoys the hell out of me. lol Still, it is a great example of what TDS could have been...and should have been.

 

I think they incorporated my 'use' key system from T3EnhancED.

[LEGION]

Alright, I already wanted to play TDS again. (I can´t really remember infamous Cradle, nothing but empty hallways and staircases, hmm...)

 

That reminds me to take care of community-patches before starting. Here is what I already have:

 

Collective_Texture_Pack_1_03

MinimalistProject-1.4.1

t3tweak-1.2

 

I also have here a lot of custom Texture upgrades by JohnP. (german link)

 

Also I remember a Tweak-guide at TTLG.

 

So, what else is out there you know to increase the TDS-experience besides Cabal?

Edited October 15, 2010 by LEGION