New Contest?

[Fidcal]

I was thinking similarly but not sure it would work out well. An entire FM of extreme eye candy would be very challenging in only one or two months. My alternate idea was that entrants throw everything at a single 'area' to make it as beautiful as possible in one month. But this would not make a playable FM so...

 

Each entrant makes one 'area' of one FM

The areas are all joined together at the end to produce a complete FM

Someone agrees to manage the project.

Entrants decide privately which area they will make.

A simple story & objectives is decided, probably just loot and get a special object. Plus standards like ambient light, style etc.

All the areas are then merged at the end, AI pathing finalized, etc. so players have an FM to play.

Players vote for each area, possibly anonymous authors.

 

That's the rough idea I was wondering about. An 'area' has to be defined but I was thinking just two or three rooms or streets.

 

But it needs quite a bit of organizing so maybe keep that idea on the shelf for some future contest or even just a group project.

[SiyahParsomen]

Nice idea fidcal. I want to mention that one of the responsibilities of project manager is defining how rooms are going to merge from the begining. On the building process of my (probably will never be finished) fan mission, my first approach was create seperate rooms, working on them seperately, then finally join them together. However, I was working with patches and joints didn't look smooth at the end. Besides, visportals were not working perfectly. PM should have basic DR knowledge in order to define at least these.

[Sotha]

Each entrant makes one 'area' of one FM

The areas are all joined together at the end to produce a complete FM

Someone agrees to manage the project.

Entrants decide privately which area they will make.

A simple story & objectives is decided, probably just loot and get a special object. Plus standards like ambient light, style etc.

All the areas are then merged at the end, AI pathing finalized, etc. so players have an FM to play.

Players vote for each area, possibly anonymous authors.

 

That's the rough idea I was wondering about. An 'area' has to be defined but I was thinking just two or three rooms or streets.

 

But it needs quite a bit of organizing so maybe keep that idea on the shelf for some future contest or even just a group project.

 

Sorry for being so negative, but this does not sound like a good idea.

In the perfect world it would be nice, but in this reality I really don't know.

 

The result would be nice example how prettyness is only a secondary point in a map.

 

The mission would not be of consistent style, it would be obvious it is mashed together from too many sources. To keep it consistent everyone should know what everyone else are doing.

Who places the AI and other map-global things? This is the thing which defines whether the FM is good or not. Who is the poor bastard who has to mash the fragments together?

What happens with drop-outs? "Whoops Roger stopped working, now we don't have the mansion second floor."

Who pays for the managers medication, because managing such a mess would result in the need of being constantly stoned?

[Baddcog]

The T2 beauty missions were pretty small. Like one building.

 

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What you're suggesting Fidcal has been brought up at TTLG before too. Like Sotha said there could be issues of someone not finishing, etc...

 

I think one way around that is to have some guidelines:

 

Mainly to set-up a tiling system. Like throwing down tiles in the Torchlight editor. They are square, they can be dead end, path going through n/s (rotated would be east/west), and a bend (enter N, exit west). That way they are easily connected.

 

 

1-restricted area. Probably a square or rectangle would be best. maybe 3 horizontal 512 peices, arrange as needed. straight, bend, zigzag... Vert space maybe limit to 1024 play area, 16.. height. skybox reasons.

 

2- 'doorways'. like above, must be ns or nw type pathway.

 

3- the entrance/exit to each area has to be a certian size. (visportal concerns, match-up to next tile...)

 

4- the dead end paths would be start and finish locals, would have to be made from the author who puts them together probably, unless we could agree on one person to do those sections specifically. But probably best for host to do them.

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Would be good for a city street type mission. Point a to B. Hell, in the city map I'm working on right now it changes styles pretty drasticaly from one area of the city to the next, so I don't think that would matter too much. Old Cities are cobbled together anyway.

 

Possibly a large city wall could run through the areas where they connect, tying it all together some. And the city gates would be placed by team member when connecting them.

Or maybe the city wall pieces are pre-placed in a prefab and the author needs to place one at each end.

 

Problems might be 3 people want to build a water works, and 3 a bank. Weird city. But if it was just random city streets and not too many 'theme' locations. More of a follow the courier type map with lots of nice scenery. Apartments and stuff to loot along the way, authors can have their own stories to tell in their locations but not objectives.

 

If it focused more on detail and less on story then after the contest maybe there could be poll for story... I don't know, might turn into more of a project than it would be worth. But it would be cool to have everyones work combined into a map for the community.

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[Midnight]

This idea sounds a bit like The Chain Project done in T2, where successive authors would take the unfinished mission and contribute to it in some way. I've not played it, so I don't know if this results in a very good mission, but at least they finished it!

 

Sounds like a fun idea, but not really suitable for a contest since each contribution will be of varying complexity, and if an objective spans across multiple parts, who gets the vote for plot, story etc.

[Fidcal]

I agree with the objections to the 'beauty rooms' idea which was why I was very doubtful myself. I'm sure the merge problems could be resolved by careful planning but the only way it might work as a contest would be if it was accepted it likely would not be good gameplay but just an eye candy contest to see what might be achieved. Normally mappers are limited for time and if you spent a month on every room it might take years for a good size stunningly beautiful FM. This way we might see a beauty show case to give ideas and inspiration in only one month, eg, Mid-November for Christmas.

 

But I'm not defending the idea because I am very doubtful myself. Just throwing it out because someone in the future might think of a way to make it work. Or, as said, just a group get together to do something without a contest.

[Baddcog]

could be something like a 'seasons' theme.

 

where the main score is based on how well the author did to make it feel like their season.

 

But not a specific season, just authors choice. Then we don't get 10 winter missions.

 

The daylight thing could be cool too. Not alot of authors ever go that route, so it's more challenging. Could be anywhere from dawn to dusk so it wouldn't limit everyone to bright yellow sunlight, could be dim with long shadows.

[demagogue]

Having actually been the co-leader of the Chain Project, I can say the 2 biggest issues are people lagging on building when it's their turn (holding up the whole process) and version control, both of which would be helped a LOT by subversion and deadlines (turn something in by a date or the pre-version goes to the next guy in line and you have to save your stuff as a prefab and get back in line to add it later). On that note, prefabs generally would help too. You could build your area solo and prefab it in later. Another big issue is to be sure authors understand their work may have to be altered to make the whole fit together (only as necessary & still respectful to the author's intent), and it may not be possible to get their permission 6 months later, so they should sign off on that at the beginning.

 

I think it could fly with Dark Mod because the Training Mission is essentially a chain project, and that turned out well.

 

I wouldn't put any restrictions aside from administrative stuff, though, and no planning. People are creative and they'll come up with clever things if left to their own devices... Then you can add some things to link them afterwards if you have to. The absolute randomness of the Chain Project is what made it special, I think.

 

As for other contest ideas, I like the idea of setting it in a movie or literature, like some side-quest that could have gone on in a popular movie or story with the characters. I'd like to see what movies/stories people pick and how they represent them.

[Melan]

I think it could fly with Dark Mod because the Training Mission is essentially a chain project, and that turned out well.

It did, but the different building styles are very apparent. Which is not that problematic for a training grounds mission, but it would be jarring for an actual FM.

 

IMO if there is a contest , it should be a simple deadline-based one. I.e. "celebrate the new year with a new mission" or an "Easter contest", allowing for variety and experimentation. The Christmas contest was cool because it only told you to make a mission, and you could do it whichever way you wanted.

[fraten]

I'll throw in some contest theme suggestions as well:

• Private property heist (Mansions, towers)
• Public property heist (Banks, churches, museums)
• Dark secret (Otherwise free mapping, but the story should involve a dark secret (with grave ramifications) the player uncovers)
• Water contest (water should be the contest theme: innovative use of water)
• Puzzle Mystery (The map should involve at least one brain teaser)
• "Make The Killer Mission" (Enitirely free mapping where the most fun map wins)
• Mechanical Nirvana (A map where emphasis is on victorian age steamworks)
• Movie Land (The maps should have special elements relying on cutscenes or conversations. Mission is about eavesdropping etc.)

 

Just my two cents: The Inventor's Guild is extremely underrepresented yet. So I would love to see the Mechanical Nirvana.

[Fidcal]

The inventor AIs are not ready yet nor enough mechanical items so that would be better at a later date. The inventor in Alchemist I just contrived from an ordinary townsman.

 

Melan, you mentioned Easter and that is actually a good spacing for contests imo:

 

Easter > Christmas > Summer(end August) > Easter

 

But I could be wrong and maybe there are enough mappers who like making the small contest FMs to keep it going twice yearly or more.

[Midnight]

Easter doesn't really fit the theme of the dark mod universe though, does it

 

How about a valentines day theme? I can see it now, "the romantic exploits of Farrell, master thief and lover extraordinaire".

[Bikerdude]

But I could be wrong and maybe there are enough mappers who like making the small contest FMs to keep it going twice yearly or more.

thats suits me :-)

[demagogue]

It did, but the different building styles are very apparent. Which is not that problematic for a training grounds mission, but it would be jarring for an actual FM.

 

Did you play The Chain Project? The jarring combination is pretty much the whole point and part of the charm. It's like a surrealist collage. I wouldn't see the point of any chained-building unless you wanted different styles, so I assumed that was the idea from the beginning.

[Baddcog]

Yeah, it might be jarring from one section to the next.

 

But if the point was beauty then it would end up pretty cool imo. Good thing about a contest as oppose to a pass-it-on project is everyone would just worry about their section and work at the same time. If the rules were followed and everyone had the same size/model connector then they'd be really easy to connect in the end.

Whoever connected them would have the final say on what order they were connected in to make as much locical sense as possible.

[LEGION]

Did you play The Chain Project? The jarring combination is pretty much the whole point and part of the charm. It's like a surrealist collage. I wouldn't see the point of any chained-building unless you wanted different styles, so I assumed that was the idea from the beginning.

 

Please, be more precise. What game? Website? Info? I don´t have a clue what you´re talking about.

[Baddcog]

T2 Fm, the chain project

[LEGION]

Oh yes, I even have that mission here on my harddrive, along with 279 other missions, and I only played, say, 16 of them. I know other missions that I haven´t played, but the Chain Project was new to me.

Edited September 20, 2010 by LEGION

[demagogue]

Well I like it, but you can probably already guess why if you read my previous posts.

[SneaksieDave]

I like the idea of a beauty contest for a few reasons:

* beauty! it's fun to look at, duh (I think Requiem for a Thief has a permanent place burned into my memory)

* reveals what can be done with TDM (particularly beneficial early in release)

* challenges mappers to come up with clever tricks and techniques for said goal

* new assets!

* maybe it'll even lure some DromEd vets to jump in?

 

The question, IMO:

* at this point in time, can the community adequately meet the challenge? (that's sure to ruffle a few feathers, but depending on how high the bar is set, it is a legit question (also doesn't hurt to taunt ego a bit ) -- e.g., is the model set, texture set, etc., enough to get the job done? Is the community expertise with patches etc., mature enough? Might just need a yearly beauty contest...)

 

 

Then again I also hope for Halloween and Xmas contests.

[Baddcog]

I think several mappers have shown themselves to being VERY adept at making beautiful architecture.

 

In fact I think all the last contest missions had at least areas in them that were very pleasing to looks at. Komag's was probably the least 'detailed' and yet it was still a joy to behold imo. It was probably the only mission that I actually just 'stood and looked around and marveled at'. (Not that I didn't study all of them visually).

 

So the old saying 'Eye of the Beholder' rings true. And beauty in a TDM mission doesn't mean a huge fancy decor mansion, it can just as well mean crypt, forest, a slum...

 

And I don't think the models/textures have much to do with it. It's 'how beautiful of a mission can you make with TDM 1.02' (and anything custom you wish to add).

Not how beautiful you could make a mission IF TDM was the most beautiful game on the market.

 

And patches aren't that hard, once you know the basics it's easy to expand on that. But I think a very beautiful mission could be made soley with brushes too.

 

And of course there'd be a bit of throwing optimization out the window. Some of the T2 missions weren't the best performers, but it was about detail moreso than playability/fps. (Not to say you can't have both)

[SneaksieDave]

And how great it would be to have them (and more hopefully) duke it out to prove it!

 

<taunt taunt taunt>

[nbohr1more]

A beauty contest sits well with me.

 

Hopefully all the big-guns would participate.

[demagogue]

I'm cool with it, though it's not exactly my forte. I entered the T2 beauty contest and the only reason I got even one vote was because I asked my girlfriend to vote for me and I was too proud to vote for myself.

[Sotha]

I'm cool with it, though it's not exactly my forte. I entered the T2 beauty contest and the only reason I got even one vote was because I asked my girlfriend to vote for me and I was too proud to vote for myself.

 

I'll vote for (yeah, you guessed it!) gameplay over beauty. I'm more interested in playing good missions rather than beautiful ones.

 

However, I don't mind having a gorgeous map with good gameplay and good performance.

 

A beauty contest will, I fear, lead to other features getting stomped by beauty and we'll have mediocre or choppy maps with good visuals.

It would be shameful if there was the great injustice of a great gameplay mission losing to a beautiful but mediocre one!

 

My heart truly bled when I played the Caduceus of St. Alban. It looked fantastic, but gameplay and story missed the mark, unfortunately. With that area covered it would have been a killer mission instead of a good one.

 

True beauty lies within. Or that's what ugly people say...