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Fan Mission: St Alban's Cathedral (01/11/2010)


Bikerdude

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Finally finished.

 

Pros: Beautiful architecture. The cathedral was gorgeous, as were the crypts. The city section was also very well done. Even the sewers looked great, as Tels mentioned. I noticed a few minor misalignments and z-fighting, but in general everything looked great. The bobbing of the boat was awesome, and made me just stop and watch for a few moments. This map is quite possibly the most beautiful TDM mission to date.

 

Lots of freedom. The city area had tons of different ways to get around, with lots of variety. You could explore for ages and still find new things.

 

Good use of ambient noise. Fun loot placement.

 

Cons: I think the cathedral clues were far too difficult. I got stuck too often, without any clear sense of where I was supposed to be going. I think there should have been more opportunity to find helpful clues. Old maps, old construction records, histories of St. Alban...all of those could have helped spread out the clues and would have given the player some other interesting things to read.

 

Flat story. There wasn't much to read throughout, and what there was had very little to do with the whole discovery of the skeleton that is supposed to be the focus of the story. I was left with a lot of questions: how did the Mage who hired me know the Builders had discovered the bones? From everything that happened in the cathedral, it seemed like the

Priest still didn't know where they were (his note said he was going to put the ladder up tomorrow). And the falling plaque also suggests they hadn't been down yet.

How is it the location of the bones were lost in the first place? Why had no one ever noticed the

(quite visible) plaque and lever on the roof

before? The whole thing just didn't make sense to me.

 

And what was the deal with framing the inventor? How would the Builders even know the bones

from the secret crypt

were gone? Why would they automatically assume the skull I left in the inventor's room (and where did I get that, anyway?) was from a saint? That part didn't make sense either.

 

Also, what was up with the

ghost? An armed ghost is walking around

the crypts just on the other side of the door from a regular guard? Wasn't this unusual? You could even see and hear him from down in the sewers. I found it odd that there was no information about him.

 

Sadly, I just wasn't drawn into the story at all, and was left with more questions than answers. :(

 

I can overlook the lack of story in a mission if the gameplay is interesting. Others have mentioned the lack of AI, and I have to agree. The cathedral was beautiful, but I never felt very challenged there. Even the ghost was so predictable that he became more of a nuisance than anything else. Even if it's true that no more AI could be added to the cathedral proper, I would have at least had the priest patrolling, rather than having a stairway leading right up to blackjack him. There also could have been more AI in the rooms above and below.

 

Technical sound issues. I'm sure this was a tricky mission to visportal, but I had a lot of problem with AI sound. The footsetps of AI seemed to come from everywhere. I heard the

ghost loud and clear from the sewers,

and often heard footsteps that sounded very close even though there were no AI nearby.

 

This definitely is a beautiful mission, and a technical marvel. With a little more attention to story and gameplay elements, it could be a true masterpiece.

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I was left with a lot of questions: how did the Mage who hired me know the Builders had discovered the bones? From everything that happened in the cathedral, it seemed like the

Priest still didn't know where they were (his note said he was going to put the ladder up tomorrow). And the falling plaque also suggests they hadn't been down yet.

How is it the location of the bones were lost in the first place? Why had no one ever noticed the

(quite visible) plaque and lever on the roof

before? The whole thing just didn't make sense to me.

 

And what was the deal with framing the inventor? How would the Builders even know the bones

from the secret crypt

were gone? Why would they automatically assume the skull I left in the inventor's room (and where did I get that, anyway?) was from a saint? That part didn't make sense either.

 

good questions regarding the story. there was a lot overwritten and never accounted for in the released incarnation of the FM. I have most of it written down on paper. The original version of the FM was that the story revolves more around the Caduceus of St. Alban than the bones of this particular mission. This seems to have been a miscommunication, as biker wants the series to be more about st. alban himself, rather than his caduceus.

 

first question: don't have an answer for that. maybe it was a headline in the papers: "builders find amazing discovery", i didn't think the "how" there was really that important. They're mages. they know stuff.

 

correct. The builders do not at the time of the FM know exactly where the bones are. they found a clue to the final resting place, and are just starting the active search. your job is to get in and find them before they do.

 

Regarding how the bones were lost: in the original story draft, the crypt with st. albans tomb is in a long-buried and built over ancient city (old bridgeport). A fire burnt down the original cathedral and surrounding neighborhoods, and was eventually built over. Due to burnout and already huge map size, the undergound city was scrapped the crypt placed inside the cathedral itself. The 'hidden' nature of the tomb was revised to be that it was a well-hidden room known only to a select few higher ups at the time of st. albans death, and long forgotten since.

 

 

the plaque and valve on the ceiling were placed on the ceiling for the exact reason that noone should of noticed it before now. its hidden in plain sight, but if you go down to the ground floor and look up, you're not gonna see it. This is evidenced by the fact that a lot of people had trouble finding it already.

 

 

 

it is assumed that Builders are not completely dumb. If the head priest put out orders to search the ceiling the next day, they were going to find that plaque the next day. they could then figure out the next clue, head to the C-R-Y-P-T, see the removed stone with the switch and plaque uncovered above the door, find the secret tomb entrance, and head down there, and find the bones gone. who took them? how about that suspicious inventor guy? upon search of his room, look at that, theres the skull.

 

 

Also, my story idea was that the death of St. Alban was unique in a way that damaged his skull in a particular fashion that would be shown on the fake and real skulls. About the fake skull, there were some briefing cut-outs, and I think that bit may have been part of it. The mage was supposed to give you that fake skull for the job, as framing the inventors guild was the hermetic orders idea in the first place.

 

the rest of your questions/comments have not much to do with my end of things.

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Actually I didn't want to change them, your quirks and British colloquialisms (slang, etc) make for an entertaining and interesting read. Serpentine corrected enough of your language to make it readable for a worldwide internet audience :laugh:

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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Alrighty Biker, I'll fix up some more of your grammar when I upload your maps. (I am trying to milk as much promotion from each FM release as possible ;) )

 

Edit:

 

I fixed some grammar... I am surprised it let me change it so quickly (much longer to post there...)

Edited by nbohr1more

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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Sadly, I just wasn't drawn into the story at all, and was left with more questions than answers. :(

 

With only the bits so far that I have played, I also have got a lot of questins about the story, but I assumed they were answered later. Maybe the revised version of that FM can just add a few more readables?

 

Technical sound issues. I'm sure this was a tricky mission to visportal, but I had a lot of problem with AI sound. The footsetps of AI seemed to come from everywhere. I heard the

ghost loud and clear from the sewers,

and

 

That is ok, because the door from the C. to the S. is a grate, and there is another vent down, too, so you should be able to hear it from down there.

 

This definitely is a beautiful mission, and a technical marvel. With a little more attention to story and gameplay elements, it could be a true masterpiece.

 

I concur, even in the crypt I was quite unsure what to do actually there. A few readables here and there would have added more depth.

 

(I guess if that is the only thing we find "lacking", it is really a good FM. Underwritten, the ever unsatisfied player :D

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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That is ok, because the door from the C. to the S. is a grate, and there is another vent down, too, so you should be able to hear it from down there.

 

It wasn't just coming from the vent though, it was audible very clearly from several places in the sewers. I actually thought

the ghost was down

there.

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It wasn't just coming from the vent though, it was audible very clearly from several places in the sewers. I actually thought

the ghost was down

there.

 

I guess that was the intended effect :) The

crypt has multiple vents all going into the sewer

. I am not saying there might be a missing (maybe non-working) portal, but for me the effect was easily swallowed as there were many inaccessible vents going up.

 

 

 

Speaking of that, there is a rectangular vent that ends in a circular hole, it gets you a back to the city, but I cannot climb the circular section, and the door on top of it does not open nor is it pickable. Is that supposed that way? noclip shows you emerge at the starting area...

 

 

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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If we can make our mmodb area a place with as much thriving content as TDM forums/wiki, we're sure to pick up some new players/talent sooner or later.

 

There have already been 40 downloads of 1.02 from moddb in the two days since it was posted, so it looks like it's well worth the effort to keep updating that page.

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(I wonder if I'm allowed to brag about the traffic figures... I knew Biker's FM would be a draw... ;) )

 

I already bragged at the internal forum :)

 

Now if we can continue to post truly interesting news and articles (not just fluff like every new screenshot some other mods do), we will not only draw new people in, but keep the readers we already have.

 

I imagine some of our coders, animators etc could also provide you with technical articles (how we faced and solved problem X)?

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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Hrmm, even though it's not entirely practical that Arcturus Normal Mapping article is interesting to look at and read...

 

(I was already thinking of linking Komag's Dark Radiant tutorials...) ;)

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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there is a rectangular vent that ends in a circular hole, it gets you a back to the city, but I cannot climb the circular section, and the door on top of it does not open nor is it pickable. Is that supposed that way? noclip shows you emerge at the starting area...

 

 

 

 

You can get back to the start the same way you got out, pick the sewer cover from above then drop on down. I don't think the developer had time or the notion that you might want to return.

 

Edited by pmw57
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Thank you very much, Bikerdude. It was a nice mission to see.

 

However I have to admit that used noclip quite a lot, otherwise dumb me would not have been able to end this mission:

 

  • First, I didn't recognize the police station. I thought it was a normal building. I ran around looking for a police station or a sign saying "this is the police station". In addition, my monitor was obviously to dark. Once I was in the right building I just missed the important rooms.
  • I didn't recognize the frobbable windows. They look just like every other window, which is too less a hint for me. I noclipped in there and found the entrance backwards. So to speak.
  • Loot is too well hidden. It was no fun to turn _every_ room upside down. Some notes "I hope no one finds my secret gold" would have helped for me.
  • The cathedral: Without the forum I would have NEVER found the lever on the ceiling neither what it does. That was the point I started noclipping around as I thought "okay I'm too bloody stupid to end this mission on my own so what" which of course made me depressed.
  • The market: I had to noclip there and even now I don't know how to enter this place without cheating.

BUT: the Architecture is great. Sometimes I just stopped a watched the walls and ceilings and streets. So beautiful! I will definitely play that mission again (without cheating, of course). But if you would take a hint from me: Please make missions for really dumb people (like me). It's much more rewarding to say "oh, that was a bit easy". Thank you!

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