Jump to content
The Dark Mod Forums

Your very favourite thing about all thief games and TDM


Mr Lemony Fresh

Recommended Posts

Hello, thought this'd be a fun subject.

 

What is your favourite feature about theif 1/2/3 and it's fan missions and TDM fan missions, excluding the stock standard things like being able to hide in the dark ;)

 

Your allowed to have multiple favourite things too.

 

I'll start off. One of my favourite things is how scenary is sometimes made from treasure, like when you pick gem eyes from statues or like in thief 1 where to explore the ruins and take the blue gems from the palace walls. There's something quite satisfying about destroying things by taking large valuable chunks of it away I think :)

 

btw, sorry in advance if this kind of thread has already been done :D

18588.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What a nice topic, no need to apologize, in my opinion.

 

Basically people can see the aspects I love in sneaking games in my maps, I try to distill the experience to revolve around my favourite things.

 

The things I like, are:

The joy of sneaking past guards.

Frantic lockpicking at well lit door before the guard comes.

Locations telling a story.

Opportunities for clever use of equipment.

Freedom to explore the location freely.

Freedom to make decisions how to proceed. Decisions with consequences.

 

I hate:

Looking for keys or any other kind of artificial obstacle which grinds the mission to a halt or requires forum aid.

 

OT: what is with the internets-thing in you signature? Whats that about?

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For me, Number One is a sense of presence, of 'being there'. This is different to immersion (though probably relies on it) and hard to define. It comes rarely in fleeting moments probably because if you become aware of being aware of it then it tends to dissipate (In sports, they say the same about being in the zone.) I'm not sure it ever occurs in movies no matter how immersive - perhaps because there is no interaction or control.

 

I suspect that most players who race through hacking and slaying in most games never experience it. It is an intimate sense of touching; of being in the place. Often triggered by a combination of decent visuals (not necessarily the conventional very best) and often sounds. Included in the visuals might be subtle animations. Relatively quiet little corners typify the places for this experience. Nostalgia or familarity might also play a part. A dusty old unlit room in a Victorian house and a sudden creaking sound through a doorway is more likely to evoke this sensation than a great temple or arena for example.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hiding in the darkness while the guards search for me. That is one of the essential thrills of this game. Even if it isn't quite eye-candy, the following screen-shot from Sotha perfectly sums up the experience. This screen is a perfect mascot for the mod:

 

Knighton_Release_5.png

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The atmosphere. Period.

 

The Thief games and TDM sports the best atmosphere I've ever seen, nay, experienced in any game. That, and I'm sort of obsessed with steampunk/"steam-fantasy".

 

That and the "forbidden" feeling I get from skulking about where I shouldn't be. ;)

But the most significant weight I can feel is the atmosphere, 'nuff said. :D

 

Awesome topic btw! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OT: what is with the internets-thing in you signature? Whats that about?

 

Lol it's just for fun :) have you ever heard someone say 'you sir, win the internet'? It's so that people who say that can indeed be able to give you an internet, and you can check the rank on the site to see how many internets you have compared to everyone else. :)

18588.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I loooove the stealth aspect. Having spent so many years with Doom/Quake etc., I was smitten with the sense of solitude and quiet that pervades Thief.

 

Being where you shouldn't be, hiding in the dark, leaping from one roof to another, walking along ceiling beams with guards below.

 

All of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find the most important thing for me in a game like Thief/TDM is that it is a personal experience.

 

The games everyone enjoys most are the ones that people seldom talk about, seldom will you explain the story to someone that hasn't played it or talk about it with people during your play-through. You don't recommend a book to a friend and then blab off about the plot, characters and everything else... but for most games that's exactly what marketing, hype and forced interest do. The less preconceived ideas I have of a game and the more I can learn by exploring(with some risk) and thinking, the richer and more personal that experience is for me; "pleasantly surprised" is all too often mistaken for some contrived plot twist. Plot comes from the interpreted narrative, but plot should not tell "the story" in a finite and exacting manner.

 

  • A good amount of freedom, but not barren sandboxyness for the sake of freedom.
  • Places to just watch from, feeling smug (but still have a little risk)
  • A pace which when played correctly, you can control mostly (but allows for some mayhem, accidents, surprises).
  • Not a linear progression where there's only empty areas behind you (aka dont/cant/wont kill/KO all AI)
  • AI which is balanced to not be annoying
  • A reason to want, a reason to hide (both of which exclude sudden absent love interest plots)
  • Weapons that differ in utility and allow more than simple binary control (bow pullback strenth on all arrows is :wub: )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is an intimate sense of touching; of being in the place.

 

oh ya, I think i know what you mean, heh :laugh: /legionpost

 

for me, its about being unseen to the eye and looting the lootz. 3rd person kills it because i'm watching it happen, not doing it, plus the "cheating" around corners aspect. I'm there. Theres people. They don't know I'm there. I know they are there. They have lootz. I don't. I want the lootz. I take it. They didn't see me do it, you didn't see me do it, you can't prove anything. Rent paid, noone is the wiser. <3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I loooove the stealth aspect. Having spent so many years with Doom/Quake etc., I was smitten with the sense of solitude and quiet that pervades Thief.

 

Being where you shouldn't be, hiding in the dark, leaping from one roof to another, walking along ceiling beams with guards below.

 

All of it.

 

But I mean, aren't there things you can say that only a select few missions have mastered/achieved in terms of fulfilling gameplay?

18588.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hiding in the darkness while the guards search for me. That is one of the essential thrills of this game. Even if it isn't quite eye-candy, the following screen-shot from Sotha perfectly sums up the experience. This screen is a perfect mascot for the mod:

 

did you play in original thief games ?

Proceed with caution!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also still like the feeling of being in a shadow as a guard walks right by you, that little tense moment where you hope he doesn't see you, and as soon as he passes you have to run down the hall into another room before he turns around to walk back. Just playing yesterday I noticed it; still a little thrill after all these years. It's a simple thing but better than any mechanic where the AI instantly sees you and there's no ambiguity what to do.

 

I recall reading some early LGS design doc or something on Thief and they talked about making an anti-FPS where you're rewarded for *not* fighting, and also the openness of the levels which is (unfortunately) still ahead of its time. Even a lot of "open" games these days are still linear in how you can actually approach it.

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

they talked about making an anti-FPS where you're rewarded for *not* fighting

 

This sentence captures well the fundamental charm of sneaking games. The AI's should be more powerful than the player, and this improves the excitement in avoiding the AI. "If they spot me I must escape, if I can't escape, I'll get my ass handed to me on a platter."

 

For me, save/loading dilutes this excitement a lot during the mission and that's why I try to avoid it: I allow myself a few 'checkpoint' saves during a FM. I wish TDM AI was more difficult to beat in swordplay (think about it: the player has a tiny shortsword vs. typical guards longsword). Yeah, I know I should disable the auto-parry option, but I am too wimpy to do that.:P

 

Does the guards wielding a longsword have longer attack range than the player, by the way?

 

When Doom3 came out and I played it through my thoughts were:

How much more cool this would have been if the demons were really so tough that the player would fight them only when well prepared and even then as a last resort.

 

I guess that's the evolution of gaming:

Back in the days of pacman the player could only run away from the superior bad dudes and only seldom fight back.

Todays gaming makes the player an über hercules who can easily and constantly kill hundreds of onrushing well armed bad guys (crysis).

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah I often give myself the rule to only save when nothing is going on, not while AI are walking around and definitely not while they're in pursuit. Half the game IMO is dealing with the consequences of being seen.

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's funny you guys are mentioning the ethics of "saving". I just read a Hexen Mod review where the poster griped that "modern gamers" shouldn't have to spam the quick-save button but instead the game should keep saving at every fraction of progress. Given the complexity of getting a game-save system right in the Doom 3 SDK, that was a lot of gall for someone to spit on a 6 year project over their own laziness and inability to choose wise save points.

 

I try not to save very much as it just feels wrong to someone who spent his youth replaying levels in 8 bit arcade and console games. Having to play the level again was your punishment for not doing well. The best games were so much fun that you didn't mind the redundancy.

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know it might be contrary to what many feel are the "correct" way to play, but my favorite thing is making ridiculous getaways with a conga-line of guards chasing me. yes, I also enjoy sneaking through undetected, and whatnot, but there is very little that satisfies me more than spending a couple minutes with half a dozen guards close on my tail, until I finally scamper onto a balcony, and rope arrow my way up the wall and leap in an attic window and tuck away out of sight. so much fun!

Milestones approaching:

Recital: 3-24-12

ToughMudder: 4-15-12

Release first FM: ?-?-20??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's funny you guys are mentioning the ethics of "saving". I just read a Hexen Mod review where the poster griped that "modern gamers" shouldn't have to spam the quick-save button but instead the game should keep saving at every fraction of progress. Given the complexity of getting a game-save system right in the Doom 3 SDK, that was a lot of gall for someone to spit on a 6 year project over their own laziness and inability to choose wise save points.

 

I try not to save very much as it just feels wrong to someone who spent his youth replaying levels in 8 bit arcade and console games. Having to play the level again was your punishment for not doing well. The best games were so much fun that you didn't mind the redundancy.

 

This saving thing is quite opinion splitter, I think.

Overusing it dilutes the excitement. I bought the Hitman ultimate contract pack, which contains all the games of the series. I loved and hated the fact Hitman1 allowed absolutely no saves. I hated it because it was really easy to screw up and then have to replay the whole mission. But then again I remember my heart rate and the excitement, when you are doing fine and approaching the end of the mission.

 

This week I played Left 4 Dead 2 with my buddies on a more difficult setting than we are used to. All my pals got downed and I was badly wounded, moving at crawl speed. Going back to help my buddies would have been suicide, so I simply left them to die and tried to crawl to the safe room knowing that dying would mean starting all over again. Success would allow us to get to the next map, plus everyone is resurrected. I just barely made it to the safe room, but the feeling of crawling, one hit kills you, desperation... I was ecstatic when I reached the room and moving there my heart rate was probably dangerously high. Add a quicksave there, and it wouldn't have been so fun and exciting.

 

Saving option is needed, of course, because games will crash occasionally. It is up to the player to know when to save, but everyone should at least try sometimes play an ironman game with minimal/none saves. It really brings the experience to the next level. Of course playing it ironman will mean that you cannot play the game the way you've used to: you have to be much more cautious and clever, which only makes it even more interesting.

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my opinion, 'Amnesia' had it right... I like the fact that you didn't have to be a slave to the game, you could quit at regular intervals and come back to where you were, but you couldn't just save anywhere and keep playing which created tension. So only when you were not under pressure could you save - but i strongly doubt this would be effective in TDM seeing as you've got bugs and what not to contend with, and where you can go is a bit less linear in TDM which is another thing.

 

Anyway, another thing I like in thief style games is when the level is tightly woven, so that exploring feels more organic and aesthetically interesting, like a night in rocksburg

Edited by Mr Lemony Fresh
18588.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

About the save thing I am for absolute freedom: in single player games nothing is really important. It just you and the game and you can play as you want. Some people like to ghost missions and restart in case of error, others like me like 0-kills play (A part few levels against monsters in Thief 1, I hardly ever used the sword) but I reload in case of error... it does not matter if you like it or not. I just like playing this way. Since it is SP I should not bother anyone. About what I like, as Fidcal said it is the feeling of being there. In general I like shot-and-up games, but only in Thief and TDM I really felt like inside the game instead of outside guiding a stranger. Another thing I liked in the original Thief was the over-arching story, but this is lost in TDM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recent Status Updates

    • Petike the Taffer  »  DeTeEff

      I've updated the articles for your FMs and your author category at the wiki. Your newer nickname (DeTeEff) now comes first, and the one in parentheses is your older nickname (Fieldmedic). Just to avoid confusing people who played your FMs years ago and remember your older nickname. I've added a wiki article for your latest FM, Who Watches the Watcher?, as part of my current updating efforts. Unless I overlooked something, you have five different FMs so far.
      · 0 replies
    • Petike the Taffer

      I've finally managed to log in to The Dark Mod Wiki. I'm back in the saddle and before the holidays start in full, I'll be adding a few new FM articles and doing other updates. Written in Stone is already done.
      · 4 replies
    • nbohr1more

      TDM 15th Anniversary Contest is now active! Please declare your participation: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22413-the-dark-mod-15th-anniversary-contest-entry-thread/
       
      · 0 replies
    • JackFarmer

      @TheUnbeholden
      You cannot receive PMs. Could you please be so kind and check your mailbox if it is full (or maybe you switched off the function)?
      · 1 reply
    • OrbWeaver

      I like the new frob highlight but it would nice if it was less "flickery" while moving over objects (especially barred metal doors).
      · 4 replies
×
×
  • Create New...