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Ocn's questions on TDM editing.


ocn
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Also note that, when creating your first readables and using the readable editor for the first time, you might run into trouble. You get an error message, if you do not manually create a folder "xdata" under darkmod -folder.

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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adding on to sotha's last comment, make sure as hell that you use darkmod/xdata and not darkmod/mymission/xdata, or anything else, or hell will ensue. I'm hoping stifu has not been idle, and this is fixed in 1.03 along with all the other amazingness that is sure to be packed in there.

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Aaargh! I am totally not suited for this. I can't find a way to edit my lights. The in-game light editor is brilliant, but it won't save my changes. And applying new properties to a light source in Dark Radiant doesen't seem to work either.

 

I want smaller radiuses on torches... can someone help me, please.:(

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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Which version of DR do you have? I remember there was some kind of bug with radius of lights in one of the previous version. Try the latest version. If it still happens, considering you are new to DR you should tell what you are doing step by step.

 

DR version 1.4.0. I've placed a gothic wall torch. The radius is insanely large for my particular scene. I've tried to add the light radius property to the Entity tab and changed its values, but there are no changes in game.

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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Aaargh! I am totally not suited for this. I can't find a way to edit my lights. The in-game light editor is brilliant, but it won't save my changes. And applying new properties to a light source in Dark Radiant doesen't seem to work either.

 

I want smaller radiuses on torches... can someone help me, please.:(

 

Yeah, DR does not have good control over the combo-light-entities.

 

I always do my lights like this:

  • Insert a func_static model torch. Give it spawnarg noshadows 1. (You do not want the torch to cast unrealistic shadow)
  • Create entity -> lights/sources/torch (torch light or something).
  • Place your torchlight entity on the model. Remember that the flame is just where the red dot is in the entity. Adjust the light radius properties for the light. The light shines where the light radius box reaches in DR.

Later you can clone this entity+model thing everywhere. Be careful not to accidentally double clone these. I mean that there are two models and lights overlapping each other so that it looks like there is only one: a common beginner mistake, which ruins performance.

 

This gives you perfect control over your lights, but you will miss some fancy things like torch shadow-auto-toggling-when-torch-lit-or-not.

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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A shot of a generator room I'm working on.

 

I'd like to have electric lighting in close proximity to a generator flicker more than normal, but I can't seem to find that property. Closest I've come is the flicker sound property.

post-3566-129191557978_thumb.jpg

Edited by ocn

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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I've never tried to do this in TDM but I would suggest look at func_timer and get it to target the light. Look at the spawnargs maybe wait, delay, random, etc so it switches it on and off every fraction of a second I guess.

 

Do you also need to be able to turn the light on and off?

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I've never tried to do this in TDM but I would suggest look at func_timer and get it to target the light. Look at the spawnargs maybe wait, delay, random, etc so it switches it on and off every fraction of a second I guess.

 

Do you also need to be able to turn the light on and off?

 

No, I don't need to be able to switch the lights on and off in this particular instance, but it would be nice to have that ability further down the road. Anyway, this seems like to much of an undertaking for me at this point. But thanks. :)

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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nah its not anything special or difficult, you just need the right light texture. example: square_flicker, or biground1_strobe. those might not be right for your setting, but keep browsing.

 

The square_flicker series were quite suitable for this actually, almost perfect. I'll keep looking for others that might work... Thanks.

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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Yeah, DR does not have good control over the combo-light-entities.

 

I always do my lights like this:

  • Insert a func_static model torch. Give it spawnarg noshadows 1. (You do not want the torch to cast unrealistic shadow)
  • Create entity -> lights/sources/torch (torch light or something).
  • Place your torchlight entity on the model. Remember that the flame is just where the red dot is in the entity. Adjust the light radius properties for the light. The light shines where the light radius box reaches in DR.

Later you can clone this entity+model thing everywhere. Be careful not to accidentally double clone these. I mean that there are two models and lights overlapping each other so that it looks like there is only one: a common beginner mistake, which ruins performance.

 

This gives you perfect control over your lights, but you will miss some fancy things like torch shadow-auto-toggling-when-torch-lit-or-not.

 

Plus you do all the manual work that the combo light entities are there to avoid :( And your light holders have no script object, miss a few other spawnargs etc etc.

 

Instead you should:

 

* use the combo light entities

* pledge the DR developers to add outlines for the spawned light entities

 

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Combo_entities

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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Plus you do all the manual work that the combo light entities are there to avoid :( And your light holders have no script object, miss a few other spawnargs etc etc.

 

Instead you should:

 

* use the combo light entities

* pledge the DR developers to add outlines for the spawned light entities

 

http://modetwo.net/d...=Combo_entities

 

Some lights seem to have those nifty click and drag outlines, though. Why not all of them? How would one go about contacting the developers?

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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Some lights seem to have those nifty click and drag outlines, though. Why not all of them? How would one go about contacting the developers?

 

The "combo" entities are not "lights", instead they are entities that later spawn the light. DR does atm not know about this, and does not show the to-be-attached entities as outlines, and hence it is more complictated to "modify" these lights.

 

(To be fair, usually you shouldn't modify lights, anyway, because changing light color/radius can break player expectations f.i. on how bright a candle/torch is).

 

It is possible to change the to-be-attached light entities with spawnargs, the wiki article should give enough data on how to do this. If not, please complain to me so I can fix it :)

 

Contacting DR: We have a bug tracker: http://bugs.angua.at/my_view_page.php ATM I am not sure if the problem is already tracked there, I think it is but can't find the bug right now.

 

Edit: I think it is this one: http://bugs.angua.at/view.php?id=994 You could register on the bugtracker, and add your self as "watcher" for this bug, maybe this would show someone else except me wants this fixed :)

 

Edit #2: And here is a duplicate entry: http://bugs.angua.at/view.php?id=1709 Oops :)

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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(To be fair, usually you shouldn't modify lights, anyway, because changing light color/radius can break player expectations f.i. on how bright a candle/torch is).

 

 

 

I agree. And it is not my intention to question the settings the developers of TDM have deemed appropriate. But in some instances it might important (at least I think so) for the telling of the story to modify the defaults to some degree.

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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One workaround is to place an ordinary temporary light. Drag it out how you like. Give it the _color property and values you want. Test it illuminates the area how you want.

 

Then create one of the combos and give it the properties:

 

set _color on flame

set light_radius on flame

 

Then copy over the values from your temporary light which you can then delete or stick in a spare room to re-use over and over.

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I agree. And it is not my intention to question the settings the developers of TDM have deemed appropriate. But in some instances it might important (at least I think so) for the telling of the story to modify the defaults to some degree.

 

Yes, matching the light color or radius slightly to your environment is wise, so for instance that the light falloff edge coincidences with a wall and creates a pattern there. I just meant you shouldn't modify the too much, so that f.i. a candle is twice as bright as a torch, or a torch is dim as a candle.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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(To be fair, usually you shouldn't modify lights, anyway, because changing light color/radius can break player expectations f.i. on how bright a candle/torch is).

 

Modifying lights (particularly the colour, but the radius as well) is one of the primary artistic tools mappers have to give their maps the appearance that they want. "Player expectations" are irrelevant when the player can simply look and see how bright a light is.

 

Obviously you don't want to do something silly like have a candle bright enough to light up an entire house, but telling mappers not to modify lights is like telling them not to modify textures with decals.

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Modifying lights (particularly the colour, but the radius as well) is one of the primary artistic tools mappers have to give their maps the appearance that they want.

 

Agreed, but I have an additional comment.

 

It is not only about artistic side, but gameplay as well. The genre is all about light placement! It is the fundamental thing everything boils down to.

 

Therefore it is imperative that the mapper has perfect (and no less) control over lights. It is not about placing generic lights with generic radius, but each light is unique and adjusted to perfectly fill its artistic AND gameplay purpose. And performance plays a role as well, sometimes one big well thought and well placed light is needed.

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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Modifying lights (particularly the colour, but the radius as well) is one of the primary artistic tools mappers have to give their maps the appearance that they want. "Player expectations" are irrelevant when the player can simply look and see how bright a light is.

 

Obviously you don't want to do something silly like have a candle bright enough to light up an entire house, but telling mappers not to modify lights is like telling them not to modify textures with decals.

 

The "problem" with lights, however, is that in real world, there is only one parameter: brightness (and color, but lets ignore that for now). That also modified the radius the light reaches, and (via reflection from walls/objects) how lit a particular scene is.

 

In TDM, we have two parameters, color temperature (which also amounts to a fair degree for brightness) AND radius. It is perfectly possible to create a candle that "looks bright", but has a small radius and to create a candle that "looks dim" and has a huge radius. (A red light source for instance is in TDM only 2/3 as bright as a full white light source, so by adjusting the color, you also adjust the brightness by accident. However, the radius actually determines how lit the player is X meters from the light source, not the color!)

 

The player needs some basic expectations that when he encounters a candle, how far he can close up until he will be lit, liekwise for torches etc. If all you do is atune the light color and radius for our lights util the map "look" fantastically, you might end up with the effect that there is a nice torch, but it doesn't light up the player at all (because the light color is bright, but the radius is small).

 

Therefore I am on the side that a mapper might be able to modify the lights, but he *shouldn't have to adjust every freaking light* (for the work load alone), and he *shouldn't mess with the fundamental relationship of lights* (like candles being less bright than torches etc.)

 

In any event, this discussion is mostly moot, because mappers can adjust all parameters just fine, it is just more complicated for the combo entities.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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What do you supposed these lines could be? I've tried moving things around, but they won't disappear. It's not too big of a deal, I'm just wondering what the reason might be.

post-3566-12920148494_thumb.jpg

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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