Questions regarding The TDM universe

[ocn]

Currently I'm just wondering if there is a recognised time reckoning system I should conform to. I'm assuming that our months (january-december) still apply, but what about years? Is there a historyline of events one should know about?

[Springheel]

Numerous missions have established that the Julian calendar is used. St. Lucia established 1565 as a date that a still-living Archbishop was active, so the date of most FMs is probably anywhere between 1570 and 1620.

 

Be sure to read through the wiki Universe section for lots of useful information about the setting. http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Universe

[Aprilsister]

Also, if you don't mind my saying, feel free to break free of the universe and create your own. Or not. I love the notion that either approach can be taken.

 

And, while I mean it when I say I like the idea of trying to have a coherent canonical universe, it will still be, I'm sure as fluid and murky as histories, even real histories, sometimes tend to be. But, if it is the canonical you are going for I would say Springheel is de facto according to me at leasto the nominated and elected authority. So you got the best info first there.

 

Also, btw, if the above Eliz-ish is the date and place range I think Nooslak's new venture into hats and headgear is an excellent direction to take; some of those elaborate pointies and such for the ladies!

[ocn]

I'll definitely create some place of my own to establish my own storylines. But already established places might be referenced in readables etc. And I was looking for a record of historical dates if one existed. I would like to avoid having one of my hotel guests write to his aunt and uncle in a part of Bridgeport that was in total ruin after the raging fire of XXXX, for instance.

[pusianka]

Ehm I never thought that you guys changed the setting in the darkmod... I mean I knew that we re not playin gareth anymore but besides that I was pretty sure that I am encountering Hammerites and the other classes(pagans and KEEPERS) will show up just when they'll be created. I thought that we're still running around the same city(or the outskirts) just invisioned by the TDM team. I thought that this is pretty much what people liked about the thief series - The Setting!

 

I am personally working hard on the continuation of the storyline of gareths adventures. I have studied the first two parts of the game by watching cutscenes and parts of missions(I never played the first two parts - SHAME ON ME!) I did finish the third part of the game a few times- one my favourite games. I actually have some problems with understanding the fans who disliked the third part. It is technically totally different - that's true but the storyline is still very consistant in all parts. I see that it was all made like that:

 

Thief 1 - pagans destroy the world

Thief 2 - hammerites destroy the world

Thief 3 - keepers destroy the world

 

this of course is a very very easy version of it. But this was the main of it. Every side had it's golden time to show their power. This way we've learned about all the factions as much as it was possible. We got deep into their philosophy and way of thinking. It turns out that every person has it's bad and good sides. None of the factions is clean and always on the good side. Even gareth is a character who as a person is a criminal. You can't say that these guys are "white characters" and these are "black characters" and that's the best thing to do. It makes the whole storyline dynamic and twisted - you can't say what will happen next!

 

Now coming back to my "game continuation" plan I've been thinking hard what could be done afterwards. Actually the ending of the last part of the game is one of those which are for me an obvious end of the series. Even tho people say "ah he has a perfect apprentice to take his place - the girl that acts the similar way that he did, ah there is a new beginning!" People! You do not take the beginning of the series and put it at the end to say that it will continue. No! It means that yea there is a person that will take his place because history likes to repeat itself but this is not anymore a material for the game! You do not continue tales like this because it's usually crap! You should leave it as it is to let people always think what could happen after. In literature it's called an "open ending(translation from polish: otwarte zakonczenie)" - it's up to reader to decide what might have happened.

 

Now the thing is that some stories seem to have bigger potential and the author is still ful of ideas to continue somehow(like e.g." Hobbit" and then the continuation "Lord of the rings" - this is a real phenomenon when it comes to the storyline) Thief has this potential in my opinion but I don't see people playing the little girl instead of gareth. I love the way the character was created and of course his voice means a lot in gameplay. I am a fan of stealth games but to be honest I don't think I would get sucked into the thief series without gareths character and voice acting. I really like e.g. Splinter Cell but I don't pay much attention to the main character or his voice. Sure he is also an icon of the game and sure he has some good lines but I can easly imagine someone else taking his place and saying new lines. Thief definetly is based on THE STORY, THE CHARACTER and THE CREEPY SETTING. Changing any of this, means a lot of fans leaving the community.

 

I can't get the same actor to do the voice acting but the two other factors can be still kept and that's WHAT I AM AIMING AT. It's not easy but I already came up with some ideas that(I hope...) will make people get totally sucked into the story.

 

Sorry if it went too much off topic. I just felt like I need to let it out.

Edited December 8, 2010 by pusianka

[Noisycricket]

I was wondering how people feel about the TDM universe mixing with the Lord of the Rings and the D&D universe. In my mind, the TDM and the Thief universe exist on the same planet as the LOTR and the D&D universes, but on different continents. So if someone put a dragon's lair in the bottom of a distant mountain range, or created an encounter with a beholder or a party of Ogres sitting around a fire (ring any bells?), i'd feel at home personally.

[Springheel]

I mean I knew that we re not playin gareth anymore but besides that I was pretty sure that I am encountering Hammerites and the other classes(pagans and KEEPERS) will show up just when they'll be created. I thought that we're still running around the same city(or the outskirts) just invisioned by the TDM team.

 

Nope. From the wiki:

 

"Disclaimer: Just to be clear, The Dark Mod does NOT take place in the same universe as the Looking Glass 'Thief' games. There are no Keepers, no Hammers, and no Garrett. That said, the settings of both The Dark Mod and Thief are based on a steampunk version of our own history, so there will be certain similarities. "

 

I am personally working hard on the continuation of the storyline of gareths adventures.

 

Great! Sounds like fun, though you have to avoid any IP infringement if you want us to recognize and host your mission.

 

I was wondering how people feel about the TDM universe mixing with the Lord of the Rings and the D&D universe. In my mind, the TDM and the Thief universe exist on the same planet as the LOTR and the D&D universes, but on different continents

 

That wouldn't work very well for a variety of reasons. The TDM setting is relatively "low fantasy". Unicorns, dragons, elves, and other high fantasy creatures don't fit the setting at all.

 

So if someone put a dragon's lair in the bottom of a distant mountain range, or created an encounter with a beholder or a party of Ogres sitting around a fire (ring any bells?), i'd feel at home personally.

 

I'd love to play some D&D style missions if someone had the time to create those kinds of assets. But it wouldn't be part of the official TDM setting.

[Aprilsister]

Do what thou wilst!

 

The sky isn't even the limit!

 

It's your world, inherit it!

 

(Also even the "official" universe is never really going to work perfectly -- FFS, did you see the thread on "is she a guard, a thief or something else?"... hilarious! If these simple and basically inconsequential questions are being "debated" do you imagine that the cats can be wrangled? )

 

...

I can do sommersaults around Jupiter if I feel like it. (Still hoping for the elusive Jupiter mission ).

[pusianka]

Nope. From the wiki:

 

"Disclaimer: Just to be clear, The Dark Mod does NOT take place in the same universe as the Looking Glass 'Thief' games. There are no Keepers, no Hammers, and no Garrett. That said, the settings of both The Dark Mod and Thief are based on a steampunk version of our own history, so there will be certain similarities. "

 

ehm when I was writing it I thought it's clear that I read the wiki universe . This just how I felt earlier. Being honest I don't get why you left pagans and hammers (builders... But god damn it there is no difference between them! Just the name!) and pushed keepers out of that beautiful triangle. The mages and necromancers this all sounds so ordinary and normal it makes the whole thing blend with other world motives like D&D( I was game master for some time... Ah good times) WoW and others. That's like a stub in the back when I saw this. I hope that this was just the first idea and it stay just because you didn't come up with some better solution(which is being searched for right now...) ... Right?

...

[Melan]

Someone ought to finally use TDM to recreate... Dark Camelot!

 

Additionally, while there are things TDM simply cannot officially do, and we should respect the team in that, there is nothing keeping level builders from exploring similar themes - of industrialisation vs. nature, secrecy vs. openness, crime vs. law and so on. And while it may be thought that mages and necromancers are an unoriginal concept, there is no reason not to make them complex and fascinating like LGS did.

[pusianka]

Someone ought to finally use TDM to recreate... Dark Camelot!

 

Additionally, while there are things TDM simply cannot officially do, and we should respect the team in that, there is nothing keeping level builders from exploring similar themes - of industrialisation vs. nature, SECRECY vs. OPENNESS, crime vs. law and so on. And while it may be thought that mages and necromancers are an unoriginal concept, there is no reason not to make them complex and fascinating like LGS did.

 

I just wanted to underline these words cause they reminded me of this:

 

"...cryptic notes, secret meetings - haven't you keepers outgrown this stuff yet?" - great line

[Springheel]

Being honest I don't get why you left pagans and hammers (builders... But god damn it there is no difference between them! Just the name!) and pushed keepers out of that beautiful triangle.

 

TDM pagans have little in common with Thief pagans. Builders are pretty similar to Hammerites, true, but that's because both of them are based heavily on medieval catholicism (or at least a caricature of it).

[pusianka]

TDM pagans have little in common with Thief pagans. Builders are pretty similar to Hammerites, true, but that's because both of them are based heavily on medieval catholicism (or at least a caricature of it).

 

first, I haven't seen any pagans so far so we'll see how different they are. Secondly you still didn't answer the main question ^^ why you got rid of the keepers or maybe those mages and necromancers are suppose to be sort of the keeper kind?

[Springheel]

first, I haven't seen any pagans so far so we'll see how different they are

 

Well, I was the one who created the current pagan character, composed the only existing pagan script and wrote the universe section on pagans...but I guess there's no reason to take my word for it.

 

Secondly you still didn't answer the main question ^^ why you got rid of the keepers or maybe those mages and necromancers are suppose to be sort of the keeper kind?

 

What exactly are the qualities of the "Keeper" faction in Thief? They are reclusive academics with magical powers who study history. That doesn't make them particularly special or interesting at all. The Hermetic Order of Bridgeport does the same thing. The only other thing Keepers had to distinguish them is their whole philosophy of "balance". That idea only works in a story that revolves around two diametrically opposing sides, and TDM doesn't make that presupposition.

[Fidcal]

The Keepers are exclusive to the Thief story whereas pagans and armed religious organizations and armed guards and city watch are generic and common to any fantasy game.

 

The Dark Mod universe is not a re-creation of the Thief universe (in fact cannot be) but is only inspired by it. It makes no sense to copy over Garrett and the Keepers which are copyright story exclusive to Thief.

[ungoliant]

Yep. i've been trying to add a "balance" factor and my "garrett style" character to act as intermediary in my mission/campaign when it/they finally gets released. But the balance is sheerly mundane political legal junk. and hence i needed to remove the setting from bridgeport. you can still do a lot with thief themes even without the specific factions we all know and love.