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New Thief Characters


Springheel

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Wow Springheel, we've only just had 1.03 and already the next update looks like it's going to be packed with thiefy goodness. smile.gif The mages should open up many new opportunities for FM makers.

 

Also a random idea: could some more experienced mages cast a light spell to assist him when he is looking for the player? Now there's a gameplay feature, which would keep the players on their toes near mages..

Now this is an excellent idea!

Mage: "Wast that a noise I heard? Illuminus Maximus!"

Thief: "Eeeep!"

 

I'm picturing an all-blue flame igniting in the palm of the mage's hand, and being held out towards the darkness like you would with a torch. cool.gif

Edited by Midnight
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These are good indeed - I am sure they will see a lot of use. :laugh:

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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Just let me insert here that I am not a big fan of magic in TDM at all. (E.g. you will not find it in any mission I would produce).

 

Edit: I love immersion, and magic is a big immersion breaker for me. I liked that in Thief there were some hints to magic, but not real magic use. Talk f witches, the devil etc would be very common in medival times, but real magic not so much. So I prefer it that way. End of edit.

 

So please don't go overboard with adding it. (Fixing a few of our hundred bugs first would also be preferable to me. What good is a half-working horse when we add a only-half-working mage?) But I digres.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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I'm seeing a round white hazy sphere also held up like a torch. We already have such halos for torches etc. so easy to do. I'd like to see this happen on alerts. On low alert he raises his hand and the sphere lights up his area like a torch while he searches. Maybe that same sphere of light can be the source when he attacks and sends the flame bolts at the player.

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Does the mage have an own vocal set yet?

 

Unfortunately, no. That will have to wait until 1.05, though. I'd like to make a special vocal set for the thieves too.

 

Also a random idea: could some more experienced mages cast a light spell to assist him when he is looking for the player? Now there's a gameplay feature, which would keep the players on their toes near mages..

 

Yep, I already thought of that. :)

 

Fixing a few of our hundred bugs first would also be preferable to me. What good is a half-working horse when we add a only-half-working mage

 

I guess I should stop making new characters and learn coding so I can fix the horse then?

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The magical/mystical side of the original Thief was one of the details I really enjoyed. I know some folks don't want us to go overboard with it, but I sure hope we don't see it shoved completely out of the way. TDM is already more mechanical than magical, and I think it could stand to have some of that magical/mystical charm.

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I'm not sure how much I'd like a strong magical presence in a thief-inspired universe either. Magic should sort of hover in the horizon and stay there to be rarely seen. How would the player thwart a light casting spell? A torch you can put out, but magic. Mages should have some extra "powers", yes, but should primarily be depicted as strong intellects in my book. I'd vote for the inclusion of powerful spellcasters for those who want that, and simple mages for those who'd like a more toned down magical presence. At least not have it be a standard behaviour to wield their shiny staffs at the first sign of trouble.

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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Mages are boss kinds of characters.

Also if their primary attack is ranged and they're vulnerable at melee distances then it's not so bad to have something to compensate, so a light orb makes sense; and it's not any *more* jarring than him already shooting magic missiles.

Anyway, like anything it should be tested a lot in-game to see how the gameplay goes.

 

I think of magic in the world as held by a privileged few, so you still see it rather rarely, but when you do it's memorable.

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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How would the player thwart a light casting spell?

 

Easy. Put a broadhead in the mages throat. Or simply sneak past silently in order to avoid giving the mage a reason to cast a light spell in the first place. Or if you don't like violence, just run away using a flashbomb and try again later when the dust has settled. Or use a noisemaker to lure the light wielding mage elsewhere. Or be a cheapscate and throw a moveable object to get the mage elsewhere, then escape.

 

It is good to have AI's who offer some more severe consequences for noisemaking players. Like witches in left for dead 2: you instantly change to a more cautious tactics when you hear the weeping. It keeps you on your toes and makes things more interesting.

 

Yep, I already thought of that. smile.gif

 

Very good. I am very interested in such an AI. My personal Porter setting is going to be slightly similar to Arcanum: technology is rising and magic is dwindling. Inventors are new and liberal, mages are old and conservative. And I love the idea of malfunctioning magic near technology and vice versa.

 

Also it would be weird to have no/very-low magic in TDM when simultaneously there are zombies and revenants marching about. But I do agree that mages certainly live in small secretive and cautious brotherhoods and secret societies, they do not want to get burned as witches like the Builders would probably want..B)

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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Easy. Put a broadhead in the mages throat.

 

"Yeah, here's a magic spell for 'ya!"

 

You have a point, certainly. I'm just wishing for a couple of less potent mages as well.

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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If we're going to have different ranked mages, there needs to be a visual cue in the models so players know what to expect.

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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If we're going to have different ranked mages, there needs to be a visual cue in the models so players know what to expect.

 

Medallions with some sort of occult symbol, saying watch out for this one.

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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I'm not a big fan of flashy, high-fantasy style mages either, but mages are well-established in the TDM universe as rare but powerful. There's also the fact that enemy AI have a limited number of options, in terms of gameplay, for what they can do to the player. Basically they can damage him (melee or missile), they can make it easier for others to detect him (carried lights) or they can disorient him (flashbombs or other weird effects).

 

I was actually toying with the idea of a mage who could summon simple demon-like creatures or elementals or something, but that has framerate implications and probably would need mapper support to work properly.

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I'll prove that I am not cutting down the idea by not coming up with anything better ATM... but this is perhaps an opportunity to come up with something (anything is possible in the digital wizard world) wholly new. The light orb thing is a bit pedestrian, no? And likewise for bolts of fire/shock... so maybe a bit more open to suggestions time for the community?

 

Anyway, I really am not meaning to be pointedly critical.

 

...

 

But if the consensus (or dictates ;) even) do go with the "light" casting, I would like to suggest a couple of game-balancing go-alongs:

 

  • There should be at least a spell-casting phase wherein the player will have a chance to see the mage "winding-up" his invocation. Some sort of seconds long animation that precedes the actual casting of the light. Give the player some chance of getting the hell hidden...
  • The duration of this spell should be limited, maybe very limited, maybe limited and "static-y" as well like strobe-ish / lighting-ish.

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Oh and as for setting the powerful mages apart from the lower ranks, I think this should be left to the mappers in general. Each sect or order as "created" by the FM author should have their own system; say these guys recognize their top mages simply by the fact that they lower ranks dress in dull red floor length robes while the higher ups trend towards purple and ever flowing (longer) robes... while these other guys use medallions as suggested to differentiate... and this newest sect use facial hair, hats, make-up or something...

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Actually, I don't agree that players should always know what to expect from mage characters. Part of the whole anxiety around magic is not knowing what magic-users are capable of, or what they might do next. Players should have the same uncertainty, IMO.

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Here's an idea to tinker with. Most NPC would try to lure the player out in the open with their lights and candles. What if mages join the player in the shadows by turning invisible. Now the player has to proceed blindfolded. There could be degrees of invisibility depending on certain factors.

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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Actually, I don't agree that players should always know what to expect from mage characters. Part of the whole anxiety around magic is not knowing what magic-users are capable of, or what they might do next. Players should have the same uncertainty, IMO.

 

One thing mages could do is randomly (when alerted) cast a "mini-fireball" that lights torches (and static candles). So they could turn on lights far away from them.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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It could be too difficult for the player to anticipate and avoid. I'd prefer the mage just lifts up a light when alert. In fact I've been thinking this might already be implemented with a guard carrying a lantern down at his side. The lantern could be normally very small radius and dim. If the guard goes on low alert he lifts it up to the torch position and its radius and brightness change to like a typical carried torch. The player can see the guard with the lantern so either keeps well away or is extra wary not to cause an alert.

 

I think the above could be done with two invisible low alert control objectives to call a script.

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The magical/mystical side of the original Thief was one of the details I really enjoyed. I know some folks don't want us to go overboard with it, but I sure hope we don't see it shoved completely out of the way. TDM is already more mechanical than magical, and I think it could stand to have some of that magical/mystical charm.

 

Totally agree, I like magic if its fitting and not overboard and not made to be a frivolous afterthought, like in The Force Unleashed or Bioshock (IMO).

 

I have a couple ideas for an animation to throw the fireball or whatever its going to be.

 

EDiT:Heres nice fireball side effect effect if any of you programmers want to add something interesting to the game.

 

@3:17

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I'd prefer the mage just lifts up a light when alert.

 

I'm already working on something like this. :)

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I'd prefer the mage just lifts up a light when alert.

 

I'm already working on something like this. :)

 

I have a couple ideas for an animation to throw the fireball or whatever its going to be.

 

Your throw animation already looks quite good, although if you wanted to do a version with a bit of 'spell casting' before hand, that would also be cool. :)

 

Stuff like you showed in the video is possible (and other interesting effects), but requires scripting.

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