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Aprilsister
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Yeah, I already modelled a 'multi faced' bot of this style. I thought I changed it up quite a bit, and I can't seem to find the pics I posted, have to dig more.

But at the time (along with the other 10 bot ideas I posted) everyone had some objection to one part or another.

 

---

The lantern bot concept was just something I thought of, whipped up and was generally well excepted by the team.

that started here and a bit of discussion of bots carries on for a few pages.

 

My main ideas were NOT having an exposed boiler/water arrows thing used in T2 (while I'm not opposed to that myself it is very T2).

Having him light up the player and make an alert sound to attract guards, he doesn't do damage. Much like the small bots in T2, they didn't have their own light source, but they could see you/hear you.

 

http://modetwo.net/d...post__p__111799

 

Animating is just like any character, great thing about Doom3 is no limit on rigs like T2. We use one rig for all characters to make it easy/inter changeable. But for AI like this they can have their own rig/anims.

Rigid bots are a great way to learn to rig, one bone per moving part, no need to have 'bendy' parts hat use several bones (like a human knee).

 

----------

a thread discussing bot concepts

 

http://modetwo.net/d.../page__hl__bots

 

And my multi face model

newbottm1.jpg

 

@Nosslak,

 

As far as the T2 bots go there were several kinds

 

1- Camera Bot, the one posted. Generally posted in a bright area (bank lobby) and they rotate. If they 'see' the player they stop rotating , the green thing turns red and they wait a sec (giving player a chance to hide), if player is hidden they cool down, bleep, turn green and rotate again (giving player a chance to sneak by). If the player is seen and they go alert they turn on the alarm OR another nearby stationary bot shoots a grenade at them (looks kind of like frog with human face).

The player can follow wires from camera to switch and turn off camera bot.

 

2- Combot , large 2 legged bot, shoots grenades from one arm. Patrols, has exposed boiler on back to shoot with water arrow. 7 feet tall

 

3-'sentry bot' patrols much like lantern bot. Looks like combot but waist high. no attack, just alerts guards.

 

4-human hybrid /guards, cherub...I don't think we want any thing even close to this. Was a whole t2 bad guy plot (sold as slaves, gassed nobles when activated)

Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

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imo even if you attempt one of these sentinels you should definitely not copy the Thief 2 one, not even partly both for copyright but mainly just to be different. Just take the concept of some kind of mechanical sentry that cannot move but can scan about and make something new.

 

In fact the lanternbot is a mobile version of this - like the little steambot in T2. So a scanner sentinel should be more like the lanternbot in style if anything.

 

T2 fan missions also include a "periscope camera" that otherwise operates the same as the mechanical faces. This can be seen in the vault in Mission X, and at the end of Part 1 of King's Story.

 

As far as the T2 bots go there were several kinds

 

There was also the spider bot, which was smaller and required 2 water arrows to be shot into the boiler.

 

http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/Spider_Bot

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I do hope you get to play T2 Nosslak -- so that you can have some great fun and take in some background from which to develop, maybe, some of the stuff that may fit in this whole new (but certainly inspired by...) world.

Yeah, inspiration was a big part of the reason for me wanting to play them, but I could barely get them to work so I just abandoned that.

 

So you say the original(s) crashed your system? You now system? Or your then system? Or 'tis as 'twas?

It crashed my current system. I'm not sure that I even bothered testing Thief 2 so that might work but from what I've understood they're using the same engine so I'll probably don't have much more luck there. I haven't tried Tafferpatcher so that might also work.

 

They would be automatic, and the less "magic" about them, the better.

Alright, I'll try to make it more mechanic then. I just found this image the other day and thought it looked awesome. I really didn't think I'd be able to work anything into the mod, but it just might serve as a great basis for a steampunk camera (I would basically re-design the whole thing and just keep a bunch of circular glass lenses).

 

Yeah, I already modelled a 'multi faced' bot of this style. I thought I changed it up quite a bit, and I can't seem to find the pics I posted, have to dig more.

But at the time (along with the other 10 bot ideas I posted) everyone had some objection to one part or another.

newbottm1.jpg

I really like the faces, but I don't really like the rest of the design so I can understand that it wasn't accepted (sorry but that's my opinion).

 

Animating is just like any character, great thing about Doom3 is no limit on rigs like T2. We use one rig for all characters to make it easy/inter changeable. But for AI like this they can have their own rig/anims.

Rigid bots are a great way to learn to rig, one bone per moving part, no need to have 'bendy' parts hat use several bones (like a human knee).

Yeah, I have made some rigs and small test animations (for organic models) so I know how to both rig and animate it's just that I don't have much experience doing it so I'm not so good at either of them (especially the animating).

 

1- Camera Bot, the one posted. Generally posted in a bright area (bank lobby) and they rotate. If they 'see' the player they stop rotating , the green thing turns red and they wait a sec (giving player a chance to hide), if player is hidden they cool down, bleep, turn green and rotate again (giving player a chance to sneak by). If the player is seen and they go alert they turn on the alarm OR another nearby stationary bot shoots a grenade at them (looks kind of like frog with human face).

The player can follow wires from camera to switch and turn off camera bot.

That sounds a lot like the cameras in Bioshock and that's part of the reason that I like the idea because I'd hardly have to do any animations. All/most animations/rotations would be codebased (I think).

 

2- Combot , large 2 legged bot, shoots grenades from one arm. Patrols, has exposed boiler on back to shoot with water arrow. 7 feet tall

 

3-'sentry bot' patrols much like lantern bot. Looks like combot but waist high. no attack, just alerts guards.

I think I'll at least start with the camera bot as it sounds like that would provide more unique gameplay than those others.

 

T2 fan missions also include a "periscope camera" that otherwise operates the same as the mechanical faces. This can be seen in the vault in Mission X, and at the end of Part 1 of King's Story.

I haven't played any of those missions so if you think they'd be helpful references please post pictures of them.

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No offense taken. It was just a quick mock up of shapes trying to get a sense of possibilities.

 

If you read through that bot's thread you'll see how every idea I came up with was shot down, and yet nobody had any solid ideas to work from. So good luck not falling into that same trap, that's why we ended up with one bot at release and not the 3 we were 'aiming' for.

 

However I gotta say if you come up with something similar to my face thing and people are OK with it I will feel slightly burned. After all the time I spent trying to find some comprimise only to be shot down on every single idea. I do believe somewhere in those discussions you'll also find reasons we DIDN'T want a camera bot to begin with.

 

Which I find ironic since now people are wanting one.

Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

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I don't think that's a bad design, the model itself is bad but I assume it's just a draft. But what's the functional difference from the lightbot? besides the lack of a light source. Maybe that's what got in the way of further development, something that makes it unique.

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I do believe somewhere in those discussions you'll also find reasons we DIDN'T want a camera bot to begin with. Which I find ironic since now people are wanting one.

 

I personally don't like the idea of a "camera" at all, though I know others do. I think something like your lanternbot, but a stationary version, would be interesting and viable, though, and that's what I'd like to see rather than anything like the camera heads of T2.

 

Of course, this is all just bouncing around ideas.

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Cant control my inner smart-ass:

 

 

After careful consideration, since this is the first iteration of Thief-like gameplay, TDM will follow the mold of TDP.

 

We will see more mechanical creatures in TDM II: The Metal Mod (crafted to be more like TMA). ETA 2020

 

TDM III will become the horrible 3rd person, rope-arrow free version we all dreaded. ETA 2030 (oh wait... this is could also describe Thievious :unsure: )

 

:laugh:

Edited by nbohr1more

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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Can we call them "Sentries"? since "Cameras" are a bit strange and we dont like that idea. However we do like the idea of some stationary device it seems.

 

This post is crammed full of bad ideas - yes :)

 

I think it would be interesting to have a few variations of a sentry. eg:

A stationary lanternbot-esque listener (larger horn)

A variation which includes a wide-area alarm (if possible), which is trigged by more specific nearby AI's yelping or whatever.

A light-detector of some form, you open a door and too much light leaks out, bam it's ye olde' po-po.

 

I also have a rather awesome mental image of a crossbow-backed lantern bot team-mate. i.e it winds up slowly(steam) but fires a small volley(2-3, not super accurate) of bolts when you're spotted in the light of another nearby bot. Impractical? sure. A little spiderbot with a repeating crossbow for a back? damn it looks good in my head.

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Whatever the idea, i hope the result is crammed full of gears and linkages giving it a very steampunk look, rather just covered with a boring pieces of sheet metal. Like Baddcog's moving linkage on his lantern bot, just more of that kind of detail.

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Whatever the idea, i hope the result is crammed full of gears and linkages giving it a very steampunk look, rather just covered with a boring pieces of sheet metal.

 

Big +1

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Cant control my inner smart-ass:

 

 

After careful consideration, since this is the first iteration of Thief-like gameplay, TDM will follow the mold of TDP.

 

We will see more mechanical creatures in TDM II: The Metal Mod (crafted to be more like TMA). ETA 2020

 

TDM III will become the horrible 3rd person, rope-arrow free version we all dreaded. ETA 2030 (oh wait... this is could also describe Thievious )

 

2035-Very dark mod thats will follow the mold of TDM 1

 

 

Proceed with caution!

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The lantern bot IS great. It's a fine example of how everything can be so much more detailed and the freedom to get creative is fully open.

 

So to just about everything said and the general direction this is taking, I'll

 

Big + 1

 

as well

 

Badcog, hopefully you aren't too disgruntled, because if the Lanternbot is yours you have already contributed a very nice stylistic and quality base which should continue.

 

Nosslak do try to get T2 going. Again, mainly because it's fun, and anyone contributing so much deserves some fun. And, though, a lot of the mechs of the mechs has been described, illustrated and so on... You gotta get in there and deal with these beasts. I, for instance, never have/had much use for fire arrows... except where? In the Metal Age!

 

So, give it a go again and let's try and get you running around Karras' halls.

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That's the old periscope camera from T1, used in Cragscleft prison. I don't think it was actually used in any T2 FMs, although it was available in the assets somewhere.

Yes I used it in T2 in Nightwatch 2 and as said it was in Kingswatch and I'm sure others. All the T1 stuff could be transferred and Dedex also provided them and more which is what I used.
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I tested the lanterbot for just fun in v1.02 and it looked great, although the AI felt a little incomplete. The bot wasn't a serious threat at all: it was slow and quite unreactive. I didn't test if it was improved for 1.03, but I didn't get a feel I'd like to use it in a mission due to its incompleteness.

 

Anyways: if we have a lanternbot, we surely could use a couple of bots of other types as well. Lanternbot is for detection only so a general defence steambot would be essential, even more important than a lanternbot. Maybe with an auto-loading crossbow: ie a ranged attacker with somewhat faster firing rate than your standard guard.

 

I know I would want to use cameras/watcher/sentries in my missions. Any kind of apparatus with similar function as the faces in T1/T2 or surveillance cameras in deus ex. The machine scans a set perimeter, and tries to focus on the player when he is seen. If the player doesn't hide there would be different options, through varieties of sentries: alarm only, alarm and crossbox attack. I would also like to see the possibility of targetting things when the bot spots the player so mappers could do neat things like general compound lockdown upon alarm, more guards get spawned, etc.

 

Anyways, I always vote for more options for the mappers. In a steampunk world there definately should be other types of bots than the lanternbot.

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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That's the old periscope camera from T1, used in Cragscleft prison. I don't think it was actually used in any T2 FMs, although it was available in the assets somewhere.

Right there among the assets; I used it in my Classic Thief Experience mission where no external resources were allowed (I systematically mined the CRFs for leftover stuff not included in the regular game or even the object hierarchy, and there is a whole lot - including things never used in any Thief game).

 

I've always considered it to be better than the T2 metal faces, but then I consider T1 to be superior to T2 in almost every respect. :ph34r:

Edited by Melan

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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How about a microscope type thing turned on its head and mounted on the ceiling? Something like the top one here:

http://www.fairdealt...microscopes.php

 

Adjusted and modified of course, with gears on the side etc.

 

ADDED: In my mind something like this would enhance the idea that its not a "video recording system", but rather an optics based machine. Perhaps the light travels through the lenses an hit a puched hole type photographic plate of what the "camera" expects to see, and if there's an obstruction... bam!

Edited by ocn

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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If you read through that bot's thread you'll see how every idea I came up with was shot down, and yet nobody had any solid ideas to work from. So good luck not falling into that same trap, that's why we ended up with one bot at release and not the 3 we were 'aiming' for.

Yeah, you're probably right. We'd also need more discussion before I may begin as Springheel said in my contibutor thread so that I at least know that it will be used.

 

Whatever the idea, i hope the result is crammed full of gears and linkages giving it a very steampunk look, rather just covered with a boring pieces of sheet metal. Like Baddcog's moving linkage on his lantern bot, just more of that kind of detail.

I barely have any experience designing anything steampunk but if I do end up designing one of these I'll keep this in mind.

 

Much like the T2 watchers, it changes to yellow for alert mode, red for alarm mode. Other than that, it's just a periscope, gear and a hexagonal base using the same sounds as the watcher.

 

post-3727-129479803279_thumb.jpgpost-3727-129479805728_thumb.jpgpost-3727-129479807428_thumb.jpgpost-3727-129479808458_thumb.jpg

That looks really fugly and simplistic. That's really not what I hope a sentry/camera bot will look like in TDM.

 

Nosslak do try to get T2 going. Again, mainly because it's fun, and anyone contributing so much deserves some fun. And, though, a lot of the mechs of the mechs has been described, illustrated and so on... You gotta get in there and deal with these beasts. I, for instance, never have/had much use for fire arrows... except where? In the Metal Age!

 

So, give it a go again and let's try and get you running around Karras' halls.

Yeah, I should probably do that. I should probably make a bug report for TDMs missing joint error as well so that I can play some TDM too (I've been limited to missions without the proguard character so far).

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I personally don't like the idea of a "camera" at all, though I know others do. I think something like your lanternbot, but a stationary version, would be interesting and viable, though, and that's what I'd like to see rather than anything like the camera heads of T2.

 

Of course, this is all just bouncing around ideas.

A very long range light, like those concentration camp holos would be very nice, especially if the AI is slightly modified for instead of looking for the thief if it hears a sound, shine a light on the source of the sound.

 

Imagine, you are running carelessly down the street, guards oblivious (though the guards of TDM are very alert, but assume so) and suddenly from the castle in front a very bright light focuses on you and follows whenever you go (until you go into shadow or behind cover).

 

There is the question of the realism of a camera activated by sound (it shouldn't only be activated by the thief)...

Edited by i30817
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Alright, I'll try to make it more mechanic then. I just found this image the other day and thought it looked awesome.

Yeah, that's a cool basis to start working on I think. Add some gears and valces, Lights plus camera. By default, it would only rotate in predefined angles, but once the player was spotted it would track it in all possible angles.

 

We could also do a rail mounted variant that sort of patrols the ceiling. :) That could become damn tricky for the player.

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