Why do undead never get up naturally after being "killed"

[i30817]

I'm still not sure if corporeal undead get up in the dark mod, but if they did, wouldn't it make sense if they got up on a timer? (and ofcourse be alerted to the maximum value possible).

[rich_is_bored]

At the moment ragdolls (dead/KO'd bodies) are permanent. There is a technical problem where you have a limp body in a nearly infinite number of possible configurations and a finite number of recovery animations.

[Fidcal]

Yes normal dead don't get up but undead can do depending on how the mapper sets them. We already have at least one FM that has this - no two I can think of at least.

[Xarg]

Perhaps he means after you "kill" an undead, it gets back up after a while, highly annoyed and at full alert.

[Fidcal]

I think that might be done with an invisible reversible objective to kill a specific undead then call a script to get its origin and angle and name, spawn a new one, make it a sleeper, give it the origin and angle and name, remove the old one. I don't see how to do that for all the undead in a map though except one by one.

[Sotha]

I think an undying zombie could be done like this:

A zombie.

When the zombie gets killed, it does not spawn a ragdoll, but simply falls down with a dying animation.

Then after a while the zombie HP is restored and it gets up with a getup animation.

 

The downsides would be

• extra work
• unconsistency as this undead body cannot be dragged or carried around.
• Zombies die always with the same dying animation and get up with the same animation

And personally I don't think the original thief games do not need to be copied in every aspect. I'd say it is nicer to have a powerful, difficult to kill undead which stays dead.

 

Fids is correct that it can be done like that, but it is not a beautiful solution: extra work, it would look choppy when the ragdoll is replaced, and the zombie would come back only so many times the mapper bothered to target new teleporters after zombie death. The suggested might work for some kinds of ghosts who could just re-appear a few times after killed.

[i30817]

I see. That ragdoll limitation is quite logical. I suppose a optional mechanism to do it when the player is not directly looking at them would work if it is instantaneous, but the drama would suffer. Though, passing by a "dead" undead and then hearing a roar on your back would be a nice scare.

[OrbWeaver]

I'd rather not have unkillable undead, personally. Undead are challenging enough already, since they are immune to standard techniques like blackjacking, without making them even harder by giving them immortality as well.

[rich_is_bored]

Meh. It's a case of creative body disposal. Toss em out a window or down a well and you can go about your business. It also might be fun to stick them in a heavily patrolled area and wait for the payoff.

[Xarg]

They're not that hard, if it really comes down to it you can deadzone kite them with the sword.

[stumpy]

thief zombies used to explode into meaty chunks so then you knew they were dead. Maybe the heads could detatch on dead zombies and not on zombies pretending to be dead.

[Unwanted Guest]

thief zombies used to explode into meaty chunks so then you knew they were dead. Maybe the heads could detatch on dead zombies and not on zombies pretending to be dead.

 

 

Or have them blacken up.....

[Ishtvan]

There are games where ragdolls get back up using IK animation. GTA IV, for example. We looked for an open source version of this but haven't found anything satisfying so far. Integrating it with the D3 animation code would also be challenging, as some of it is closed and none of it is well documented.

[stumpy]

the motions to get up are roll on back if not on back, sit up, pull feet to bottom, pull hands to bottom, push up with hands and arms, and feet and legs, totter around a bit to get balance, then amble off in a forward motion.

 

the problem bits is for a ragdoll to workout which way up they are laying, and all stages are intteruptable followed by a collapse.

 

Although in an ideal game, you chop a zombies head off, it rolls around on the floor a bit, then it sprouts some legs, and starts to chase the player saying, "I'll bite your legs off".

[Ishtvan]

the motions to get up are roll on back if not on back, sit up, pull feet to bottom, pull hands to bottom, push up with hands and arms, and feet and legs, totter around a bit to get balance, then amble off in a forward motion.

 

the problem bits is for a ragdoll to workout which way up they are laying, and all stages are intteruptable followed by a collapse.

To make that look natural, you really need a model of muscles and skeletons like these full-body IK animation codes have. You also have to deal with what happens if some physical object is blocking them from getting back up. Do they get up partially and then crawl out from under it? (GTA didn't handle that very well, they usually just got up partially, then flopped back down if something was blocking them from getting back up)

[nbohr1more]

While I'm not sold on invincible un-dead either, it might be a cool to give one and extra life for effect.

 

Rather than solve the Ragdoll problem, what about a theatrical approach:

 

1) Spawn a bunch of random func_forcefields under the ragdoll to make it jitter

2) Spawn some (blend) Fog near the body

3) Spawn a transparent version of the un-dead right on top to the ragdoll and have it cycle an "awaken" animation

4) Make the ragdoll fade out and the transparent AI fade in

 

5) (optional) lightning flashes...

 

(I'm sure that is all kinda tricky stuff so don't take that comment as a request or anything... If a scripting and animation expert wants to try it I won't object... )