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Fan Mission: The Transaction by Sotha (2011/03/04)


Sotha

  

76 members have voted

  1. 1. Gameplay: Enjoyment. Fun duration. Smooth flow, ect. Versus Bugs. Frustration, Boredom, framelag

    • Poor
      2
    • Tolerable
      2
    • Good
      16
    • Excellent
      39
    • Near Perfect
      17
  2. 2. Appearance: Visual pleasure, lighting, visual style, deduct bad texturing etc.

    • Poor
      0
    • Tolerable
      1
    • Good
      14
    • Excellent
      45
    • Near Perfect
      16
  3. 3. Story & Text: Story. Text. Briefing. Graphic storytelling

    • Poor
      0
    • Tolerable
      1
    • Good
      10
    • Excellent
      35
    • Near Perfect
      30


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It's my opinion that the bare minimum should be that you can complete Expert without buying anything at the start, with 0 knockouts, and 0 stealth score. I really would love it if every map were completable (though very hard) with 0 stealth score, 0 knockouts, 100% loot, on expert, with no starting gear but your lockpicks.

I hereby grant you, Twitch, the Glenham Tower Climbing Award!

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It's my opinion that the bare minimum should be that you can complete Expert without buying anything at the start, with 0 knockouts, and 0 stealth score. I really would love it if every map were completable (though very hard) with 0 stealth score, 0 knockouts, 100% loot, on expert, with no starting gear but your lockpicks.

Naked runs aren't going to be the mentality of a lot of map makers, just as it wasn't with the old Thief 1 and 2 levels, something I think I'm getting increasingly understanding of.

 

That said I'm still curious as to whether Sotha actually expected anybody to do a no knockout run of this level with stealth score 0.

The church honestly struck me with it's guard placement, puzzle placement and rescue objective as something I was supposed to knock everyone out while I navigated, not something he expected to be ghosted.

 

Was that safe spot in the treasury intentional, Sotha? And if so, what about the rescue with only one KO? I'm generally questioning how much of what I did was even within your expectations of feasibility because of just how difficult this level was to do a solid run of.

I like to record difficult stealth games, and right now you wonderful people are the only ones delivering on that front.

Click here for the crappy channel where that happens.

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It's my opinion that the bare minimum should be that you can complete Expert without buying anything at the start, with 0 knockouts, and 0 stealth score.

 

 

If the mapper makes that possible, then how much easiler does it become when you have equipment and use your tools?

 

I think Sotha's view, and mine, is that if you can get through the map without having to use any of your equipment, then it's too easy. Players shouldn't have to tie one hand behind their back to artificially challenge themselves...the game should be challenging on its own.

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No, I just think the map should be completable naked, but just barely. I'm just fine with 100% loot requiring starting equipment, but doing it naked should require impeccable skill and finding basically every secret for the equipment it contains.

I hereby grant you, Twitch, the Glenham Tower Climbing Award!

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The classic ghosting rules forbid equipment use to do it officially. (They call using equipment 'chemical ghosting') I think ideally an FM should make it very very difficult to do, but still possible after 20+ attempts. So I agree with you to that extent.

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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Interesting discussion here.

 

My philosophy is relatively simple, really.

 

The TDM mission is a sea of light with islands of darkness. The player is supposed to make interesting/exciting dashes from island of darkness to the next one while the guards look the other way.

 

Not all islands are so close that the player can move between them safely. The player is required to occasionally use boats (tools) to move safely. Or they could risk it without tools, but that is very dangerous. Or there might be a clever way to circumvent it, but that is not always guaranteed. There are areas of high risk and low risk. Some calm safe havens, too.

 

A good really good map has it all: calm areas, tough areas, impossible area (without tools). The mappers job is to present as many different and interesting possibilities to the player to freely choose how to proceed. But make sure the decisions have consequences.

 

That's the technical gameplay philosophy. Of course a good map needs a good plot, some gossip and a reason why the player is there. And aesthetics, but that's less important to me than gameplay or plot.

 

Some people will agree with me and some people will disagree. It is okay. There are many ways to play a TDM FM and all the ways are correct. I guess the same applies to FM design, too.

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Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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Interesting discussion here.

 

My philosophy is relatively simple, really.

 

The TDM mission is a sea of light with islands of darkness. The player is supposed to make interesting/exciting dashes from island of darkness to the next one while the guards look the other way.

 

Not all islands are so close that the player can move between them safely. The player is required to occasionally use boats (tools) to move safely. Or they could risk it without tools, but that is very dangerous. Or there might be a clever way to circumvent it, but that is not always guaranteed. There are areas of high risk and low risk. Some calm safe havens, too.

 

A good really good map has it all: calm areas, tough areas, impossible area (without tools). The mappers job is to present as many different and interesting possibilities to the player to freely choose how to proceed. But make sure the decisions have consequences.

 

That's the technical gameplay philosophy. Of course a good map needs a good plot, some gossip and a reason why the player is there. And aesthetics, but that's less important to me than gameplay or plot.

 

Some people will agree with me and some people will disagree. It is okay. There are many ways to play a TDM FM and all the ways are correct. I guess the same applies to FM design, too.

I'm tempted to make a joke about how this illuminates on why your maps are unique, so I will.

I have to say that your maps are the only ones that challenge me, Sotha, but in this case I'd say that there almost wasn't enough boats, and your islands were far too small with far too many noise traps in that ocean of light.

 

Damned solid concept, though, and I love the optional objective.

 

I'm actually still curious if you actually expected anybody to bother doing what I did, though.

Edited by V-Man339

I like to record difficult stealth games, and right now you wonderful people are the only ones delivering on that front.

Click here for the crappy channel where that happens.

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  • 5 years later...

I apologize for the necro post but I am unsure where I should post this if not here...

While playing through the mission and reaching the Builder's temple area, there is a puzzle lock machine that makes an appearance here in TP4 (and is also used in TP1) where I noticed a pretty strange thing about the glass on the machine. I'm sure everyone here knows exactly which machine I am talking about, but just in case It is the apparatus that has several gears behind a glass pane and several levers that control rods extending to the gears. You have to be able to see the gears to manipulate the rods using the levers so that all of the gears can spin freely. And there is the problem, I cannot see the gears...

I'll post a pic to better demonstrate what I am talking about, but it seems that the reflection that gets rendered in the glass is a green blur. Its not so terrible in the light, but when snuffing the nearby torches so I could more safely toggle the levers and solve the puzzle lock, the green blur becomes opaque and I can no longer see the gears inside the machine at all.

transactionbug.thumb.jpg.0c73177413b7b52c50ff4dcd3f355888.jpg

I am playing on a Windows10 pc, core i9, 2080super and currently using the Dark Mod 2.09 beta5, but the same thing happens on a fresh install of the 2.08 release using the default config. I guess the effect could be intentional? I am unsure so I thought it best to ask here if anyone knows or has encountered this before. I am new here so all apologies again if I am posting improperly in any way or have not included all of the relevant information.

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  • 3 months later...

There seems to be a regression in this mission with newer versions of TDM, where the

Spoiler

enemy that attacks you in the shop now comes with full health, rather than 1HP, as was the design of the author.

 

I was watching a Youtube play-through of this the other day and the host mentioned this; I decided to check it out for myself, and yep...

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  • 9 months later...

Forced combat is a hard no for me.

My missions:           Stand-alone                                                      Duncan Lynch series                              

                                      Down and Out on Newford Road              the Factory Heist

                                                                                                  A House Call

                                                                                                  The House of deLisle                                                                                                  

                              

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On 3/27/2022 at 10:23 AM, thebigh said:

Forced combat is a hard no for me.

For me too, but not really much combat with the skeleton in the bookstore, not very skilled, normally I kill him with 1-2 hits with the sword. No more combats in this mision, but a lot of stealth and some knockouts.

Edited by Zerg Rush

Sys Specs Laptop Lenovo V145 15AST, AMD A9- 9425 Radeon R5 - 5 cores 3,1 GHz  RAM 8Gb, GPU 1+2 Gb -Win10 64 v21H2

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I just object to forced combat on principle. Even if I win the combat I find myself with zero interest in continuing the level.

My missions:           Stand-alone                                                      Duncan Lynch series                              

                                      Down and Out on Newford Road              the Factory Heist

                                                                                                  A House Call

                                                                                                  The House of deLisle                                                                                                  

                              

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On 3/29/2022 at 12:17 AM, thebigh said:

I just object to forced combat on principle. Even if I win the combat I find myself with zero interest in continuing the level.

Well, the skeleton in the shop is really a bad surprise, but on the other hand needed by the story. A compromise could be, that he disappears after killing the librarian, this would not change the storyline.
Other than this, I find the mission flawless and interesting.

Sys Specs Laptop Lenovo V145 15AST, AMD A9- 9425 Radeon R5 - 5 cores 3,1 GHz  RAM 8Gb, GPU 1+2 Gb -Win10 64 v21H2

Favorite online apps you may like too 😉

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One problem I had when replaying this mission recently was that fighting the skeleton in the shop would sometimes attract the attention of the guards on the street, so I had to quickload two or three times just for that opening sequence. And also the guards walking through the rain and thunder don't seem to have their hearing appropriately handicapped, so the player is at an unfair disadvantage generally when sneaking through those noisy environments.

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No excuse is too cheap if it gets you to re-play a fine mission like this, and these recent comments provided just that 😄

Playing in 2.10 I also got the far-too-hard-to-kill skeleton in the bookstore (had to cheat, actually), also I agree that finding a way to reduce AI's sound sensitivity when there is ambient noise would restore some needed realism. But all in all I liked the challenge of navigating around the super-sensitive, torch-bearing city guard.

Also,

Spoiler

after releasing the prisoner she just kept spinning around in the cage. No matter how I tried to interact with her (short of inflicting damage), she would turn around and just stand-walk in there. Maybe it's a 2.10 artifact?

A unique mission with several nice touches.

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